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Bob_Defly

Original Poster:

1,552 posts

100 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
Hi all,

Is there a good list somewhere of chassis and/or body changes over the years? I'm looking at buying an older car, somewhere between 10-20 years old, but want to make sure it looks more like this:


i.e. nice and modern.

Rather than this:

i.e. a bit older looking with the large wings

I know a bit about S3/S4's etc, but what are the more modern chassis's known as? And what years were the different cars produced?

elan_fan

86 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
get a book, something like 'the magnificent seven' tells you loads and you can keep going back. Also look at the classifieds here, you'll soon start to see what years look like what. Thing is either one of those sevens can be made to look like the other one very easily. Late 90's on gets you a 'modern' seven.

dalongbloke

17 posts

58 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
Hi Bob... those two cars shown are identical chassis spec (if the V reg is not a private plate). The lower car is relatively recent as you can see from the "conical" indicators under the headlamps, so post early nineties. Flared wings or cycle wings were optional.

The cars changed to a metric chassis later (2007+??), but they still look the same.

Converting from flared wings to cycles is possible.

The only other differences on these two are wheel sizes, and one one car has blacked out chrome and steel work, one has a bigger FIA roll bar, and one has had the doors lifted off. All changeable very easily.

Regards Andy

Edited by dalongbloke on Sunday 29th April 12:03

Bob_Defly

Original Poster:

1,552 posts

100 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
dalongbloke said:
Hi Bob... those two cars shown are identical chassis spec (if the V reg is not a private plate). The lower car is relatively recent as you can see from the "conical" indicators under the headlamps, so post early nineties. Flared wings or cycle wings were optional.


Regards Andy
Thanks.

Is there anything on-line that shows when the chassis changed over the years?

VHPD

295 posts

17 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
Bob_Defly said:
Thanks.

Is there anything on-line that shows when the chassis changed over the years?
A bit here but incomplete

http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp
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Noger

6,779 posts

118 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all




Same Chassis smile

BBL-Sean

187 posts

45 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
Unsure of level of accuracy, but this should be pretty close:

1974: Initial chassis as S3 with added triangulation in engine bay and cockpit sides
1981: Long cockpit introduced
1985: De Dion introduced, tubes added along transmission tunnel
1986: Symmetrical chassis introduced, front mounted radiator
1996: Mid-year, De Dion chassis had a fully triangulated space frame structure in the tunnel which increased torsional stiffness by 30%
Standard roll bar 40mm taller and sloping forward
FRONT and REAR suspension geometry revisions - front, repositioning the wishbone pick-up points reducing roll-on camber change and track width variation
Some degree of anti-dive was incorporated
Progressive rate springs introduced on the rear
Bilstein damper revisions
Smaller front anti-roll bar
Rear anti-roll bar not fitted as standard but provision to fit if required
Steering rack development
2007: Metric chassis made by Caged (since purchased by Caterham) replaces Imperial chassis made by Arch Motor for the Seven since the late ‘50s.

thinfourth2

23,523 posts

73 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
BBL-Sean said:
Unsure of level of accuracy, but this should be pretty close:

1974: Initial chassis as S3 with added triangulation in engine bay and cockpit sides
1981: Long cockpit introduced
1985: De Dion introduced, tubes added along transmission tunnel
1986: Symmetrical chassis introduced, front mounted radiator
1996: Mid-year, De Dion chassis had a fully triangulated space frame structure in the tunnel which increased torsional stiffness by 30%
Standard roll bar 40mm taller and sloping forward
FRONT and REAR suspension geometry revisions - front, repositioning the wishbone pick-up points reducing roll-on camber change and track width variation
Some degree of anti-dive was incorporated
Progressive rate springs introduced on the rear
Bilstein damper revisions
Smaller front anti-roll bar
Rear anti-roll bar not fitted as standard but provision to fit if required
Steering rack development
hanbrake moved from under the dash to in the middle of the car
2007: Metric chassis made by Caged (since purchased by Caterham) replaces Imperial chassis made by Arch Motor for the Seven since the late ‘50s.
Editted for biggest visual change

Bob_Defly

Original Poster:

1,552 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
Awesome, just what I was looking for!!

So basically I can buy any car between 1996 and say 2003 and they will be exactly the same underneath? I'm assuming a Roadsport is what I'm after, not sure of the differences between that and the classic. I'll probably be looking for something from around 1997-1998, what engines were available at that time? (need to make sure it's serviceable in Canada)

And if I was to strip a Roadsport and replace many bits with lighter ones can I turn it into a Superlight? Or are there other things to consider?

I can buy carbon body bits at a later date, but is it worth looking for one with the right power (150bhp+) and gearbox (6spd option) to begin with?

Noger

6,779 posts

118 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
<sucks teeth>

Wellllll it isn't quite that simple smile

At the top of this chassis family tree is the split between de Dion and Live axle.

That is really the first question, and I would suggest you avoid Live Axle if you have spares worries in Canada, it is hard enough getting a Crown wheel for a Morris Ital Van in the UK ! And if you want big power they won't always cope.

In your year range that is probably just the Classics and bike engined oddities. But as with everything 7, you can't a,ways tell by just looking at the picture. People dabble !

Not even Bruce Almighty (of Arch motors, who have made the chassis since the Lotus days) will change an LA into a de Dion. Although it is no doubt possible you really don't want to go there. Although the irony is that if you turned a Classic into a Superlight-a-like it would be lighter than a Superlight smile

Clams v cycle wings - entirely possible, but needs a new side skin to get it looking perfect (otherwise your side has holes, or filled in holes, down the side).

There is the Slightly Vider chassis of the SV to consider. But you may want to discount that initially to make it easier.

So we are looking at a post 96, standard de Dion with cycle wings. Which will give you a range of engines and flavours to choose from.

As a rough rule, unmucked about with cars tend to command a higher price than major conversions. Almost every owner upgrades (or downgrades) their car, so we are really only talking about big changes. If you are looking at stripping something and rebuilding, then getting a previously upgraded car might be good value ?

Eric Mc

67,253 posts

134 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
I've also been under the impression that changing an older flared chassis to cycle mud guards usually requires a wider steering rack as the cycle mudguard would otherwise touch the bodywork.

Noger

6,779 posts

118 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
Or put little collars on the steering rack to reduce the turning circle.

Post 96 will almost certainly be the 8% rack though, or maybe 22%. Either way it shouldn't foul. Although my 22% rack fouls the wing stay on the zoorst headers. But that is because I am special, so we just cut the wing stays down. Must have saved a few grammes there.

Edited by Noger on Monday 30th April 08:44

Eric Mc

67,253 posts

134 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
I wonder how many flared mudguard cars have been produced since 1996?

bertie

5,617 posts

153 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
I could be wrong but I think there are some smal detail changes between a normal chassis (I'm talking post 96 de-dion here) and a superlight chassis.

I think the Superlight chassis doesn't have the spare wheel carrier, and does have brackets behind the seats for the crutch straps on the 6 point harness, plus maybe the mounting points for the watts linkage rear suspension.

Small points I know, don't know if there are any other differances in terms of chassis between Superlight and normal.

Anything de-dion is fundamentaly the same, it's just bolt on goodies apart from the flared arches, like flared trousers, who wants them!

Incorrigible

13,608 posts

130 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
It also depends on what the car was initially used for, Original scholarship and latterly academy cars had different change over years. For example you can get a 2001 ex academy car with the underdash handbrake.

Live axle production went on as late as 2000 (I think)


HustleRussell

4,114 posts

29 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
Ben, I've seen 2002 'beaulieu' special edition cars with 8v Vauxhall engine and live axle, so they did go as late as then!

EFA

1,052 posts

132 months

[news] 
Monday 30th April 2012 quote quote all
Really early Caterhams should look like this :-)

Bob_Defly

Original Poster:

1,552 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
EFA said:
Really early Caterhams should look like this :-)
roflroflrofl

I know I'm a newbie when it comes to this stuff, you'll have to bear with me. What does the De Dion suspension do over a live axle, is each wheel independent?

If buying a car from the late 90's will most of them have been De Dion by then?

Noger

6,779 posts

118 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
EFA said:
Really early Caterhams should look like this :-)
The Oldest Caterham in the world smile

Noger

6,779 posts

118 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
Bob_Defly said:
roflroflrofl

I know I'm a newbie when it comes to this stuff, you'll have to bear with me. What does the De Dion suspension do over a live axle, is each wheel independent?

If buying a car from the late 90's will most of them have been De Dion by then?
Don't worry, EFA was being "funny" I think ! wink

De Dion vs Live Axle is the subject of a whole new thread, but they aren't Independant - you need the CSR chassis for fulI IRS. Arguably better on "real" roads, and definitely able to take more power (although there are options to upgrade the live axle) I would think you would be wanting to look for de Dion. Most will have them anyway in your search bracket. The "classic" (I had forgotten about the Beaulieu special) and bike engine cars had live axle. Anything Supersport or Roadsport or Superlight will have de Dion (although as with anything Caterham, they will probably being an exception somewhere !).



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