Drink Driving - a question!

[Smart Mart]

pistonchris said:

Read the whole story and hope you do end up with the kids it would be better and safer for them.
But can not help but feel sorry for her daughter who will still live with her and in away lose her brother and sister

That has crossed my mind, pistonchris, but there's no way on earth that I would ever stop her daughter seeing her twin brothers. In fact, it could work out really well as her daughter goes to a school literally 100 yards up the road - she could call in on the way home from school whenever she wanted (and I was there) and I'd happily give her a lift home.

Anyhowe the only news today is that I found the solicitor that dealt with me five years ago re PRO and Access rights and she is meeting me next Wednesday as the initial step towards beginning residency proceedings.

[pistonchris]

Smart Mart said:

pistonchris said:

Read the whole story and hope you do end up with the kids it would be better and safer for them.
But can not help but feel sorry for her daughter who will still live with her and in away lose her brother and sister

That has crossed my mind, pistonchris, but there's no way on earth that I would ever stop her daughter seeing her twin brothers. In fact, it could work out really well as her daughter goes to a school literally 100 yards up the road - she could call in on the way home from school whenever she wanted (and I was there) and I'd happily give her a lift home.

Anyhowe the only news today is that I found the solicitor that dealt with me five years ago re PRO and Access rights and she is meeting me next Wednesday as the initial step towards beginning residency proceedings.

Hope all go's well when you meet he solicitor.
And it is good to hear that the daughter will still be part of her siblings lifes.

[Victor McDade]

OP,

If her being convicted for drink driving helps your residency application then I hope her blood/breath alcohol reading comes back as high as possible.

What exactly is driving her to alcohol? It can't just be the bf (or now ex bf) - does she have any underlining psychological issues?

[Smart Mart]

Yes she has, she was abused by her stepdad for more than a decade from the age of five to fifteen. It has obviously impacted greatly on her ability to form "normal" relationships though she has had four years of counselling just after she went to the police about him.

That said, I met her in 1999 and she only ever drank alcohol at Christmas and occasionally on nights out. It was the relationship she had after we split up (with an alcoholic and drink/driving banned man) that scuffed everything up.

[Smart Mart]

Brief update.

Ex phoned up today to get my postcode for a letter to be sent. Turns out that Social Services have been in touch following the "drink drive" incident and been round to see the kids being that it was the second time alcohol had played a part in an incident when she had the children with her (remember the stair fall?).

She said they've been round and met her, the boys and her daughter and that SS are going to be monitoring her. She's cheesed off that they have done a report on her and will be sending one to me, her daughter's dad and both the respective schools, hence the request for a postcode.

Hopefully the report will get here by Wednesday when my appointment is with the solicitor - that will give the brief more idea as to the seriousness of the situation although I may be clutching at straws. I'm relieved that SS are getting involved because (selfishly) it takes pressure off me to make that decision.

Edited by Smart Mart on Sunday 3rd April 17:43

[Andehh]

I have all the respect in the world for you mate, stick with it! Best of luck

[davepoth]

Smart Mart said:

Hopefully the report will get here by Wednesday when my appointment is with the solicitor - that will give the brief more idea as to the seriousness of the situation although I may be clutching at straws. I'm relieved that SS are getting involved because (selfishly) it takes pressure off me to make that decision.

Edited by Smart Mart on Sunday 3rd April 17:43

If you wanted to push for custody at this point it will certainly help that SS are now involved and are not happy.

[Smart Mart]

And the boys informed me when I rang a few minutes ago that mum said that the ex and her had split up when they went to school this morning but tonight, she told them they were back together again.

I fking give up. I ask anyone to say you should treat ten year old kids this way. Sorry, this is going off the original topic so I might just stick to the drink driving stuff from now on...

[m8rky]

Smart Mart said:

And the boys informed me when I rang a few minutes ago that mum said that the ex and her had split up when they went to school this morning but tonight, she told them they were back together again.

I fking give up. I ask anyone to say you should treat ten year old kids this way. Sorry, this is going off the original topic so I might just stick to the drink driving stuff from now on...

Its amazing how thoughtless some people are,kids need stability and they worry about stuff like that.I have a similar issue with my ex.I just like feel banging there heads together sometimes and telling her and her new hubby to grow up.

[Ms Demeanor]

I don't think they have bailed her for 2 months to get their own back calculations report. Can you tell me if she gave a blood sample rather than breath? That would be the only normal reason for the delay at this stage.

The police will normally just charge (if she was over the limit) and then leave it to her to get a back calculation report to show that she was under the limit at the time she was driving and it was only the post driving drink that took her over....tell me more..

If she blew between 40-50 in breath they will offer an alternative blood or urine sample to double. That could explain it.

[Smart Mart]

Ms Demeanor said:

I don't think they have bailed her for 2 months to get their own back calculations report. Can you tell me if she gave a blood sample rather than breath? That would be the only normal reason for the delay at this stage.

The police will normally just charge (if she was over the limit) and then leave it to her to get a back calculation report to show that she was under the limit at the time she was driving and it was only the post driving drink that took her over....tell me more..

If she blew between 40-50 in breath they will offer an alternative blood or urine sample to double. That could explain it.

Hi Ms Demeanor and thanks for your post.

I can't be 100% sure whether it was blood or breath but I'm pretty sure she said that the reading was 70+ when I asked her at the time which would suggest a breath test, would it not? She did say that she was twice over the limit which again suggests it would be a breath test but doesn't explain the delay.

Solicitors appointment at 10am this morning.

[joewilliams]

Good luck

[SteveScooby]

I've bailed people pending back calculations before.

[SteveScooby]

I've bailed people pending back calculations before.

[Ms Demeanor]

Smart Mart said:

Ms Demeanor said:

I don't think they have bailed her for 2 months to get their own back calculations report. Can you tell me if she gave a blood sample rather than breath? That would be the only normal reason for the delay at this stage.

The police will normally just charge (if she was over the limit) and then leave it to her to get a back calculation report to show that she was under the limit at the time she was driving and it was only the post driving drink that took her over....tell me more..

If she blew between 40-50 in breath they will offer an alternative blood or urine sample to double. That could explain it.

Hi Ms Demeanor and thanks for your post.

I can't be 100% sure whether it was blood or breath but I'm pretty sure she said that the reading was 70+ when I asked her at the time which would suggest a breath test, would it not? She did say that she was twice over the limit which again suggests it would be a breath test but doesn't explain the delay.

Solicitors appointment at 10am this morning.

It would suggest breath but if she blew twice the limit they would normally charge straight away. She will need to get a phamacologists report if she wants to show that it was only the post driving drink that took her over the limit - but the figures will need to stack up otherwise the calculations will show that she is fibbing about how much she drank after driving and the experts duty os to the court and not the person who is paying them....Braxton Reynolds - Exeter is good as doing these type of reports.

[StottyZr]

I've just read through all this. Unfortunate situation you've got here mate, I hope it all works out for you.

[CharlieTwo]

Ms Demeanor said:

The police will normally just charge (if she was over the limit) and then leave it to her to get a back calculation report to show that she was under the limit at the time she was driving and it was only the post driving drink that took her over....

While the onus is on the defendant to rebut the presumption that the reading at the station is not less than it would have been at the time of driving, the Police will have their own back calculations done - the MG DD/D Alcohol Technical Defence form exists precisely for that purpose. I have never known a charge without doing so where the defence has been raised, though other forces may have different policies.

Obviously the defendant is entitled to have their own done using the part of the sample they are given.

[andy400]

Smart Mart said:

The boys' school is about half a mile away but she always drives

Just as shocking as the DD in my opinion. She clearly needs a wake up call - a ban might help.

[Ms Demeanor]

CharlieTwo said:

Ms Demeanor said:

The police will normally just charge (if she was over the limit) and then leave it to her to get a back calculation report to show that she was under the limit at the time she was driving and it was only the post driving drink that took her over....

While the onus is on the defendant to rebut the presumption that the reading at the station is not less than it would have been at the time of driving, the Police will have their own back calculations done - the MG DD/D Alcohol Technical Defence form exists precisely for that purpose. I have never known a charge without doing so where the defence has been raised, though other forces may have different policies.

Obviously the defendant is entitled to have their own done using the part of the sample they are given.

In 20 odd years I have only ever seen the police/cps get their own back calculations report in order to contradict what a defendant is saying after a defendant has been charged and has got their own report done.

It obviously incurs a huge cost in advance of axctually knowing whether or not a defendant is going to actually try and run the defence. It also requires precise information in relation to height/weight/age/timings and amounts of alcohol consumed. I agree that they should and clever officers do take down all this info and make a defendant "pin their sails to the mast" so to speak in terms of exactly how much drunk and when.. But in my experience they rarely do. I have sat through numerous interviews where clients have raised this defence and have not been asked exactly what they drank after driving or when they drank it - leaving it completely up to a defendant to have a good think about these issues in the cold light of day before instructing the expert.. It maybe different in other force areas but I cover the whoile country and like I said I have never/ever had a back calculation report served on me prior to me getting one first.

You are confusing things re the defendant being given their own portion of the sample... This only happens when it is a marginal sample and they take blood to do a double check. In this case it seems they only took a breath sample - so the defendant wont be getting a portion of that!

[Smart Mart]

Just an update.

The Social Services report arrived through my letterbox today. The social worker's recommendation at the bottom reads...

"At this stage there appears to be no role for children's services. The children are achieving academically and appear to have a wide range of family networks around.

However this is the second alcohol related incident that has left the children in a vulnerable situation. Having discussed this with my manager, it has been decided that if there is another referral received related to irresponsible drinking behaviour, Child Protection procedures will be considered."

The report is twelve pages long and has several inaccuracies; for instance, it says she has a stable relationship with her present boyfriend, it also says she disputes having fractured her cheekbone when she fell down the stairs (so how does she say she did it?), she never drinks when the kids are at home (well I have my two every Friday and Saturday and her daughter goes to her dads every other weekend so drinking time would be two nights a fortnight) and it also says she has no financial concerns either (dhe went bankrupt last year).

Finally it says that it is the police who are using an alcohol unit back calculation system to ascertain whether she was drunk at the time she crashed her car.

Until I speak to my solicitor early next week, it would seem there is little chance of anything further happening until she blows up again which will happen at some point. I guess at this stage I have to hope and pray that the kids will be all right when that happens. Until then, there's nothing more I can do.