RE: Caterham CSR
Discussion
The dash and column stalks are simply horrendous. And, also simply, will add weight for zero reason. It's for this that CC would spin most, although I tend to agree with the school of thought that he wouldn't be building this sort of 7 now anyway.
If the chassis changes make the car faster around a circuit, great (front and rear suspension look very tidy). I very much doubt the wings and nose make that much difference at all, but am happy to be proved wrong (even if I were, I'd kep the std. wings).
I doubt we'll ever get the opportunity to see cars in a spec that will demonstrate what the differences in performance actually are for the individual bits.
I also think it sad that all this is focussed on the SV chassis. For those not requiring the extra girth, the std chassis is a much more intimate experience.
Still, that's progress. And I doubt it will hurt 2nd hand values of "normal" chassis'd 7s.
DeR - how are you enjoying the car?
If the chassis changes make the car faster around a circuit, great (front and rear suspension look very tidy). I very much doubt the wings and nose make that much difference at all, but am happy to be proved wrong (even if I were, I'd kep the std. wings).
I doubt we'll ever get the opportunity to see cars in a spec that will demonstrate what the differences in performance actually are for the individual bits.
I also think it sad that all this is focussed on the SV chassis. For those not requiring the extra girth, the std chassis is a much more intimate experience.
Still, that's progress. And I doubt it will hurt 2nd hand values of "normal" chassis'd 7s.
DeR - how are you enjoying the car?
murph7355 said:
I also think it sad that all this is focussed on the SV chassis. For those not requiring the extra girth, the std chassis is a much more intimate experience.
This always gets me - the SV denigrators (This isn't a pop at you btw). I'm 6ft2 and most of 15 stone and the standard car (Which was the long cockpit version before it became standard) is a bloody tight fit. When it comes to fitting my shoulders in, you can forget it - changing gear involves getting the passenger out the way. And when the weather gear is on I can't get in, and if I could I wouldn't see a thing because my view over the screen would be blocked by the hood! And I'm not that big.
The 7 was designed around Chapman, who was not a big man. He was pretty standard size for his era, but people are getting taller (and wider) so the SV makes sense.
There are plenty of people who think the SV is heresy, and many of those will consider the suspension changes are a step too far as well. Which is why:
murph7355 said:
And I doubt it will hurt 2nd hand values of "normal" chassis'd 7s.
I think you're right re values of the "normal" car. It's just those of us with SVs who'll be hit
Does anyone like that new interior? HIDEOUS!
Caterhams have always had that 'cute' factor, but getting inside this car kills that and the ownership experience.
I think the laws of physics dictate that those curved poles will have at least some strut effect, but I doubt it would be enough to effect the cornering given the already racing-style chassis.
If I buy one of these, it will definitely have to have the old dash.
I'm not against them updating the dash per se, but this just isn't at all aesthetic and doesn't suit the car.
Also, how cheap and nasty is that steering wheel?!!
Caterhams have always had that 'cute' factor, but getting inside this car kills that and the ownership experience.
I think the laws of physics dictate that those curved poles will have at least some strut effect, but I doubt it would be enough to effect the cornering given the already racing-style chassis.
If I buy one of these, it will definitely have to have the old dash.
I'm not against them updating the dash per se, but this just isn't at all aesthetic and doesn't suit the car.
Also, how cheap and nasty is that steering wheel?!!
P.S.
Mechsympathy - I too am 6'2" and 15 stone, and I fit easily into my standard 1.6 Roadsport.
I did however, get a lowered floor so I wasn't (quite)looking over the top of the screen, and had to maximise the seating area by fitting a foam driver's seat.
Maybe you should pop to Caterham for a "fitting" - they can get you to fit nicely into a standard 7 - trust me.
In fact, for an example, at the Motorshow they had a standard 1.4 Roadsport which they were giving donut passenger rides in, and that had the leather seats. Me and the driver were both over 6' and it was pretty comfy - I just had to keep my arms in front so they weren't in the way of the gearlever. It was this that convinced me that I could fit in a Roadsport and didn't need the SV - a decision I have not regretted - the Roadsport just looks that bit nicer :c)
Anyway, SVs are in my opinion for "comfortable" long summer blats to France etc., which I don't partake in. For a half hour spin, or trip to the track, it's got to be the standard size 7.
That said, I will try this new one for size ;c)
Mechsympathy - I too am 6'2" and 15 stone, and I fit easily into my standard 1.6 Roadsport.
I did however, get a lowered floor so I wasn't (quite)looking over the top of the screen, and had to maximise the seating area by fitting a foam driver's seat.
Maybe you should pop to Caterham for a "fitting" - they can get you to fit nicely into a standard 7 - trust me.
In fact, for an example, at the Motorshow they had a standard 1.4 Roadsport which they were giving donut passenger rides in, and that had the leather seats. Me and the driver were both over 6' and it was pretty comfy - I just had to keep my arms in front so they weren't in the way of the gearlever. It was this that convinced me that I could fit in a Roadsport and didn't need the SV - a decision I have not regretted - the Roadsport just looks that bit nicer :c)
Anyway, SVs are in my opinion for "comfortable" long summer blats to France etc., which I don't partake in. For a half hour spin, or trip to the track, it's got to be the standard size 7.
That said, I will try this new one for size ;c)
I know I can fit - I've done a slalom day without too many problems.
But I regularly go cross country to see friends 3 hours away, and that doesn't bear thinking about in a standard 7
I will admit though that my hips are a bit too mobile on track, so I'm getting a couple of firm foam pads to velcro in either side so the fit is a bit tighter.
My point is really that at the size I am my SV fits me like a standard car fits someone Chapman's size. So there
(I do still occasionally wonder if I should have spent the same money on an SLR with a lowered floor
)
But I regularly go cross country to see friends 3 hours away, and that doesn't bear thinking about in a standard 7
I will admit though that my hips are a bit too mobile on track, so I'm getting a couple of firm foam pads to velcro in either side so the fit is a bit tighter. My point is really that at the size I am my SV fits me like a standard car fits someone Chapman's size. So there
(I do still occasionally wonder if I should have spent the same money on an SLR with a lowered floor)Fair enough Mech.
BTW, the interior of the CSR doesn't look half as bad when it's black!
See photoshop version here:
www.mycaterham.com/174550/175316.html
I still don't like that steering wheel though! Of course I'm sure that will be an option, and I'll stick with a removable Momo thanks.
I think they just did the "shocking red" to emphasise that it was an all new design and show it off a bit.
BTW, the interior of the CSR doesn't look half as bad when it's black!
See photoshop version here:
www.mycaterham.com/174550/175316.html
I still don't like that steering wheel though! Of course I'm sure that will be an option, and I'll stick with a removable Momo thanks.
I think they just did the "shocking red" to emphasise that it was an all new design and show it off a bit.
murph7355 said:
DeR - how are you enjoying the car?
Murph, unnacceptably little at the mo but if the weather holds out tomorrow I shall be adding some miles to get it past the first service after which, well...you know!
Still, I'm happy to reiterate my feeling that it's the perfect sports car: noise, poise, pace and wackier than a plate of magic mushrooms consumed by Dick Dastardly.
I'll put some pictures up once I've worked out how to operate my ZX81.
DeR.
>> Edited by Derestrictor on Saturday 9th October 10:36
mcgroo said:
I still don't like that steering wheel though! Of course I'm sure that will be an option, and I'll stick with a removable Momo thanks.
I've seen that link, and it does look better in black but I'm still not convinced. It won't be long before someone produces ali indicator stalks which will help it look a bit less "kit".
I'd be a bit concerned about kicking the indicator stalks off if I had a Momo wheel though
>>>I've just had another look, and I really like the angled front to the front wings. (A bit
perhaps
) >> Edited by mechsympathy on Saturday 9th October 10:55
mechsympathy said:
This always gets me - the SV denigrators (This isn't a pop at you btw). I'm 6ft2 and most of 15 stone...
And, with respect, this always gets me too
I'm 6'4" and at my weightiest was 18+st (the scales broke). There was a popping noise when I got out of the car!!
I have owned the same 7 for getting on for 9yrs (it was 18mths old), so it ain't an SV.
With judicious personalisation and acceptance that it isn't a 7 series BMW (and thus was never designed with the same principles in mind - if you want a GT, by a BMW. Or a Ferrari), I fit like a glove.
I find that you cannot drive for more than 2hrs before the fuel runs out (I make little use of the K series economy). At which point I fill up (takes at least a few hours with the crap filler design - have they sorted this? thought not.), have another pie and stick the right boot in to catch up with the Mundanos again.
My car is a 95 chassis with 3 settings for the pedals. It has bench seats (lighter, lower, more length allowed and supremely comfortable for the bigger of build).
Space has only ever been a problem when having someone suitably lardy as a passenger. This has only happened twice, and both fat knackers were still amazed at how quick the car was, if a little small - no room for their kids you see).
I have driven to events on several Le Septs and toured Ireland for 2 wks. I have covered 40k miles in the car, perhaps even a little more.
I have a very good friend who, at 6'5" is simply the wrong dimension to fit (leg/torso length plays a huge part).
But frankly, we are not yet at the point where we are all like this in the UK. It'll take a few hundred years at least for this to happen.
They'll be doing another version next that can take a set of golf clubs. Or two.
Caterham are a specialist manufacturer. They make 600 cars a year, and are not about to release a completely new product. They don't have that sort of money and other manufacturers are better placed to do this.
But we are not a dying breed (or perhaps we are...). There are enough people out there to continue giving them 600 units a year for a long time. So why focus on the big car to the detriment of the car that is the embodiment of what the 7 is about? Getting bigger, wider and heavier like everyone else is not the way too go. No matter how much power you chuck at it.
996gt3rs said:
The best thing about them is the engines! Cosworth brings so much more to the brand than MG ever could.
I'm obviously a bit biased, but I think this statement is somewhat unfair.
The K series engine has been a great source of power for the 7 for the last 10yrs. It filled a hole. What engine could they have used from '94 on that would have provided the right sort of weight, and flexibility to expand the line up like it has been (a little misguidedly recently perhaps)?
Time moves on though, and things progress. But for a lightweight, tuneable powerplant the K series is not that bad, and 10yrs ago was at the forefront. It can sound great too.
>So why focus on the big car to the detriment of
>the car that is the embodiment of what the 7 is
>about? Getting bigger, wider and heavier like
>everyone else is not the way too go. No matter
>how much power you chuck at it.
Here Here!
Also, more power = bigger engine = more weight = loss of agility = a lot less fun.
Leave that nonsense to the likes of Mercedes.
Better to make the interior of the Roadsport more flexible for lardies like myself. The lowered floor was a step in the right direction, as was the new offer of foam seats fitted by Caterham.
We're getting a bit off topic here though... ;c)
>the car that is the embodiment of what the 7 is
>about? Getting bigger, wider and heavier like
>everyone else is not the way too go. No matter
>how much power you chuck at it.
Here Here!
Also, more power = bigger engine = more weight = loss of agility = a lot less fun.
Leave that nonsense to the likes of Mercedes.
Better to make the interior of the Roadsport more flexible for lardies like myself. The lowered floor was a step in the right direction, as was the new offer of foam seats fitted by Caterham.
We're getting a bit off topic here though... ;c)
Anyone know the exact weight yet ? I've seen "guesses" at about 550 kgs which would give 360 brake per tonne(200bhp) & 472 (260 bhp). That's OK by me if the Cosworth turns out to be more reliable than the R400 & R500 when worked hard. Agree with others on the interior styling though.
Presumably the new CSR is offered alongside the existing range, so if you don't like the dash or the front wings, you can simply by an 'old school' seven.
Fair enough; they may increase sales by getting the Audi TT/TVR lot into a CSR with the new interior.
The luddites amongst us (and I used to enjoy leaving the indicator flicking for 200 miles up the M1 as much as Mungo
) can just keep buying the old ones...
Fair enough; they may increase sales by getting the Audi TT/TVR lot into a CSR with the new interior.
The luddites amongst us (and I used to enjoy leaving the indicator flicking for 200 miles up the M1 as much as Mungo
) can just keep buying the old ones...domster said:If you don't like the new dash and interior you can get the CSR with the old style (apparently).
Presumably the new CSR is offered alongside the existing range, so if you don't like the dash or the front wings, you can simply by an 'old school' seven.
More of an issue in my mind is that the CSR is only available in the fatboy SV body. However, the new front and rear suspension look very good.
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