Interesting R620 for sale!

Interesting R620 for sale!

Author
Discussion

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Thursday 16th January 2014
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Seems even Caterham think that the other dash layout is a poor as we all thought!

http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1066-seven-62...

I can't believe even cc can be that blinkered as to think that people will pay £50k for a car with the naff gauges they have on the press car!

Edited by nigelpugh7 on Thursday 16th January 21:17

V7SLR

456 posts

185 months

Thursday 16th January 2014
quotequote all
There's nicer cars around at half the price! At £50K+ it really needs to be something special and tick ALL the right boxes, not just the ultimate power one.

thequietone

170 posts

200 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Remember the two cars they currently run are the first off the line so they'll still be finalising things. I quite liked the guages in their cars (apart from the digital speedo which was impossible to read!) but they wont make production. Looks like the ones in the link will be the production guages they showed me a while ago - different style, typeface and size to the 'normal' Caterham stuff.

As for not being special enough - doesn't sound like you've actually looked at one of these things?? "nicer cars around at half the price" not sure about that but these things are of course subjective! ;-)

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
I don't understand what was wrong with the Stack dash layout in the first place?

I have had three Caterham's fitted with the stack dash, and it just seems to suit the race bred flavour of the R series cars.

I had a very good look at the blue 620r on the Caterham stand at Autosports at the weekend.

The three round gauges consist of the central rev counter, a fuel gauge and an oil pressure gauge.

I spent some time asking questions of the guys on the stand about the reasoning behind these gauges,,but they did not seem to know much about them though!

I asked why there was no oil temp gauge or shift lights? I explained that the first thing I do with my R500 when I go on a track day is scroll the display to the screen that shows oil pressure, oil temp and and water temp, then I use the Aces shift lights to let me know when to change gear.

I explained that I felt that was really needed on such a track oriented car.

The response was frankly laughable, " well we have had feedback from existing users that they don't like the stack dash, and no one uses the oil temp display, and there is no need for shift lights on the R620, as it accelerates so fast you would not have time to see them!"

At that point I walked away from the Caterham stand and did not return!

k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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It almost states these chaps were true salesmen and had no concept of what the end user would acutually require, almost as bad as Caterham building the car R&D if any!!! etc and not being able to run it on Track/press release dates, makes what all of us that modify to the upper limits of performance look like super stars

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
k20erham said:
It almost states these chaps were true salesmen and had no concept of what the end user would acutually require, almost as bad as Caterham building the car R&D if any!!! etc and not being able to run it on Track/press release dates, makes what all of us that modify to the upper limits of performance look like super stars
I am inclined to agree!

The first guy I spoke to did explain he was in marketing, and knew nothing about the production cars? I would have thought that a person working in marketing at Caterham cars would know everything anyone would ever ask on a trade show stand!

However he did go and find a so called sales person to answer my questions related to the dash layout and config options!

It was that so called sales guy who came up wit the previous statement about users not liking the Stack dash.

And guess what, he was such a good salesman, that he did not even know that I was an existing owner, and did not even ask my name, let alone take down my contact details!

thequietone

170 posts

200 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Oh dear, lets hope you were speaking to someone who was just there to 'man the stand' rather than any of the sales guys!
I too like the Stack unit but don't really have an issue with it not being included. The 'production' dash arrangement works fine (no oil temp though) and there is a shift light.
In between the rev counter and speedo lives a digital gear indicator that flashes when it's time to grab the next gear.

k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Give the consumer what they want and let them pay for it, I wonder if the paddle shift/ flat shift will be offered as an option? works wonderfully with the Sadev, and protects it too from driver abuse, I took my gear lever off as dispite my best efforts I could never get it right.

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
thequietone said:
Oh dear, lets hope you were speaking to someone who was just there to 'man the stand' rather than any of the sales guys!
I too like the Stack unit but don't really have an issue with it not being included. The 'production' dash arrangement works fine (no oil temp though) and there is a shift light.
In between the rev counter and speedo lives a digital gear indicator that flashes when it's time to grab the next gear.
Yes a fair comment, I did not know if he was a proper sales guy or not, and as he did not introduce himself or even offer his name, I have to say I have no idea who he actually was.

I do like the look of the dash in the 620r that is for sale, I actually quite lie the traditional 5 clock layout.

I don't under stand why any of the 620r cars we have seen so far are not fitted with the Aces shift lights though, they only cost about £260 for the Sureshift 2 system all in.

Surely CC can't be that tight on profit margins on the 620r that they have omitted them due to cost?

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
k20erham said:
Give the consumer what they want and let them pay for it, I wonder if the paddle shift/ flat shift will be offered as an option? works wonderfully with the Sadev, and protects it too from driver abuse, I took my gear lever off as dispite my best efforts I could never get it right.
Really? You took your gear shift lever off on a Sadev sequential box? So which Caterham do you have that has a Sadev box fitted to it?

I believe that even with a paddle shift system, there was no way to select reverse, and you still needed the lever to engage reverse gear?

I could be wrong though, I only had the Quaife 60g Sequential box in my previous R500 , and that was not equipped with any paddle shift system.

SpeedYellow

2,533 posts

226 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Guessing the lack of the Stack is more to do with saving costs on the car over any other reasons.

And like you Nigel, I use oil temp and pressure all the time to work out when its warm enough to push and to keep an eye out for any issues. Would be very strange not to have the info in front of me.

As for too fast for shift lights... oh dear...

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
SpeedYellow said:
Guessing the lack of the Stack is more to do with saving costs on the car over any other reasons.

And like you Nigel, I use oil temp and pressure all the time to work out when its warm enough to push and to keep an eye out for any issues. Would be very strange not to have the info in front of me.

As for too fast for shift lights... oh dear...
Yes a lot of comments have been bandied around to that effect, regarding the cost price of the Stack system to CC!

I was chatting to a well connected and informed person who is a supplier to CC, who told me that CC had asked Stack to get the cost of the system down to £500 net cost, but Stack said no way, and that was basically the start of a rift between CC and Stack.

There was just here say though, and you know that these stories get blown out of all proportion the more they are passed from person to person.

It does sound quite plausible though, just hope that it's not the end of Stack products in Caterhams in the future!

k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Yes no gear lever, Geartronics paddle shift seamless full throttle up shifts and dowm shifts with throttle blip, RPM and torque/position sensing (closed loop)GCU/ECU interface and safty button interlock for reverse,its the Sadev SCL82-17.with overdrive 6th.
RE the gauges traditional to look at stationary, Stack 8130 with limits alarmed to warn of issues, as the gauges are the last thing you look at when pressing on no matter where you are....

thequietone

170 posts

200 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Agreed, ACES are a great, simple system. I did have them on my car in 2002 though and in reality, one light (not sequential) if bright/flashing or both is plenty. I'd say it was a deliberate move by CC to do something different and move forwards. Yes the Stack system is a good piece of kit and yes the ACES shift lights work well but both have been fitted to cars for WELL over a decade now - I personally like the fact I've been challenged to see through my long-term Caterham blinkers and consider something new!

ghibbett

1,900 posts

184 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
nigelpugh7 said:
The first guy I spoke to did explain he was in marketing, and knew nothing about the production cars? I would have thought that a person working in marketing at Caterham cars would know everything anyone would ever ask on a trade show stand!
This sort of thing really annoys me. From experience I would bet money that there are likely a number of Caterham Engineers who would give their right arm to attend the show, but are deemed not to be the 'face' of the company and as such do not get invited. The irony of it is that the customers would likely prefer to speak to the Engineers rather than Sales & Marketing types.

thequietone

170 posts

200 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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YAWN....

Was enjoying that sensible discussion. Didn't take long for the 'we know best'/'our modified car is way better than..' comments to start rolling in.

I'm off.

Enjoy.

nigelpugh7

Original Poster:

5,997 posts

189 months

Friday 17th January 2014
quotequote all
thequietone said:
YAWN....

Was enjoying that sensible discussion. Didn't take long for the 'we know best'/'our modified car is way better than..' comments to start rolling in.

I'm off.

Enjoy.
Really, I am sorry I did not realise I was doing that, just commenting on the R620 on sale at CC, and how it compared to my R500.

Sorry if i have made it boring for you!!

getmecoat

paperbag

k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Would you not want someone to qualify there veiw or opinion based upon real experiance? the whole point is Caterhams efforts of moving their top end offering to the public at large a vehicle that combines heritage with a cutting edge performance drive/spec, how far the 620R is from what they expect is indeed subjective to say the least.We buy on spec and what we want,pay your money and take your chance.

thequietone

170 posts

200 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Haha! No issues with you Mr Pugh, or anyone else in particular, and the thread certainly isn't boring - it's about Caterham's afterall!! We all love our cars and that's what matters. I've had a really good relationship for 20years with the staff at Caterham, both factory and sales/marketing so I try to stay away from the 'they should have...' 'can't believe they've..' 'why don't they listen to us...type threads. I tend to feel rather defensive and would probably post something inflamatory.

As K20 said, everything is subjective and open to differing opinions. Personaly, I love what they've done with the 620R.

hippy


k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Friday 17th January 2014
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Very true indeed, the order books and the bottom line with the customers inbetween is what the reality will be, exciting times for all involved, perhaps like most everything time will tell.