5 speed or 6 speed
Discussion
I had a 1.4SS with a 5 speed and now have an R400D with 6 .Should have been the other way round... The 5 speed was absolutely useless for high revving 1.4-about 10mph in first , but 70 in second and 90 odd in 3rd. The 6 speed is huge fun but rubbish on Motorways. With Duratec torque it's not really needed but hey ho it makes nice noises. First time I drove it the 6 speed felt as though it had a long first and five seconds. The ideal would be 6 speed with overdrive for long hauls but I guess nobody makes those any more.
Just to throw another option into the mix - a bespoke 5 speed with ratios suited to the engine and diff combination you choose. Steve Perks (SPC) built me a brilliant box for my 230 bhp K - long first, second and third, normal 4th and slightly short 5th. Engine revs to 8.5k. The car can make 60 in first and 90 in second (quite quickly!), so it is the opposite of a close ratio box like the 6 speed - but you need an engine that can pull hard enough for it to make sense. I love it on road or track.
Having read many threads on here about the 5 speed vs the 6 speed, I am constantly amazed that hardley anyone mentions using another gearbox supplier altogether! (Keeny.R400 has!)
Just for the sake of mentioning Quiafe, a quick look at their website shows a bewildering array of Type-9 gearbox options which allow you to build a pretty good compromise compared to the 5 speed and 6 speed that Caterham offer. I mean you can get a 6 speed from quaife with an overdrive 6th. That would basically give you 5 close ratios and your "Cruising" 6th.
Then you get to choose all the other cool stuff!
- H-Pattern or Sequential sir?
- Synchromesh or Dog engagement?
- Straight cut or helical gears?
- 4, 5 or 6 speed (They even have a 7 speed squential only unit!).
Just order you car with the 5 speed then sell it on and you get a custom box for nearly the same price as the 6 speed option from Caterham. The 6 speed is worth 3K anyway.
regards,
Adam.
Just for the sake of mentioning Quiafe, a quick look at their website shows a bewildering array of Type-9 gearbox options which allow you to build a pretty good compromise compared to the 5 speed and 6 speed that Caterham offer. I mean you can get a 6 speed from quaife with an overdrive 6th. That would basically give you 5 close ratios and your "Cruising" 6th.
Then you get to choose all the other cool stuff!
- H-Pattern or Sequential sir?
- Synchromesh or Dog engagement?
- Straight cut or helical gears?
- 4, 5 or 6 speed (They even have a 7 speed squential only unit!).
Just order you car with the 5 speed then sell it on and you get a custom box for nearly the same price as the 6 speed option from Caterham. The 6 speed is worth 3K anyway.
regards,
Adam.
The Quaife box is just a carp as the Ford box if you expect it to operate at more than 6500 rpm. This is where it all gets too much for the Type 9's synchros.
The Quaife kits also have some ridiculous ratio sets (2.04 1st gear is good for 60mph+) but it makes the car bog down or require ruthless wheelspin to get off the line quickly. This is even with a 3.92 diff.
So unless you got to Mr Quaife and get a Dog engagement gear set, and live with the harshness and drivablity issues that it has, its not a good choice these days.
The Caterham 6 speed is a great box. its lightweight, puts up with 280bhp and 9500rpm (in my personal experience)and they rarely fail. Early versions had problems with some gears failing as they were cross drilled for lubrictaion, but this only revealed itself as an issue if you had big power, anmd AP Surtrack LSD (which is very hard on the gearbox) and liked to ride kerbs on track.
The only issue with the 6 speed is its ratios, which unless you use a 3.38 diff are a bit of a strain if you are doing long motorway trips. With a 3.92, a 70mph cruise is 4500 rpm. The 3.38 gets that down to 3800rpm. At the other end of the scale, an engine which likes to rev (K Series is a good example compared to low end Duratecs) makes the most of the tight ratios the 3.92 diff offers, giving strong punchy acceleration.
So what you should ask, is amy I buying a 7 for acceleration and handling, or cruising. Then you will choose the right box.
I'll qualify the above with the fact that I have owned and used cars with all the boxes mentioned.
The Quaife kits also have some ridiculous ratio sets (2.04 1st gear is good for 60mph+) but it makes the car bog down or require ruthless wheelspin to get off the line quickly. This is even with a 3.92 diff.
So unless you got to Mr Quaife and get a Dog engagement gear set, and live with the harshness and drivablity issues that it has, its not a good choice these days.
The Caterham 6 speed is a great box. its lightweight, puts up with 280bhp and 9500rpm (in my personal experience)and they rarely fail. Early versions had problems with some gears failing as they were cross drilled for lubrictaion, but this only revealed itself as an issue if you had big power, anmd AP Surtrack LSD (which is very hard on the gearbox) and liked to ride kerbs on track.
The only issue with the 6 speed is its ratios, which unless you use a 3.38 diff are a bit of a strain if you are doing long motorway trips. With a 3.92, a 70mph cruise is 4500 rpm. The 3.38 gets that down to 3800rpm. At the other end of the scale, an engine which likes to rev (K Series is a good example compared to low end Duratecs) makes the most of the tight ratios the 3.92 diff offers, giving strong punchy acceleration.
So what you should ask, is amy I buying a 7 for acceleration and handling, or cruising. Then you will choose the right box.
I'll qualify the above with the fact that I have owned and used cars with all the boxes mentioned.
Or Steve Perks http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/gpage.html
A complete 5 speed with decent ratios and better quality gears is £1500 plus VAT
A complete 5 speed with decent ratios and better quality gears is £1500 plus VAT
Sorry to drag this one up again, but it seems to be the best thread I've found whilst searching for info.
For a Duratec SuperSport R, does anyone have a list of in gear speeds (mph) for each gear? Please state if 5 or 6 speed. Trying to decide of the 5 speed is too long geared or the 6 speed is too short geared for 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear fun on the roads.
For a Duratec SuperSport R, does anyone have a list of in gear speeds (mph) for each gear? Please state if 5 or 6 speed. Trying to decide of the 5 speed is too long geared or the 6 speed is too short geared for 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear fun on the roads.
https://www.tracsport.com/home
They are indeed. I fitted one of Steve’s LSDs a couple of years ago. It’s been brilliant.
They are indeed. I fitted one of Steve’s LSDs a couple of years ago. It’s been brilliant.
Blue 7 said:
https://www.tracsport.com/home
They are indeed. I fitted one of Steve’s LSDs a couple of years ago. It’s been brilliant.
Had my TracSport LSD over a year now, it's been fantastic. Detailed here.They are indeed. I fitted one of Steve’s LSDs a couple of years ago. It’s been brilliant.
6 speed for me (although both my caterhams have be k series to be fair) but it makes the car!
You get used to high revs for longer trips but buzzing along through the gears is just perfect for the car.
Current R500K has Quaife Sequential fitted which is fantastic on track (much less so on the road!!) but it's not the revs that are the problem, rather the clunky nature when not blasting up through the gears.
Had 5 speeds in previous Westfields and moving to the Caterham 6 speed just transformed the 7 experience for me.
You get used to high revs for longer trips but buzzing along through the gears is just perfect for the car.
Current R500K has Quaife Sequential fitted which is fantastic on track (much less so on the road!!) but it's not the revs that are the problem, rather the clunky nature when not blasting up through the gears.
Had 5 speeds in previous Westfields and moving to the Caterham 6 speed just transformed the 7 experience for me.
6-speed for me. I hired a 360R recently and loved it. The next week I put a deposit down on a 6-speed 420R at Silverstone. I took it out for a test drive and it was fabulous. In the 360 I found myself constantly hovering between 3rd and 4th and never feeling quite happy with the ratios. In the 6-speed it felt absolutely perfect revving each gear out.
Can’t wait to pick the car up now.
Can’t wait to pick the car up now.
Horses for courses. My old Sigma Roadsport was perfect with the 5 speed and it's wide spread of torque. It was a very easy car to drive and great on longer runs. My current R400K revels in being kept in the powerband at warp speed with the 6 speed box, and it's a massively involving and fun drive...albeit a little more wearing and frantic on the motorway.
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