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Bob_Defly
Original Poster
1,552 posts
100 months
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Hi all, Is there a good list somewhere of chassis and/or body changes over the years? I'm looking at buying an older car, somewhere between 10-20 years old, but want to make sure it looks more like this:  i.e. nice and modern. Rather than this:  i.e. a bit older looking with the large wings I know a bit about S3/S4's etc, but what are the more modern chassis's known as? And what years were the different cars produced?
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elan_fan
86 posts
56 months
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get a book, something like 'the magnificent seven' tells you loads and you can keep going back. Also look at the classifieds here, you'll soon start to see what years look like what. Thing is either one of those sevens can be made to look like the other one very easily. Late 90's on gets you a 'modern' seven.
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dalongbloke
17 posts
58 months
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Hi Bob... those two cars shown are identical chassis spec (if the V reg is not a private plate). The lower car is relatively recent as you can see from the "conical" indicators under the headlamps, so post early nineties. Flared wings or cycle wings were optional.
The cars changed to a metric chassis later (2007+??), but they still look the same.
Converting from flared wings to cycles is possible.
The only other differences on these two are wheel sizes, and one one car has blacked out chrome and steel work, one has a bigger FIA roll bar, and one has had the doors lifted off. All changeable very easily.
Regards Andy
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Bob_Defly
Original Poster
1,552 posts
100 months
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dalongbloke said: Hi Bob... those two cars shown are identical chassis spec (if the V reg is not a private plate). The lower car is relatively recent as you can see from the "conical" indicators under the headlamps, so post early nineties. Flared wings or cycle wings were optional.
Regards Andy Thanks. Is there anything on-line that shows when the chassis changed over the years?
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VHPD
295 posts
17 months
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Bob_Defly said: Thanks.
Is there anything on-line that shows when the chassis changed over the years? A bit here but incomplete http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp
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Noger
6,779 posts
118 months
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BBL-Sean
187 posts
45 months
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Unsure of level of accuracy, but this should be pretty close:
1974: Initial chassis as S3 with added triangulation in engine bay and cockpit sides 1981: Long cockpit introduced 1985: De Dion introduced, tubes added along transmission tunnel 1986: Symmetrical chassis introduced, front mounted radiator 1996: Mid-year, De Dion chassis had a fully triangulated space frame structure in the tunnel which increased torsional stiffness by 30% Standard roll bar 40mm taller and sloping forward FRONT and REAR suspension geometry revisions - front, repositioning the wishbone pick-up points reducing roll-on camber change and track width variation Some degree of anti-dive was incorporated Progressive rate springs introduced on the rear Bilstein damper revisions Smaller front anti-roll bar Rear anti-roll bar not fitted as standard but provision to fit if required Steering rack development 2007: Metric chassis made by Caged (since purchased by Caterham) replaces Imperial chassis made by Arch Motor for the Seven since the late ‘50s.
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thinfourth2
23,523 posts
73 months
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BBL-Sean said: Unsure of level of accuracy, but this should be pretty close:
1974: Initial chassis as S3 with added triangulation in engine bay and cockpit sides 1981: Long cockpit introduced 1985: De Dion introduced, tubes added along transmission tunnel 1986: Symmetrical chassis introduced, front mounted radiator 1996: Mid-year, De Dion chassis had a fully triangulated space frame structure in the tunnel which increased torsional stiffness by 30% Standard roll bar 40mm taller and sloping forward FRONT and REAR suspension geometry revisions - front, repositioning the wishbone pick-up points reducing roll-on camber change and track width variation Some degree of anti-dive was incorporated Progressive rate springs introduced on the rear Bilstein damper revisions Smaller front anti-roll bar Rear anti-roll bar not fitted as standard but provision to fit if required Steering rack development hanbrake moved from under the dash to in the middle of the car 2007: Metric chassis made by Caged (since purchased by Caterham) replaces Imperial chassis made by Arch Motor for the Seven since the late ‘50s. Editted for biggest visual change
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Bob_Defly
Original Poster
1,552 posts
100 months
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Awesome, just what I was looking for!!
So basically I can buy any car between 1996 and say 2003 and they will be exactly the same underneath? I'm assuming a Roadsport is what I'm after, not sure of the differences between that and the classic. I'll probably be looking for something from around 1997-1998, what engines were available at that time? (need to make sure it's serviceable in Canada)
And if I was to strip a Roadsport and replace many bits with lighter ones can I turn it into a Superlight? Or are there other things to consider?
I can buy carbon body bits at a later date, but is it worth looking for one with the right power (150bhp+) and gearbox (6spd option) to begin with?
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Noger
6,779 posts
118 months
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<sucks teeth> Wellllll it isn't quite that simple  At the top of this chassis family tree is the split between de Dion and Live axle. That is really the first question, and I would suggest you avoid Live Axle if you have spares worries in Canada, it is hard enough getting a Crown wheel for a Morris Ital Van in the UK ! And if you want big power they won't always cope. In your year range that is probably just the Classics and bike engined oddities. But as with everything 7, you can't a,ways tell by just looking at the picture. People dabble ! Not even Bruce Almighty (of Arch motors, who have made the chassis since the Lotus days) will change an LA into a de Dion. Although it is no doubt possible you really don't want to go there. Although the irony is that if you turned a Classic into a Superlight-a-like it would be lighter than a Superlight  Clams v cycle wings - entirely possible, but needs a new side skin to get it looking perfect (otherwise your side has holes, or filled in holes, down the side). There is the Slightly Vider chassis of the SV to consider. But you may want to discount that initially to make it easier. So we are looking at a post 96, standard de Dion with cycle wings. Which will give you a range of engines and flavours to choose from. As a rough rule, unmucked about with cars tend to command a higher price than major conversions. Almost every owner upgrades (or downgrades) their car, so we are really only talking about big changes. If you are looking at stripping something and rebuilding, then getting a previously upgraded car might be good value ?
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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I've also been under the impression that changing an older flared chassis to cycle mud guards usually requires a wider steering rack as the cycle mudguard would otherwise touch the bodywork.
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Noger
6,779 posts
118 months
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Or put little collars on the steering rack to reduce the turning circle.
Post 96 will almost certainly be the 8% rack though, or maybe 22%. Either way it shouldn't foul. Although my 22% rack fouls the wing stay on the zoorst headers. But that is because I am special, so we just cut the wing stays down. Must have saved a few grammes there.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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I wonder how many flared mudguard cars have been produced since 1996?
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bertie
5,617 posts
153 months
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I could be wrong but I think there are some smal detail changes between a normal chassis (I'm talking post 96 de-dion here) and a superlight chassis.
I think the Superlight chassis doesn't have the spare wheel carrier, and does have brackets behind the seats for the crutch straps on the 6 point harness, plus maybe the mounting points for the watts linkage rear suspension.
Small points I know, don't know if there are any other differances in terms of chassis between Superlight and normal.
Anything de-dion is fundamentaly the same, it's just bolt on goodies apart from the flared arches, like flared trousers, who wants them!
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Incorrigible
13,608 posts
130 months
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It also depends on what the car was initially used for, Original scholarship and latterly academy cars had different change over years. For example you can get a 2001 ex academy car with the underdash handbrake.
Live axle production went on as late as 2000 (I think)
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HustleRussell
4,114 posts
29 months
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Ben, I've seen 2002 'beaulieu' special edition cars with 8v Vauxhall engine and live axle, so they did go as late as then!
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EFA
1,052 posts
132 months
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Really early Caterhams should look like this  :-)
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Bob_Defly
Original Poster
1,552 posts
100 months
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EFA said: Really early Caterhams should look like this  :-)    I know I'm a newbie when it comes to this stuff, you'll have to bear with me. What does the De Dion suspension do over a live axle, is each wheel independent? If buying a car from the late 90's will most of them have been De Dion by then?
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Noger
6,779 posts
118 months
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EFA said: Really early Caterhams should look like this  :-) The Oldest Caterham in the world 
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Noger
6,779 posts
118 months
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Bob_Defly said:    I know I'm a newbie when it comes to this stuff, you'll have to bear with me. What does the De Dion suspension do over a live axle, is each wheel independent? If buying a car from the late 90's will most of them have been De Dion by then? Don't worry, EFA was being "funny" I think !  De Dion vs Live Axle is the subject of a whole new thread, but they aren't Independant - you need the CSR chassis for fulI IRS. Arguably better on "real" roads, and definitely able to take more power (although there are options to upgrade the live axle) I would think you would be wanting to look for de Dion. Most will have them anyway in your search bracket. The "classic" (I had forgotten about the Beaulieu special) and bike engine cars had live axle. Anything Supersport or Roadsport or Superlight will have de Dion (although as with anything Caterham, they will probably being an exception somewhere !).
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