Van Speed limit ?

[F i F]

Richard C said:

No-one has yet mnentioned Dual Purpose Vehicles. Which Merc Vito's with rea windows and seats co,mply with - hence 70 mile/h on DC. Many police do not know this.

I wondered when you'd pop up on the thread.

One thing I noticed a long time back when trawling through a Vito Dualiner options list was that a change to the specification of the rear passenger seat mounting would change the designation of whether the vehicle was classed as DPV and thus affect permitted speed limits. all done in very small print and no doubt only provided to the purchaser and not drivers nor purchasers of used vehicles

I can't remember the specifics of the optional modification now, and it's not available on-line, but this is the sort of stupidity which brings the law into disrespect.

I have sympathy with the view expressed by mp3manager that it's surprising how many out there, and on here, don't know or understand some of the... most... basic... bits... of... information... about the legalities regarding their vehicles and the roads, but this aspect of this particular law and the way it is being interpreted is no longer fit for purpose in my opinion.

For a driver who has a regular vehicle that they drive every day then it's beholden upon them to figure out the legalities, limits, weights etc, doesn't take long if you do it right, and once you've done it then it's finished.

But as RichardC says, the police out on the roads often don't know, casual drivers who drive lots of vehicles often don't have the time or resource to find out. The only people who do have the time are the SCPs who can ping the vehicle on the off chance and then sit back at their leisure in the back office, call up the video and speed recording, call up the vehicle details on the database, and assuming the info is correct make a decision to proceed with a prosecution or not.

[saaby93]

F i F said:

But as RichardC says, the police out on the roads often don't know, casual drivers who drive lots of vehicles often don't have the time or resource to find out. The only people who do have the time are the SCPs who can ping the vehicle on the off chance and then sit back at their leisure in the back office, call up the video and speed recording, call up the vehicle details on the database, and assuming the info is correct make a decision to proceed with a prosecution or not.

Ignorance is no defence
Don't forget too that policing has discretion with enforcement so if a van looks like a car, is travelling at the same speed as a car, and is not affecting anyone, it's unlikely enforcement will be bothered (cameras excepted)

[F i F]

saaby93 said:

Ignorance is no defence
Don't forget too that policing has discretion with enforcement so if a van looks like a car, is travelling at the same speed as a car, and is not affecting anyone, it's unlikely enforcement will be bothered (cameras excepted)

I refer you to my first post on this thread.

Plus you asked earlier, how can an Astramax not be car derived?
When is an Astravan an Astravan or morphs into an Astramax?

Astravan
Astravan
Pic titled as an Astravan. Probably an Astramax
Astra Estate
Astramax but in reality a shed.
Astramax

Current range

I think I know which limit applied to each of these vehicles, but I reckon a vast quantity of motoring public would say that all except the right hand two in the last link were car derived vans and would get points for so thinking. Or?

[Gwaredd]

Likewise the Combo


Corsavan


Corsa


Both are derivatives of the car but in very different ways.

As for the windows in the side argument. Years ago, I was tooling along the A303 at 80mph in a Talbot Express panel van. I got stopped for speeding & the quickly learned that I was supposed to be doing 50mph instead of 60mph, so this meant a trip to court for a ban instead of 3 point & a fine.

My solicitor dig some digging & it turned out that if we had windows (or window even, as long as it was drivers side)fitted in the side of the van, it would have no longer been subject to van speed limits, regardless if it had seats fitted or not. A strange quirk in the law & I wonder if it still exists. This was about 17 years ago mind.

I got 5 points, £250 fine & a whopping solicitors bill.

[SS2.]

Gwaredd said:

My solicitor dig some digging & it turned out that if we had windows (or window even, as long as it was drivers side)fitted in the side of the van, it would have no longer been subject to van speed limits, regardless if it had seats fitted or not. A strange quirk in the law & I wonder if it still exists. This was about 17 years ago mind.

I got 5 points, £250 fine & a whopping solicitors bill.

I wouldn't dwell on it - for it to have qualified as a 'dual purpose vehicle' (and hence not subject to lower speed limits), it would have needed rear seats as well as the extra glass.

Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 16th March 12:29

[saaby93]

SS2. said:

I wouldn't dwell on it - for it to have qualified as a 'dual purpose vehicle' (and hence not subject to lower speed limits), it would have needed rear seats as well as the extra glass.

Does that include custom and practice?
AFAIK if you have one slat of a window behind the drivers seat that often gives you the higher limits and reduced tolls
How does that work?

[F i F]

[SS2.]

F i F said:

Quite..

[saaby93]

Bill can you tidy this one up too and add it to the other one already locked?

[F i F]

To be honest I don't think this is a good thread for a FAQ, tidying it up will make it read very badly.

This subject and probably the dual carriageway subject also are best served by a definitive opening statement of the position , followed by some clarification discussion if the community feels the first post needs it, and then the final tidy up and lockdown.

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of it saabs, just my 2p.

I might get the chance next week to have a go at this van one next week.

[saaby93]

I like this thread as it has the government advice

m8rky said:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanageme...
As above,the van that most often catches people out is the Transit Connect as it is not classed as car derived and is bound by the lower limit.

and photos showing issues of customary interpretation

[F i F]

But if we include all that sort of stuff in the definitive thread?

[saaby93]

F i F said:

But if we include all that sort of stuff in the definitive thread?

ok I'll reply but I'm not having you saying I'm prattling on
I think the definitive thread should have
a) the question
b) the legal stuff
c) the governement advice ( which may differ from b)
d) what the above means in pratice
e) those photos of usage and interpretation

[F i F]

Agreed.

Edited to add, off you go, make a start then and the rest of us will chip in later.

Edited by F i F on Tuesday 29th March 10:49

[Bill]

F i F said:

To be honest I don't think this is a good thread for a FAQ, tidying it up will make it read very badly.

I was just thinking that. A fresh start with the relevant info and a link to this thread is probably best.

ETA And despite what you might think from my post count (What was that about prattling on?) I'm not about that much so if you want something sorting click the report button to ask.

Edited by Bill on Tuesday 29th March 13:49