Van Speed limit ?
Discussion
SS2. said:
They would be regarded as either passenger vehicles (ie Land Rover with seats) or dual-purpose vehicles (Navara, Warrior, 'commercial' Land Rover, etc) courtesy of having 4wd, assuming that they have an unladen weight of less than 2,040kg, of course.
And neither passenger vehicles nor dual-purpose vehicles are subject to special speed limits for their class.
So the unladen weight.. If on my pictures above of the Dispatch, is empty is it 70mph? As at 70mph in an empty van you'll stop quicker than the passenger vehicle type with 7 people, seats etc inside it..And neither passenger vehicles nor dual-purpose vehicles are subject to special speed limits for their class.
JonnyFive said:
So the unladen weight.. If on my pictures above of the Dispatch, is empty is it 70mph? As at 70mph in an empty van you'll stop quicker than the passenger vehicle type with 7 people, seats etc inside it..
Unless the Dispatch is car derived, then it is a goods vehicle and the lower speed limits will apply (irrespective whether it is laden or not).And note that the weight criteria for a car derived van is 2,000kg laden, unlike DPVs whose criteria is unladen weight.
Gwaredd said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Gwaredd said:
Chris993C4 said:
Hence why Mk4 Escort vans have an otherwise pointless 2" window behind the B-pillar 
No, as it's car derived Anyhow, like I said. If the front end looks like the car (Polo, Escort, Corsa etc) then as long as the GVW is under 2t, then it's car derived.
A. There is one (small) group of vans which have the same speed limits are cars by virtue of the definitions in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act of 1984. These are vans that are both derived from a car chassis and also have a maximum laden weight of no more than 2 tonnes. This means that the weight of the vehicle and the payload it is designed to be able to carry when added together do not exceed 2 tonnes. The van design must be a derivative of a car body, it is not sufficient that it looks similar to a particular car.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanageme...
Now, it's interesting you mention a ford escort.
Look at the date .... 1984.......ford were fitting big plastic bumpers to the escort, cars, vans, and estates, do you remember that they brought out a new version of van, it was an estate with no rear seats and no side windows ?
That was the car derived van (after the new rules), not the van you mention.
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Saturday 12th March 01:03
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Saturday 12th March 01:23
Nigel Worc's said:
Now, it's interesting you mention a ford escort.
Look at the date .... 1984.......ford were fitting big plastic bumpers to the escort, cars, vans, and estates, do you remember that they brought out a new version of van, it was an estate with no rear seats and no side windows ?
That was the car derived van (after the new rules), not the van you mention.
The Escort Combi IIRC?Look at the date .... 1984.......ford were fitting big plastic bumpers to the escort, cars, vans, and estates, do you remember that they brought out a new version of van, it was an estate with no rear seats and no side windows ?
That was the car derived van (after the new rules), not the van you mention.
Nigel Worc's said:
The van design must be a derivative of a car body, it is not sufficient that it looks similar to a particular car.
If this is correct, then there's a whole raft of vans that aren't car derived. For starters;Vauxhall Combi
VW Caddy
Bedford Astramax
Ford Courier
Fiat Fiorino
Renault Extra
And that means we've been breaking the speed limit for years!
Edited by Gwaredd on Monday 14th March 16:52
987cay said:
I hava a seat inca van, same as a vw caddy, which as far as I am aware is not based on any car.The V5 describes it as a car derived van. J
Its taxation class does not necessarily have any bearing as to whether a vehicle is subject to special speed limits.Edited by SS2. on Monday 14th March 14:01
Johnnytheboy said:
They're early-90s-Polo based, trust me.
This is true, but the Escort van is based on an Escort, yet only the Escort Combi is classed as car derived apparently. If this is true, then the Caddy/Inca isn't car derived, only the Golf van is?What's being said is that by simply bolting a large box on the rear of a car body (ala Caddy, Courier, Extra etc) doesn't automatically make it a car derived van, just a van, whereas a clio van, Golf van, Astra van is just an estate car with the windows panelled instead of glass & is a car derived van.
One thing for certain is that this law is becoming as clear as mud!
Gwaredd said:
What's being said is that by simply bolting a large box on the rear of a car body (ala Caddy, Courier, Extra etc) doesn't automatically make it a car derived van, just a van, whereas a clio van, Golf van, Astra van is just an estate car with the windows panelled instead of glass & is a car derived van.
I'm still not sure where that leaves a Berlingo which for safety reasons was probably designed as a car but mostly sold with everything stripped out as a van.Must admit I have stopped contributing to these threads, of course you might ask "why?"
4 pages on this thread, 104, or maybe 404, even 1004 pages on all the other threads put together and we still haven't dealt with the basic issue regarding the situation discussed in very old threads whereby an individual gets chucked the keys to something by a hire company or their gaffer or whoever.
How do they KNOW for certain what the speed limit is for that vehicle unless it's clearly a car or a truck, but is one of these "grey area" vehicles, and how do we fix that?
Yes the rules are all written down, and technically when digging down there isn't any "grey area" and we still can't even agree here, or understand exactly why and what and when with a clear written one liner that's easy to remember and apply, other than to assume the worst case that something isn't car derived. For example if you happen to know the silhouette of an Opel Corsa car then that's an easy example, hatchback silhoutte, car derived, Corsa front big box on back, not car derived. but some obscure low volume vehicle of whatever provenance from whenever way back?
How would you KNOW????
It's even got to the situation where the Powers That Be have issued clarifications in various places, and updated them and updated them, that should tell them it's confusing.
As people have pointed out on this thread, and before, you can have vehicls with identical weights and running gear subject to arbitrarily different limits. In fact you can have vehicle with higher permitted limits where that vehicle is dynamically less stable than other vehicles subject to lower limits.
It... is... not... logical... Captain. :/Spock:
The whole situation needs binning and start again.
In the meantime, :begins to regret consequences of saying this: will somebody please start a FAQ with examples and photos to explain the "logic" such as it is????????
4 pages on this thread, 104, or maybe 404, even 1004 pages on all the other threads put together and we still haven't dealt with the basic issue regarding the situation discussed in very old threads whereby an individual gets chucked the keys to something by a hire company or their gaffer or whoever.
How do they KNOW for certain what the speed limit is for that vehicle unless it's clearly a car or a truck, but is one of these "grey area" vehicles, and how do we fix that?
Yes the rules are all written down, and technically when digging down there isn't any "grey area" and we still can't even agree here, or understand exactly why and what and when with a clear written one liner that's easy to remember and apply, other than to assume the worst case that something isn't car derived. For example if you happen to know the silhouette of an Opel Corsa car then that's an easy example, hatchback silhoutte, car derived, Corsa front big box on back, not car derived. but some obscure low volume vehicle of whatever provenance from whenever way back?
How would you KNOW????
It's even got to the situation where the Powers That Be have issued clarifications in various places, and updated them and updated them, that should tell them it's confusing.
As people have pointed out on this thread, and before, you can have vehicls with identical weights and running gear subject to arbitrarily different limits. In fact you can have vehicle with higher permitted limits where that vehicle is dynamically less stable than other vehicles subject to lower limits.
It... is... not... logical... Captain. :/Spock:
The whole situation needs binning and start again.
In the meantime, :begins to regret consequences of saying this: will somebody please start a FAQ with examples and photos to explain the "logic" such as it is????????
Gwaredd said:
Nigel Worc's said:
The van design must be a derivative of a car body, it is not sufficient that it looks similar to a particular car.
If this is correct, then there's a whole raft of vans that aren't car derived. For starters;Vauxhall Combi
VW Caddy
Bedford Astramax
Ford Courier
Fiat Fiorino
Renault Extra
And that means we've been breaking the speed limit for years!
Edited by Gwaredd on Monday 14th March 16:52
I agree it's stupid, and I agree that we've been breaking the limits for years, I did too, I drove a vauxhall combo van at normal speeds.
It has only become an issue due to scamera partnerships, the Police as ever generally have more sense.
I know of two cases, that stood ,where a van (transit style) had been converted to motorhome but the V5C hadn't been updated, somebody else on here had knowledge of one case that was dropped.
I know of several cases where people have been convicted with vans that are over the weight limit (even when the vans were quite small, expert/doblo size .
I don't know of anyone who has been ticketed in the what we descibe as "car derived vans", whether we think they actually fall into that catergory or not.
I only became aware of these rules last year when I looked into returning to using a van for work ...... and asked for advice on here.
F i F said:
In the meantime, :begins to regret consequences of saying this: will somebody please start a FAQ with examples and photos to explain the "logic" such as it is????????
ISTR that Tvrgit tried that (on another subject), only for one of the usual suspects to instantly derail / hi-jack the thread with their all-too-familiar inaccurate ramblings, misinformation and totally irrelevant 'contributions'. SS2. said:
ISTR that Tvrgit tried that (on another subject), only for one of the usual suspects to instantly derail / hi-jack the thread with their all-too-familiar inaccurate ramblings, misinformation and totally irrelevant 'contributions'.
I dont know - I thought he'd done quite well and some interesting questions about how things were actually implemented came upSame as in this thread really. On the one hand there's the law. On the other how it's enforced
Nigel Worc's said:
I know of two cases, that stood ,where a van (transit style) had been converted to motorhome but the V5C hadn't been updated, somebody else on here had knowledge of one case that was dropped.
As previous, the recorded taxation class of a vehicle is unlikely to be particlulary relevant as to whether a vehicle should be subject to special speed limits for its class.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff