Drink Driving - a question!
Discussion
gruffalo said:
You are a bigger man than I am!
I am.... I'm 6'4" and 22 stone... 
Hard as it is, if I go on now it would be ignoring the fact that they love their mum and dad equally and that it might rip them apart having to leave their mum, who they've been with for a decade, to join me.
They go to a secondary school 100 yards up the road from me next September so in all reality, I'll see more of them now. I just have to hope and pray that their mum doesn't get into another relationship soon otherwise...
Plotloss said:
Mart, are you going for sole residence with contact for mum or joint residence, in equal or majority you proportions?
If it's the latter, lack of legal aid may not be all that much of an issue (though mediation wise irrespective) and self repping isn't as daunting as it sounds in the family court. Plenty of people out there to help and Mckenzies via FNF are plentiful and significantly lower cost than a brief.
The boys views will be given a LOT of weight at the age they are.
Best of luck with it, sounds a bit s
t sandwiches, no bread all round really.
Hi Plotloss,If it's the latter, lack of legal aid may not be all that much of an issue (though mediation wise irrespective) and self repping isn't as daunting as it sounds in the family court. Plenty of people out there to help and Mckenzies via FNF are plentiful and significantly lower cost than a brief.
The boys views will be given a LOT of weight at the age they are.
Best of luck with it, sounds a bit s
t sandwiches, no bread all round really.I went for sole residence five years ago but only got a Parental Responsibility Order plus stated contact (which she has always kept her word on).
I was going for sole again but with little chance of winning sole, I thought about going for joint residence instead. However I might leave it as it is though as the SS reports aren't as damning as I had thought they might be. This is obviously good in the fact that they assess the kids as safe but weakens my case should it get to court.
She is more compos mentis now than for months... no bloke, no drinking either at present. However one tends to follow the other so might get the solicitor to put things on the back burner for a few months just in case.
Derek Smith said:
With the attiitude you are showing I think the kids will be alright.
If I can put a suggestion: keep on keeping records. It always helps. If you are asked why you kept them, you can always say lots of people told you to.
All suggestions received with thanks, Derek.If I can put a suggestion: keep on keeping records. It always helps. If you are asked why you kept them, you can always say lots of people told you to.
One of the best pieces of advice I was given at the start (from an internet forum, funnily enough) was to write everything down and not rely years later on your memory. Great advice and has proved invaluable since.
Plotloss said:
Understood.
What is possible and what may be a good course of action is an SRO but undefined.
'Twins will reside with mother AND father as agreed' type thing.
Orders are granted on this vague a basis which could provide all parties an 'insurance' (st word but can't think of a better one) should things go back to being a little more unsettled.
Thank you, that might be worth considering. What is possible and what may be a good course of action is an SRO but undefined.
'Twins will reside with mother AND father as agreed' type thing.
Orders are granted on this vague a basis which could provide all parties an 'insurance' (s
t word but can't think of a better one) should things go back to being a little more unsettled.gruffalo said:
Further to this write every thing down on paper, have it witnessed and dated and place in a sealed envelope and sign across the seal, then if it does get messy the evidence can get opened in court, having been writen at the time of the act this and not provided from recolection. This gives it much more weight with any court.
Thank you gruffalo!! 
Bit of a setback today if I'm honest.
One of the things that gave me hope that she has changed for good was the insistence that her on/off relationship with her b/f was over for good. Even in the report, it states that she has taken steps to move on.
Sadly though, went past her house tonight on the way home and his car was parked in her drive. Have to say I have lowered myself to send two snotty (not abusive, just snotty) text messages tonight but no reply.
Sometimes it seems that doing things the right way isn't always the right way.
I think it looks almost inevitable that I go for shared residence now, hopefully awarded based on past reports of constant relationship upheavals.
Thanks again Plotloss (and others of course) for your kind advice.
One of the things that gave me hope that she has changed for good was the insistence that her on/off relationship with her b/f was over for good. Even in the report, it states that she has taken steps to move on.
Sadly though, went past her house tonight on the way home and his car was parked in her drive. Have to say I have lowered myself to send two snotty (not abusive, just snotty) text messages tonight but no reply.
Sometimes it seems that doing things the right way isn't always the right way.
I think it looks almost inevitable that I go for shared residence now, hopefully awarded based on past reports of constant relationship upheavals.
Thanks again Plotloss (and others of course) for your kind advice.
Still going here, ploughing a lonely furrow through life's choppy seas.
Went on holiday with the twins two weeks ago to Exmouth and had a great time. Driving back up the M5 and got a phone call from twins sister saying she wanted me to keep hold of the boys for an extra few days. Burbled a half-hearted explanation but she was upset so didn't get a lot of details.
Turned out that her (and the boys) mum had got blind drunk, threatened to harm herself and when the ambulance was called, threatened them too hence the police came to arrest her. After the police let her go, she basically reached rock bottom and admitted to being an alcoholic. She went to the doctors and she got a plan from him outlining potential support groups etc and a pathway forward to deal with problems. Ended up having the boys back that night after all.
Been all quiet since with lots of sheepish looks from her when I go to pick up or drop the boys off. Apparently that last debacle was due to her finally splitting up with the ex-boyfriend although I'll believe it when I see it.
Today, a turn for the worse.
Dropped the boys home after football training and went home when I got a call from their sister saying that their mum hadn't picked her up from school. Eventually her mum (who claimed to be ill) turned up and picked her up an hour late after being asleep apparently.
Anyway got another phone call about 45 minutes later from her daughter who said that the boys mum was refusing to make them tea and just wanted to be left alone. She asked me to come over and have the boys stay over tonight and take them to school tomorrow morning as she (the daughter) has a GCSE Maths exam tomorrow and needed to revise and obviously looking after two ten year olds, bathing them, feeding them and putting them to bed was going to be tricky (fair enough!!).
Boys are over here now, safe and warm and fed and bathed. Yet I feel so helpless as a dad without custody because this cannot go on. Their mother has admitted to being an alcoholic and is currently on anti depressants which apparently will have some side effects. Was today's "illness" one of those side effects or had she been drinking again? The boys said she had driven back from picking her daughter up in a wobbly fashion..... In a lot of cases, children don't have a second safe option to retreat to yet in my case they do.
One comment that did give me hope. Her daughter (who's 15 by the way) said that if her mum did start drinking, and I decided to go for residency again), she would back me in court. It's a nice thing to say but she'd have to be one hell of a brave girl to stand up in front of a judge to state that.
Went on holiday with the twins two weeks ago to Exmouth and had a great time. Driving back up the M5 and got a phone call from twins sister saying she wanted me to keep hold of the boys for an extra few days. Burbled a half-hearted explanation but she was upset so didn't get a lot of details.
Turned out that her (and the boys) mum had got blind drunk, threatened to harm herself and when the ambulance was called, threatened them too hence the police came to arrest her. After the police let her go, she basically reached rock bottom and admitted to being an alcoholic. She went to the doctors and she got a plan from him outlining potential support groups etc and a pathway forward to deal with problems. Ended up having the boys back that night after all.
Been all quiet since with lots of sheepish looks from her when I go to pick up or drop the boys off. Apparently that last debacle was due to her finally splitting up with the ex-boyfriend although I'll believe it when I see it.
Today, a turn for the worse.
Dropped the boys home after football training and went home when I got a call from their sister saying that their mum hadn't picked her up from school. Eventually her mum (who claimed to be ill) turned up and picked her up an hour late after being asleep apparently.
Anyway got another phone call about 45 minutes later from her daughter who said that the boys mum was refusing to make them tea and just wanted to be left alone. She asked me to come over and have the boys stay over tonight and take them to school tomorrow morning as she (the daughter) has a GCSE Maths exam tomorrow and needed to revise and obviously looking after two ten year olds, bathing them, feeding them and putting them to bed was going to be tricky (fair enough!!).
Boys are over here now, safe and warm and fed and bathed. Yet I feel so helpless as a dad without custody because this cannot go on. Their mother has admitted to being an alcoholic and is currently on anti depressants which apparently will have some side effects. Was today's "illness" one of those side effects or had she been drinking again? The boys said she had driven back from picking her daughter up in a wobbly fashion..... In a lot of cases, children don't have a second safe option to retreat to yet in my case they do.
One comment that did give me hope. Her daughter (who's 15 by the way) said that if her mum did start drinking, and I decided to go for residency again), she would back me in court. It's a nice thing to say but she'd have to be one hell of a brave girl to stand up in front of a judge to state that.
pulliptears said:
no advice, just wanted to say what an amazing Dad you are, and an incredibly patient one. The twins will be fine as long as they have you, the 15 year old though I feel especially sorry for, a child shouldn't have that responsibility. I just hope her Father is as caring as you.
Thanks for your kind words. 
The 15-year-old is an amazing kid really considering the stuff she has seen and had to put up with. I split with her mum for the final time around six or seven years ago and since then, she has seen her mum have five more boyfriends, three of which she has lived with. This is in addition to her dad, another man and then me by the time she was four years old....
As I said earlier, she had a GCSE in Maths today so I hope she got the revision done okay and managed to cope with the exam today. I have a daughter a year older than her so know what it is like going through the final year of exams and she has a tough year ahead of her. Being her mum's nursemaid shouldn't really come into it really.
With reagrds to her dad, she is quite close to him but last year, he was buried up above his neck in debt and suffered a breakdown where he wrote everyone notes and fled to America. He came back a couple of weeks later but thankfully, his wife (the daughter's step-mum) is grounded and also works in mental health so is in a good position to deal with things and help her stepdaughter.
I have a horrible feeling that all of this is a ticking timebomb though.
I appreciate that the numbers of interested "bookmarkers" is probably vanishing by the day but just wanted to update the situation for my sanity if nobody else's... 
Had a phone call from the local Children's Services social worker today regarding the latest incident detailed a few posts above. They wanted to get my feelings on that particular situation and they also want to meet me on Friday at their office, basically to get my side of the story.
Turns out that I will also be getting an invite to a Child Protection Plan meeting in two weeks time. This will see a group of social workers, myself and the mother all determine a strategy for going forward from here with one option being putting the boys on the child protection register "at risk".
I still have mixed feelings about this move if it happens. On the one hand, at last the authorities seem to be moving forward and trying to work something out rather than just accepting things and saying they're sure things will get better and that the children are managing the situation well. On the other hand, it also means they think that they have serious concerns about the mother's parenting skills (well documented above) and that they want to keep an eye on things.
Personally, and I know I'm biased, I cannot see why awarding me sole residency is such a big deal. The boys stay with me two, sometimes three nights a week and love it here having stuck to that routine for six years or more now. I don't drink (mother is an alcoholic), I don't smoke (mother is a smoker of twenty years) and I don't bring a continual stream of unsuitable partners into the house (since 2005, she has introduced boys to six partners, myself one!).
Next year they go to a secondary school a hundred yards from my house. I'd happily consider a reverse arrangement to what is in place now (five days with me, two with her) which would allow her to get work as she is desperate to work having been on benefits since 2004. I work from home as a website administrator meaning that I could arrange my work around the boys rather than arranging my boys around my social life.
Sorry if this seems bitter but if, after all of this, nothing happens, I wiull be hugely disappointed.
Had a phone call from the local Children's Services social worker today regarding the latest incident detailed a few posts above. They wanted to get my feelings on that particular situation and they also want to meet me on Friday at their office, basically to get my side of the story.
Turns out that I will also be getting an invite to a Child Protection Plan meeting in two weeks time. This will see a group of social workers, myself and the mother all determine a strategy for going forward from here with one option being putting the boys on the child protection register "at risk".
I still have mixed feelings about this move if it happens. On the one hand, at last the authorities seem to be moving forward and trying to work something out rather than just accepting things and saying they're sure things will get better and that the children are managing the situation well. On the other hand, it also means they think that they have serious concerns about the mother's parenting skills (well documented above) and that they want to keep an eye on things.
Personally, and I know I'm biased, I cannot see why awarding me sole residency is such a big deal. The boys stay with me two, sometimes three nights a week and love it here having stuck to that routine for six years or more now. I don't drink (mother is an alcoholic), I don't smoke (mother is a smoker of twenty years) and I don't bring a continual stream of unsuitable partners into the house (since 2005, she has introduced boys to six partners, myself one!).
Next year they go to a secondary school a hundred yards from my house. I'd happily consider a reverse arrangement to what is in place now (five days with me, two with her) which would allow her to get work as she is desperate to work having been on benefits since 2004. I work from home as a website administrator meaning that I could arrange my work around the boys rather than arranging my boys around my social life.
Sorry if this seems bitter but if, after all of this, nothing happens, I wiull be hugely disappointed.
Thank you all.
If I'm honest, a tiny piece of me is hoping that the great big wheels of children's welfare are slowly beginning to turn. I'll have more of an idea after the initial meeting on Friday; she'll give me an idea as to whether I should engage a solicitor again or not. Until then, we just sit and wait.
The daughter's testimony might end up being important and again last night, she reaffirmed that she would back me in any residency issues. Sad thing is that she is in her last year at school and doesn't really need this crap. Re the boys, the solicitor I had five years ago when I went for a PRO said that when the boys reach twelve years old, their opinion as to what they want is taken into account more than before that age. They were eleven on Friday!
If I'm honest, a tiny piece of me is hoping that the great big wheels of children's welfare are slowly beginning to turn. I'll have more of an idea after the initial meeting on Friday; she'll give me an idea as to whether I should engage a solicitor again or not. Until then, we just sit and wait.
The daughter's testimony might end up being important and again last night, she reaffirmed that she would back me in any residency issues. Sad thing is that she is in her last year at school and doesn't really need this crap. Re the boys, the solicitor I had five years ago when I went for a PRO said that when the boys reach twelve years old, their opinion as to what they want is taken into account more than before that age. They were eleven on Friday!
BJG1 said:
Mainly posting so this appears in 'my stuff'
Really feel for you. What a st situation. Where kids have one parent like you and one with issues I really can't see any justification for them not being with you. Have you spoken to the mother about having them more/switching the arrangement? She may want to.
Thanks for posting. I've mentioned it before but I think she'd sooner curl up and die than let me have them. It's hard for a mum to give up her kids to a dad she is apart from. Turning it around, I wouldn't do it unless there was absolutely no other way in dealing with it.Really feel for you. What a s
t situation. Where kids have one parent like you and one with issues I really can't see any justification for them not being with you. Have you spoken to the mother about having them more/switching the arrangement? She may want to.It was last brought up three years ago when she was in the process of splitting up with an abusive b/f. He had threatened her and she was looking at going into a refuge with the three kids so I suggested the boys came to live with me temporarily and she and her daughter could be "refuged". That went down well, not! Wouldn't entertain it at all in any form so in the end, they all came to stay with me and I slept on the floor for five weeks.
It might get a more favourable reaction if it came from a social worker or, eventually, a judge but from me, it would get a negative I'm afraid.
elvismiggell said:
Pardon my facetiousness, but isn't that what she appears to want anyway?!
Hmm, good point. Obviously if the worst happened and she did die, then I would almost certainly get residency. I suppose what I'm saying is that if that happened, the decision would be taken by someone else rather than her having to admit to being a failed parent and simply giving them up.
Mr E said:
Sobering stuff (with pun intended)
I'd offer to buy the OP a drink, if it didn't seem completely inappropriate.
Chin up fella. I honestly think there's nothing more you can do.
Kind of you, Mr E, but I don't drink. I'll have a pint of orange juice and lemonade though, thanks. I'd offer to buy the OP a drink, if it didn't seem completely inappropriate.
Chin up fella. I honestly think there's nothing more you can do.
Just had the official confirmation of the Child Protection Conference for December 12th which will decide on a strategy.
Not sure how many people I thought were going but it will need to be a big room!
Chairperson
Team Managers, Social Services (2)
Case Co-ordinator
Police
Community Paediatrician
Community Nurse Manager
General Practitioner
Head Teacher (2)
Area Education Welfare Officer (2)
School Nurse
Child Protection Notetaker
Childrens Parents (3)
The children (1)
Reconstruct Advocacy Service
Psychiatric Social Worker
Alcohol Worker
So the future of the children will be in the hands of that group of 21 people!!
Not sure how many people I thought were going but it will need to be a big room!
Chairperson
Team Managers, Social Services (2)
Case Co-ordinator
Police
Community Paediatrician
Community Nurse Manager
General Practitioner
Head Teacher (2)
Area Education Welfare Officer (2)
School Nurse
Child Protection Notetaker
Childrens Parents (3)
The children (1)
Reconstruct Advocacy Service
Psychiatric Social Worker
Alcohol Worker
So the future of the children will be in the hands of that group of 21 people!!
randlemarcus said:
Are you allowed to talk to any of those people beforehand? If so, see if you can get them to suggest a temporary residency, as this will be received better by your Ex than anything that sounds like she won't get them back.
I suspect anything that comes out of your mouth will be rejected by her if it's not precisely what she would say herself.
Hi RM,I suspect anything that comes out of your mouth will be rejected by her if it's not precisely what she would say herself.
There is a fair chance I will see the boys' headteacher before the conference as he is quite a hands-on head and he and I have always got on. I would feel quite uncomfortable asking him in advance to do that; it almost feels like you shouldn't get in touch even though the paperwork doesn't forbid you to.
As for the rest of them, aside from the daughter's father and the daughter herself, I've only ever spoken to the GP who was quite sympathetic to my case while remaining strictly neutral. I need to check whether I'm allowed to talk to them before I put my foot in it.
randlemarcus said:
I'm not encouraging you to suborn, or bribe them 
Do check, perhaps under the guise of talking to the social worker about whether it's appropriate to talk to the Headmaster about a completely unrelated schooling issue. If its OK, then a general conversation ought to allow enough freedom of conversational movement for them to come up with the idea all on their own
Oh I wasn't suggesting the bribery / suborn method.... Do check, perhaps under the guise of talking to the social worker about whether it's appropriate to talk to the Headmaster about a completely unrelated schooling issue. If its OK, then a general conversation ought to allow enough freedom of conversational movement for them to come up with the idea all on their own
It would be no issue at all to see the head. I collect the boys twice a week from school, coach the year 5 and year 6 pupils at football there, and also chat regularly to him about football as he is a referee and I work at a football club so there would be little difficulty in manufacturing a conversation with him.
I'm on good enough terms that if he brought it up, I'd say "Ooh, are we allowed to talk about this then?" in a jokey way before then getting down to business. He's bound to know the CP route better than me for sure.
Sorry, Singlecoil, should have been clearer.
The twins are mine with the ex but there is also an older daughter that lives with her, aged fifteen, and the third parent attending is her father who aplit from her mother years ago.
I guess because he has a vested interest in that his daughter by my ex is in the same house, he's been invited.
Edited to add: Randlemarcus is spot on.
The twins are mine with the ex but there is also an older daughter that lives with her, aged fifteen, and the third parent attending is her father who aplit from her mother years ago.
I guess because he has a vested interest in that his daughter by my ex is in the same house, he's been invited.
Edited to add: Randlemarcus is spot on.
Nothing much else to report except that I met the social worker this afternoon who gave me a copy of the pre-conference report. It confirms that she will be recommending the children go under the control of a Child Protection Plan which basically means they'll be keeping an even closer eye on them. I'd imagine that a solicitor might see this as a positive move in any potential future residency hearing but that's just my guess.
I met the ex before picking the boys up from school this afternoon for a brief chat. She kept saying that this report was full of holes and that it was misrepresenting her situation. I suppose she would say that but I'm in no mood for a lot of mercy now; it's obvious, knowing her as I do, that she is playing a game for me to go easy on here on Monday at the conference. I wasn't planning to go over the top anyway; more a case of presenting my views in a quiet, methodical manner with a possible positive outcome for the two (or three) children involved.
The meeting is at 2.00pm on Monday' safe to say that at its conclusion, I will be a lot more aware of whether I will ever have the boys come to live with me.
I met the ex before picking the boys up from school this afternoon for a brief chat. She kept saying that this report was full of holes and that it was misrepresenting her situation. I suppose she would say that but I'm in no mood for a lot of mercy now; it's obvious, knowing her as I do, that she is playing a game for me to go easy on here on Monday at the conference. I wasn't planning to go over the top anyway; more a case of presenting my views in a quiet, methodical manner with a possible positive outcome for the two (or three) children involved.
The meeting is at 2.00pm on Monday' safe to say that at its conclusion, I will be a lot more aware of whether I will ever have the boys come to live with me.
Well the 21 people ended up being just nine. The chair, myself, the ex, her daughter, a notetaker, a police rep, the daughter's headteacher, a case worker and a social worker.
Talked for two hours, warned beforehand that some of it might be uncomfortable hearing for the ex and so it proved, with her upset enough to walk out at one point. Made my points quietly and efficiently (those who know me will be shocked by this.
) and hopefully got my point across. Had been advised by the chair person that no questions re residency could be brought up as it wasn't on the agenda but made sure I told him my thoughts so he knew where I was coming from.
In the end, all the professionals around the table agreed to implement a Child Protection Plan, about the best result I could have hoped for bar them being put on the "at risk" register. This means she has to attend AA meetings regularly, will receive announced AND unannounced social worker visits every fortnight, will be assessed regularly and be subject to rigorous checks to make sure the children aren't emotionally abused any more.
Am I happy? Reasonably, it would have been nice to get more credit for my role but in the end, today was about the children and their welfare. I have to agree that they are the priority so will just bide my time until the inevitable happens, as it will.
Until then, head down and carry on.
Talked for two hours, warned beforehand that some of it might be uncomfortable hearing for the ex and so it proved, with her upset enough to walk out at one point. Made my points quietly and efficiently (those who know me will be shocked by this.
) and hopefully got my point across. Had been advised by the chair person that no questions re residency could be brought up as it wasn't on the agenda but made sure I told him my thoughts so he knew where I was coming from.In the end, all the professionals around the table agreed to implement a Child Protection Plan, about the best result I could have hoped for bar them being put on the "at risk" register. This means she has to attend AA meetings regularly, will receive announced AND unannounced social worker visits every fortnight, will be assessed regularly and be subject to rigorous checks to make sure the children aren't emotionally abused any more.
Am I happy? Reasonably, it would have been nice to get more credit for my role but in the end, today was about the children and their welfare. I have to agree that they are the priority so will just bide my time until the inevitable happens, as it will.
Until then, head down and carry on.
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