Lotus 7 Club - is it worth it?
Discussion
Reading the wife's copy of Low flying over the weekend, I noticed the L7 club have finally got rid of the 2 incompetant donkeys who alienated so many normal members causing them to leave the club. The new guy at the top certainly has a difficult job to bring back the club from the current state.
Hope he continues with the cleanout of the bigots, bullys, and moderators, Several still remain in positions which they shouldn't have, before the club can make a fresh start.
Never met the new guy - anyone know whether he's any more capable than the previous occupants?
Hope he continues with the cleanout of the bigots, bullys, and moderators, Several still remain in positions which they shouldn't have, before the club can make a fresh start.
Never met the new guy - anyone know whether he's any more capable than the previous occupants?
S47 said:
Reading the wife's copy of Low flying over the weekend, I noticed the L7 club have finally got rid of the 2 incompetant donkeys who alienated so many normal members causing them to leave the club. The new guy at the top certainly has a difficult job to bring back the club from the current state.
Hope he continues with the cleanout of the bigots, bullys, and moderators, Several still remain in positions which they shouldn't have, before the club can make a fresh start.
Never met the new guy - anyone know whether he's any more capable than the previous occupants?
52.392500°N 2.090000°W.Hope he continues with the cleanout of the bigots, bullys, and moderators, Several still remain in positions which they shouldn't have, before the club can make a fresh start.
Never met the new guy - anyone know whether he's any more capable than the previous occupants?
It's interesting to watch from afar . . As a recent addition is a 7, then I briefly considered joining, but it seems just the same as the TVR car club - which I left after they wouldn't support demonstrating to Downing St about the closure of the factory, until the scale of support meant they had to change their minds, continually being in debt to the tax office, the same people making the same decision and although well produced the magazine covers the same ground repeatedly on about a 3yr cycle, especially with no new cars to discuss and any discounts you can get if you ask anyway. Always found this argument amusing unless there's really something very special on offer, but you can get 10% off most things if you've got the nerve to ask.
The debates are the same .. .
Join because ..
You get a free magazine
You get discounts
You make friends
It's only €XXX a year
Don't join because . . .
Magazines not very good
You'll get most of the discounts anyway if you ask or haggle
If you can't make friends without being in a club . .
It's €XXX a year !!!
To reassure both sides of the debate, the TVR club is largely the same, the same debate persists.
I use Blatchat a lot for reference, I personally think it's great as it's an open resource. I wouldn't pay to join to get access, but it doesn't discourage me from joining. The TVRCC forums are restricted and it's a shame, as my experience is that these boards fill that void anyway, but that's very different to the 7 community.
The difference though as I see it is the level of vitreol and venom in the arguments here. If anything would put people off joining a club (on the face of it) is this thread, it is most damaging for the club. The blame resides with both sides of the debate. Those that criticise the club and then how the members remaining actually deal with that criticism, if anything it is the latter that is more of a hinderance to entry. It used to be similar in the TVRCC, complain and you got a long stream of you don't volunteer, you're just grinding an axe, you're a troll, why don't you want to stand in a field and look at cars repeatedly every year etc etc . . It's the coninuing members attacks on those who criticise who damage their own clubs attrativity to non members more than the others, as surely a healthy club is one that welcomes differing views and welcomes the discussion, is mature enough to explain the choices made and openly debate why some difficult decisions were/are taken.
I shall remain a non-member (I'm sure you won't miss me), largely as being located in France there are so many alleged benefits I wouldn't receive anyway and I'd want to re-consider my other club memberships, why wouldn't I re-join the TVRCC etc . .
Clubs always become politicised, internet forums expose huge risks for them and then it needs managing and somehow it just seems to get political, out of control, venomous and a debate on what are the benefits for anyone.
Please however conintue to use BC, it's a very useful resource when you're building a Caterham for the first time and I'm most grateful for the access.
Arnie, I do think your suggestions are very good in a modern world, why bother with the costs of printing and sending a magazine . . I only buy them at airports to read on the plane, everything else I read on-line . .. I'd leave BC as it is, not open access, but open to search and view, posting is as a member only or as an on-line member with access and posting rights, pdf magazine etc . . for a lower fee.
I'm sure I've added nothing of value, but I'm also sure you can now quote that last bit to reinforce the point
The debates are the same .. .
Join because ..
You get a free magazine
You get discounts
You make friends
It's only €XXX a year
Don't join because . . .
Magazines not very good
You'll get most of the discounts anyway if you ask or haggle
If you can't make friends without being in a club . .
It's €XXX a year !!!
To reassure both sides of the debate, the TVR club is largely the same, the same debate persists.
I use Blatchat a lot for reference, I personally think it's great as it's an open resource. I wouldn't pay to join to get access, but it doesn't discourage me from joining. The TVRCC forums are restricted and it's a shame, as my experience is that these boards fill that void anyway, but that's very different to the 7 community.
The difference though as I see it is the level of vitreol and venom in the arguments here. If anything would put people off joining a club (on the face of it) is this thread, it is most damaging for the club. The blame resides with both sides of the debate. Those that criticise the club and then how the members remaining actually deal with that criticism, if anything it is the latter that is more of a hinderance to entry. It used to be similar in the TVRCC, complain and you got a long stream of you don't volunteer, you're just grinding an axe, you're a troll, why don't you want to stand in a field and look at cars repeatedly every year etc etc . . It's the coninuing members attacks on those who criticise who damage their own clubs attrativity to non members more than the others, as surely a healthy club is one that welcomes differing views and welcomes the discussion, is mature enough to explain the choices made and openly debate why some difficult decisions were/are taken.
I shall remain a non-member (I'm sure you won't miss me), largely as being located in France there are so many alleged benefits I wouldn't receive anyway and I'd want to re-consider my other club memberships, why wouldn't I re-join the TVRCC etc . .
Clubs always become politicised, internet forums expose huge risks for them and then it needs managing and somehow it just seems to get political, out of control, venomous and a debate on what are the benefits for anyone.
Please however conintue to use BC, it's a very useful resource when you're building a Caterham for the first time and I'm most grateful for the access.
Arnie, I do think your suggestions are very good in a modern world, why bother with the costs of printing and sending a magazine . . I only buy them at airports to read on the plane, everything else I read on-line . .. I'd leave BC as it is, not open access, but open to search and view, posting is as a member only or as an on-line member with access and posting rights, pdf magazine etc . . for a lower fee.
I'm sure I've added nothing of value, but I'm also sure you can now quote that last bit to reinforce the point
Interesting post Johno. I too was a member of the TVR club. Left last year when I sold my TVR.
At least you can still get info from Blatchat as can anyone else. Something you can't do with the TVR club............unless you pay your £50 it's a closed shop when your membership expires.
I've met great guys at both clubs.........only bunfights you get are online, never seen a crossed word at a big get together.
Interesting though the difference in the 2 club forums. Blatchat although not as busy as it once was is still busy.............compared to here.
Yet the TVR main forum is dead..............all the chat/info/bunfights are on the PH forum.
Magazines?...........both good but being monthly it must be hard for the producers to fill it. The TVR mag was big, glossy and bold but choked with adverts........Low flying of late has contained good articles........of course only if they interest you.
As other blokes have said, no club can ever please 100% of its punters 100% of the time.
At least you can still get info from Blatchat as can anyone else. Something you can't do with the TVR club............unless you pay your £50 it's a closed shop when your membership expires.
I've met great guys at both clubs.........only bunfights you get are online, never seen a crossed word at a big get together.
Interesting though the difference in the 2 club forums. Blatchat although not as busy as it once was is still busy.............compared to here.
Yet the TVR main forum is dead..............all the chat/info/bunfights are on the PH forum.
Magazines?...........both good but being monthly it must be hard for the producers to fill it. The TVR mag was big, glossy and bold but choked with adverts........Low flying of late has contained good articles........of course only if they interest you.
As other blokes have said, no club can ever please 100% of its punters 100% of the time.
jingars said:
Currently, anyone with Internet access can view postings on the club form, www.blatchat.com.
Only club members can post new topics, or reply to existing ones.
Club membership gets you a monthly magazine (entitled Low Flying) delivered to your home. There is no electronic or on-line version of Low Flying, although there is a truly hilarious long running gag about PDF versions of the mag being available to certain "inner circle" members.
Some technical articles from the magazine have been turned into PDFs and are available in the members-only area of the website.
There are also some discounts available to members. The list of these is occasionally in the club mag, but is also available in the members section of the website.
The club arranges 7-only track days and sessions. Current mag has arrived with a day at Cadwell for £165 - seems reasonable to me. Feedback I have read is very good re. track time and numbers of cars on track, etc.
There are also regional meetings, normally held in a pub. My local meet was a good bunch of people, but has been moribund for some months now. Whether you can/should turn up to these if you aren't a member has already been discussed at some length on here...
Some of Arnie's points are interesting. I would support Blatchat returning to allowing non-members to post and an electronic version of the club magazine.
However, the club has a new Chairman and a new General Secretary so they should be given time to get their feet under the table and set out their stall before commenting upon the make-up of the management and moderation (something I have had issue with in the past).
I have no intention of volunteering my time to assist the club, so I don't feel that I have the moral right to criticise those that do. As Arnie is coming from a different position (he's up for it) then that's a different matter. And quite entertaining to read.
All good points John!Only club members can post new topics, or reply to existing ones.
Club membership gets you a monthly magazine (entitled Low Flying) delivered to your home. There is no electronic or on-line version of Low Flying, although there is a truly hilarious long running gag about PDF versions of the mag being available to certain "inner circle" members.
Some technical articles from the magazine have been turned into PDFs and are available in the members-only area of the website.
There are also some discounts available to members. The list of these is occasionally in the club mag, but is also available in the members section of the website.
The club arranges 7-only track days and sessions. Current mag has arrived with a day at Cadwell for £165 - seems reasonable to me. Feedback I have read is very good re. track time and numbers of cars on track, etc.
There are also regional meetings, normally held in a pub. My local meet was a good bunch of people, but has been moribund for some months now. Whether you can/should turn up to these if you aren't a member has already been discussed at some length on here...
Some of Arnie's points are interesting. I would support Blatchat returning to allowing non-members to post and an electronic version of the club magazine.
However, the club has a new Chairman and a new General Secretary so they should be given time to get their feet under the table and set out their stall before commenting upon the make-up of the management and moderation (something I have had issue with in the past).
I have no intention of volunteering my time to assist the club, so I don't feel that I have the moral right to criticise those that do. As Arnie is coming from a different position (he's up for it) then that's a different matter. And quite entertaining to read.
And sorry about the regional meet being Moribud! I believe that to mean close to death, but I am pretty sure that with the demise of the Brook Inn as a pub, and hence meeting place it had shuffled off the mortal coil some time ago!
Sadly as you know due to work and family commitments I had to resign as the local AR, I hope I did some good things for some people during my time.
I was contacted by the new AR coordinator, who seems like a good guy, but I don't know of anyone else prepared to step up to the role of the AR.
Lets hope some new blood in the management team brings new vim and vigor to the Club, and I hope that a brand new look and feel to the website as is promised is on the way.
I still think its worth being a member of the Club, and many new and existing owners can get a lot of help and support from the community.
Again I no longer feel happy to make posts on Blatchat, as too many of the same old people seem determined to make negative comments, and I don't have time for it.
I am always happy to offer any advice I can to potentials new Caterham owners on the specification and build of new cars, after building three of my own, and helping in three others, I have some experience in such matters.
So my advice would be join the club, and get as much out of it as you can, and also post on this forum in PH too, there are many knowledgeable owners here only happy to offer advise, and even help with a build should a free beer be offered in return!
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but every other car club I've been a member of has had really keen/knowledgeable/and enhusiastic leaders, who lead by example, and who members respect because of this knowledge - if the previous posters are correct then the New L7 club 'Top Man' doesn't even own a 7 Duh
As I mentioned in my previous post I don't know him but what gives him the right to lead such a club? Maybe someone can explain for all us normal 'blokes in the street' why he deserves even to be considered for the position by anyone within the L7 club?
There are plenty of real keen lifelong 7 owners out there, why wern't they considered? I've spoken to many who've owned 7's for most of their driving lives. These are the kind of people who make great club leaders.
From the previous occupants of the top posts its clear what the 7 club[or any other club for that matter] needs is a person who can lead by example, not by doing sweet FA and bullying anyone who queried their decisions, like the previous 2 did.
Just my 2 pennath on this subject.
As I mentioned in my previous post I don't know him but what gives him the right to lead such a club? Maybe someone can explain for all us normal 'blokes in the street' why he deserves even to be considered for the position by anyone within the L7 club?
There are plenty of real keen lifelong 7 owners out there, why wern't they considered? I've spoken to many who've owned 7's for most of their driving lives. These are the kind of people who make great club leaders.
From the previous occupants of the top posts its clear what the 7 club[or any other club for that matter] needs is a person who can lead by example, not by doing sweet FA and bullying anyone who queried their decisions, like the previous 2 did.
Just my 2 pennath on this subject.
S47 said:
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but every other car club I've been a member of has had really keen/knowledgeable/and enhusiastic leaders, who lead by example, and who members respect because of this knowledge - if the previous posters are correct then the New L7 club 'Top Man' doesn't even own a 7 Duh
As I mentioned in my previous post I don't know him but what gives him the right to lead such a club? Maybe someone can explain for all us normal 'blokes in the street' why he deserves even to be considered for the position by anyone within the L7 club?
There are plenty of real keen lifelong 7 owners out there, why wern't they considered? I've spoken to many who've owned 7's for most of their driving lives. These are the kind of people who make great club leaders.
From the previous occupants of the top posts its clear what the 7 club[or any other club for that matter] needs is a person who can lead by example, not by doing sweet FA and bullying anyone who queried their decisions, like the previous 2 did.
Just my 2 pennath on this subject.
Sir Alex Ferguson is crap at football apparently.As I mentioned in my previous post I don't know him but what gives him the right to lead such a club? Maybe someone can explain for all us normal 'blokes in the street' why he deserves even to be considered for the position by anyone within the L7 club?
There are plenty of real keen lifelong 7 owners out there, why wern't they considered? I've spoken to many who've owned 7's for most of their driving lives. These are the kind of people who make great club leaders.
From the previous occupants of the top posts its clear what the 7 club[or any other club for that matter] needs is a person who can lead by example, not by doing sweet FA and bullying anyone who queried their decisions, like the previous 2 did.
Just my 2 pennath on this subject.
Good manager though.
Anyway, if the chairman has no "right" to be chairman as he doesn't have a 7, how much right do you have to criticise, bearing in mind you're not a member?
And is it dark in that hole you're digging?
Hi Mal
Good to see your balanced and informed style of posts continue on here following your suspension from posting on Blatchat due to launching personal attacks on other club members.
I suggest you ask your wife if she will let you read her copy of Lowflying from March last year where it was clearly explained to members how they could join the team and succeed either Mark or Adrian as Chairman or General Secretary. I would then recommend you read both January's and February's edition of Lowflying from this year where you will find out about Martin and how he plans to take the club forward although I doubt he will change the Blatchat Code of Conduct to permit personal attacks. Martin has owned a number of Caterham's and is currently looking for another.
Good to see your balanced and informed style of posts continue on here following your suspension from posting on Blatchat due to launching personal attacks on other club members.
I suggest you ask your wife if she will let you read her copy of Lowflying from March last year where it was clearly explained to members how they could join the team and succeed either Mark or Adrian as Chairman or General Secretary. I would then recommend you read both January's and February's edition of Lowflying from this year where you will find out about Martin and how he plans to take the club forward although I doubt he will change the Blatchat Code of Conduct to permit personal attacks. Martin has owned a number of Caterham's and is currently looking for another.
I'm a lifelong 7 Owner/lover - It's my passion, clearly others who own a 7 for only a SHORT time can't understand this point or see the fact that the L7 club is very disappointing.
Maybe & hopefully the new guy will do better [I wonder how many L7 club members would have voted for him, were they to have been asked/ballotted like most 'Normal' Car clubs would have done?] - he doesn't have to do much, to do so
PH ain't BC - anyone with an opinion can post, if you want to express yours go ahead, discussion is good, BC style Bullying & Censorship isn't
Maybe & hopefully the new guy will do better [I wonder how many L7 club members would have voted for him, were they to have been asked/ballotted like most 'Normal' Car clubs would have done?] - he doesn't have to do much, to do so
PH ain't BC - anyone with an opinion can post, if you want to express yours go ahead, discussion is good, BC style Bullying & Censorship isn't
Edited by S47 on Tuesday 26th February 19:33
Funny old world we have here on PH. Threads warning people about the dubious tactics of a certain car company are removed forthwith yet the unsubstantiated bile and vitriol from a disgruntled member of the L7C are allowed to continue. Seems to me that there are double standards at work.
Edited by Smollet on Tuesday 26th February 21:28
Edited by Smollet on Tuesday 26th February 21:32
S47 said:
I'm a lifelong 7 Owner/lover - It's my passion, clearly others who own a 7 for only a SHORT time can't understand this point or see the fact that the L7 club is very disappointing.
Maybe & hopefully the new guy will do better [I wonder how many L7 club members would have voted for him, were they to have been asked/ballotted like most 'Normal' Car clubs would have done?] - he doesn't have to do much, to do so
PH ain't BC - anyone with an opinion can post, if you want to express yours go ahead, discussion is good, BC style Bullying & Censorship isn't
Some of us have had the same enthusiasm as you profess to have had for Sevens for the same or an even longer period.In my case forty four years and counting... Many of us enjoy the Seven Club for what it is rather than whatever it is you think it should be be - I must admit I am none the wiser about what you actually do want , or why. There is a recurrent theme to the effect that 'it's all so unfair ' in your postings but so far as I can establish little, or any, of what you say is founded in reality. You are not a member, I understand, so do give it a rest eh? I am sure you can find other clubs to join where you can meet lots of new friends. Maybe & hopefully the new guy will do better [I wonder how many L7 club members would have voted for him, were they to have been asked/ballotted like most 'Normal' Car clubs would have done?] - he doesn't have to do much, to do so
PH ain't BC - anyone with an opinion can post, if you want to express yours go ahead, discussion is good, BC style Bullying & Censorship isn't
Edited by S47 on Tuesday 26th February 19:33
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff