Caterham newbie / another 'which 7?' thread

[ghibbett]

I'm not the best person to answer that, as I've not yet collected my Caterham and my experience is limited to two long weekend hires and a day's drift experience. However I'm sure someone will come along with better answers than I, however I'll try my best on what I do know.

Firstly it's not really a Roadsport, more an ex-Academy/Roadsport hybrid. This is often the case, as has been mentioned earlier, so I wouldn't get hung up on it.

The 3.92 diff would be as opposed to the std Roadsport item which is, I believe, 3.62. The differences are that this effectively lowers the 'steps' between gears i.e. less rev drop-off. This will result in faster acceleration but lower vehicle speeds at a set rpm. IMO a 3.92 diff would be great on a 1.6k with 5 speed 'box.

The fact the car has lots of good options is great, especially the lowered floors, widetrack, Q/R wheel and the FIA bar. For someone in your position I reckon this looks like a cracking bargain, however as with all Caterhams the condition is everything.

As for the heater, someone will be along to let you know how easy it is, but I wouldn't look at it as a deal breaker.

[Pete247]

I am really coming round to the idea of starting with something small and basic like this green/yellow ex academy car, with some of my favoured choice spec items, then using the change from my budget to do an engine upgrade to around the 150bhp mark. I think this will serve me well for 4-5 years before upgrading to a 2.0 duratec down the line.

This is one avenue to go down, but as I previously mentioned, I could also look into older larger engine sevens. If it wasn't for the green interior I think I would go and buy this tomorrow:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

Also sticking with Vauxhall:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
or
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
The second of these I suspect would be a bit of an animal!! And the first one in French Racing Blue seems like outstanding value for money.

Or looking outside the box with a Zetec:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

With all the above 2.0 options I can't help but feel you would be getting a lot more car for the money. But all are about 10 years older and generally a lot more miles. Does reliability become a factor when you approach older / higher mileage sevens?

Also, are there any other websites worth looking at for used Caterhams other than Pistonheads or Caterham website?

Edited by Pete247 on Monday 10th March 15:28

[framerateuk]

The 2.0 Vauxhall is quite a heavy engine from what I've read. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but those who own them have said it feels different to other sevens because of the extra weight up front.

I think an ex adacemy car could suit you well, you could sell on for very little loss if you decided you wanted more power eventually. I still don't feel my 140 Supersport needs any more power, and I'm doing about 5 trackdays a year.

How experienced are you with trackdays? I honestly can't recommend starting with a "slower" car enough. You'll learn a lot. I got passed and left standing by an Sigma Academy car at Pembrey recently, with less power than mine and less grippy tyres - the driver made all the difference! There's a great sense of satisfaction catching up to "faster" cars because you've been driving faster on the corners where it matters .

[Pete247]

framerateuk said:

The 2.0 Vauxhall is quite a heavy engine from what I've read. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but those who own them have said it feels different to other sevens because of the extra weight up front.

I think an ex adacemy car could suit you well, you could sell on for very little loss if you decided you wanted more power eventually. I still don't feel my 140 Supersport needs any more power, and I'm doing about 5 trackdays a year.

How experienced are you with trackdays? I honestly can't recommend starting with a "slower" car enough. You'll learn a lot. I got passed and left standing by an Sigma Academy car at Pembrey recently, with less power than mine and less grippy tyres - the driver made all the difference! There's a great sense of satisfaction catching up to "faster" cars because you've been driving faster on the corners where it matters .

I've done some reading up on the VX engine vs the K and it seems like it's a trade of between reliability vs handling performance - the handling wins for me!

I've done 3-4 track days and Brands and Donny, so not the greatest of experience but enough to leave me wanting more.

I agree with you that the ex academy car will suit me and my requirement, particularly the extra spec found on the one discussed earlier...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...
£12k
PROS:
- Price
- Great spec
CONS:
- No heater
- No hood

I wouldn't know the answer to this having only been looking for Caterhams for a few weeks, but (assuming v.good condition) am I likely to find a better deal than this pop up in the coming months? I have a bit of a compulsive nature when it comes to things I really want and if I am able to get it I don't usually have the patience to wait around for it! If this really is a good value for money deal I'm tempted to go and see it this weekend with the view to buy.

I have seen a couple of others which are equally as tempting, but are more expensive and have different 'CONS' relative to my desired spec....
http://www.sevensandclassics.com/showroom/caterham...
£14.5k
PROS:
- Better exhaust??
- Hood
- Heater
CONS:
- Standard suspension
- Age/mileage
- Price

Or....
http://www.sevensandclassics.com/showroom/coming-s...
£15k
PROS:
- Supersport!
- 135bhp
CONS:
- Cloth seats
- Age

Which of the above 3 cars do people think is the best deal for me?

[ajroberts]

I got my car from Woodcote sports cars. He is a nice bloke, took the time with me. Even though I probably didn't look like a typical person who would buy one. (I was 23, was tired from a long week of work and was wearing a badly ripped jumper as I had been working on my motorbike and completely forgot I said I was going down).
He seems to have a good selection of cars and lets you check the ones out for as long as you like.

I think if you get a caterham with a vauxhall engine in be careful as the one I currently have in mine 1.6L 8v produces 95bhp and to get any real upgrade of power from it will cost way too much, which is why I am changing to the C20xe engine. So just have a look to see which engine it is you are getting.

Saying that for a 'low' powered 7 it goes like sh*t off a shovel and I still beat all of friends in Porsche's and when do change the engine it is going to be even quicker.

I would say go get some test drives in a number of sevens and see what you like and don't like in them.

[Grubbster]

The Academy car for £12k looks like a good intro to 7's. The 3.9 diff was fitted as standard with the 5 speed box (and the 3.6 with the 6 speed). M1 dampers are a little stiffer than the 'normal' M0, they look the same and being an ex-academy car they will have adjustable height platforms which means you can get the car flat floored (which will be handy on track). It says wide-track, from the picture it looks standard to me but it's not easy to tell and to be honest I wouldn't worry either way to begin with. Apollo tank needed for track use so nice to see that plus the wheels are lighter and nicer than the Minilite style (although they are 15" I think and often 13's are preferred). Tillets, removeable wheel, battery master switch, FIA roll over bar - all good! If it is all up together and mechanically sound then it would serve you well and hardly lose value.

If you wanted to upgrade rather than replace then a bit more power from DVA and a LSD (either 2nd hand or about £1000 new) would be nice in a couple of years - or if you really like the idea of big power then sell the car as it is and move on.

Go get a test drive and if you can take someone who knows what they are looking at with you that would make sense.

[Pete247]

Grubbster said:

The Academy car for £12k looks like a good intro to 7's. The 3.9 diff was fitted as standard with the 5 speed box (and the 3.6 with the 6 speed). M1 dampers are a little stiffer than the 'normal' M0, they look the same and being an ex-academy car they will have adjustable height platforms which means you can get the car flat floored (which will be handy on track). It says wide-track, from the picture it looks standard to me but it's not easy to tell and to be honest I wouldn't worry either way to begin with. Apollo tank needed for track use so nice to see that plus the wheels are lighter and nicer than the Minilite style (although they are 15" I think and often 13's are preferred). Tillets, removeable wheel, battery master switch, FIA roll over bar - all good! If it is all up together and mechanically sound then it would serve you well and hardly lose value.

If you wanted to upgrade rather than replace then a bit more power from DVA and a LSD (either 2nd hand or about £1000 new) would be nice in a couple of years - or if you really like the idea of big power then sell the car as it is and move on.

Go get a test drive and if you can take someone who knows what they are looking at with you that would make sense.

Great advice, thank you Grubbster. Probably and obvious question but can I ask what you mean by getting it flat floored? Regarding the wide track, is there a way you can tell the difference with the untrained eye? I'm at Heathrow on Saturday so it would be rude not to swing by for a test drive!!

Did you have any comments on the other two, the BRG Roadsport 130 and Supersport 135? Both are a bit more expensive. Would you say the ex academy is still the better deal? I was thinking about test driving these too but they are the other side of London at Brands. Or I was even thinking about stopping by at Caterham South for some test drives...

[framerateuk]

Before you stop by for a test drive, make sure you have suitable footwear! You'll need a pair of quite narrow shoes or you'll find yourself hitting the brake and throttle at the same time.

I use a pair of Puma Speedcats, but I picked up a pair of cheap trainers in a similar style and they worked well too.

[ghibbett]

framerateuk said:

Before you stop by for a test drive, make sure you have suitable footwear!

That's an extremely good point - don't forgot the narrow footwear.

If you're going to swing by Caterham South, firstly call ahead and make an appointment (speak to Dominic) and secondly, have a look at these two:

http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/808-roadsport...

http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1211-roadspor...

[ghibbett]

ghibbett said:

http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1211-roadspor...

Actually looking again and this could be a bit of a winner:
Under budget
10k miles
Heater
Full weather gear
13"s
Wide track
Tillets
Q/R wheel
Trackday roll bar
Lowered floors

And all purchased from Caterham South. I actually think that looks a bit under-priced, especially as it's being sold by Caterham themselves.

[Pete247]

Thanks guys, great point about the footware. My football trainers should be up for the job.

I've been looking at those two for some time and my eye has been on both. They seem a bit overpriced compared to other traders on Pistonhead though, and the mileage the VVC was offputting - im guessing i'll lose a big chunck of cash after 4 years amd 20k miles?

My new no.1 favorite now is the audi green supersport 135 linked above... wonder when it will be 'available'??

[framerateuk]

Pete247 said:

Thanks guys, great point about the footware. My football trainers should be up for the job.

I've been looking at those two for some time and my eye has been on both. They seem a bit overpriced compared to other traders on Pistonhead though, and the mileage the VVC was offputting - im guessing i'll lose a big chunck of cash after 4 years amd 20k miles?

My new no.1 favorite now is the audi green supersport 135 linked above... wonder when it will be 'available'??

I doubt you'd lose too much, but Caterham's prices will always be higher than private. Keep in mind Caterham will give you a short warranty (3 months I believe) too which you'll need to make sure you use to your advantage to get it all perfect.

Whatever you buy, you need to make sure you've got some cash aside as something will almost definitely crop up that will need fixing. My first service ended up costing £450, plus I had to replace a windscreen thanks to some cracks, new rear tyres, so on top of my car I ended up paying about £1700 within about 3 months. I also needed to replace the throttle cable, throttle stop and seat runners. Nothing major, but again they all cost extra over the price of the car!

Also, you need to consider which seats you want. Different people prefer different ones. Most will agree if you're touring a lot then you'd prefer the leather seats, others are quite happy with the harder Tillet seats. Which ones you prefer are greatly dependant on your height and shape. I'm 5'8" and I love my leather seats (I still fancy those new GT seats though!) as they sit me at the perfect height along with the lowered floors. You really need to sit in a few cars to work out what works best for you though.

[Pete247]

framerateuk said:

I doubt you'd lose too much, but Caterham's prices will always be higher than private. Keep in mind Caterham will give you a short warranty (3 months I believe) too which you'll need to make sure you use to your advantage to get it all perfect.

Whatever you buy, you need to make sure you've got some cash aside as something will almost definitely crop up that will need fixing. My first service ended up costing £450, plus I had to replace a windscreen thanks to some cracks, new rear tyres, so on top of my car I ended up paying about £1700 within about 3 months. I also needed to replace the throttle cable, throttle stop and seat runners. Nothing major, but again they all cost extra over the price of the car!

I suppose the warranty makes the deal a little sweeter. Were any of the above items not covered under the warranty? (assuming you got it from CC) Anyone else had experience with the CC used car warranty? What's covered and what's not?

Buying your first Caterham has got to be one of the hardest things a man can do! I've been set on getting about a dozen different cars already...

[framerateuk]

Pete247 said:

I suppose the warranty makes the deal a little sweeter. Were any of the above items not covered under the warranty? (assuming you got it from CC) Anyone else had experience with the CC used car warranty? What's covered and what's not?

Buying your first Caterham has got to be one of the hardest things a man can do! I've been set on getting about a dozen different cars already...

I bought mine privately so there was no warrantee. In fairness though I had a pretty good deal and if anything my car is probably worth a bit more now than when I bought it thanks to my cleaning it up and getting it running better. I've also kept it to standard Caterham spec, and at the moment I doubt I'll be upgrading it beyond that - that helps hold the value up and also means Caterham will be willing to buy the car from you at a later date (they don't accept modified cars).

Your best bet is to spot what needs to be sorted on the car before you buy and get Caterham to agree to fix them before you collect.

Things can always go wrong, there was one chap on here who bought a K-Series with low mileage and a couple of weeks later it was suffering from head gasket failure (quite common on the K-Series). It's well known how to sort the problem and keep it at bay (I suggest some searching on here/blatchat/google about it!), but it's still quite an expense to sort it.

[ghibbett]

Pete247 said:

Or....
http://www.sevensandclassics.com/showroom/coming-s...
£15k
PROS:
- Supersport!
- 135bhp
CONS:
- Cloth seats
- Age

I could be wrong but this looks more like a Supersport engine upgrade rather than a proper Supersport i.e. spare wheel & carrier, 14"s, no mention of Widetrack. Mind you, Sevens & Classics, much like Caterham themselves, will happily change or add any items you want.

[Pete247]

framerateuk said:

Your best bet is to spot what needs to be sorted on the car before you buy and get Caterham to agree to fix them before you collect.

Things can always go wrong, there was one chap on here who bought a K-Series with low mileage and a couple of weeks later it was suffering from head gasket failure (quite common on the K-Series). It's well known how to sort the problem and keep it at bay (I suggest some searching on here/blatchat/google about it!), but it's still quite an expense to sort it.

I suppose thats another advantage of buying from CC. I don't suppose any private owner would agree to put anything right, and im guessing other caterham traders less willing.

I guess a head gasket would be covered by CC warranty?

I'm planning to arrange test drives at lunchtime for serval cars on Saturday. First stop will be the 12k ex academy, followed by a trip to caterham south where I'll look to drive the black/yellow roadsport and the blue VVC plus something more powerfull hopefully. Then if time permits and it's worth the slog a trip to S&C at Brands to see the BRG Roadsport 130 and the green superspot 135. I should have a good idea after all of that! :-)

[framerateuk]

Pete247 said:

I suppose thats another advantage of buying from CC. I don't suppose any private owner would agree to put anything right, and im guessing other caterham traders less willing.

I guess a head gasket would be covered by CC warranty?

I'm planning to arrange test drives at lunchtime for serval cars on Saturday. First stop will be the 12k ex academy, followed by a trip to caterham south where I'll look to drive the black/yellow roadsport and the blue VVC plus something more powerfull hopefully. Then if time permits and it's worth the slog a trip to S&C at Brands to see the BRG Roadsport 130 and the green superspot 135. I should have a good idea after all of that! :-)

In fairness to a private seller, I wouldn't expect them to put anything right. The car would be sold as seen. It would be the responsibility of the buyer to negotiate a price based on anything that needs to be put right.

I would expect Caterham to cover a head gasket problem within the warrantee period though, but it's probably best that someone with experience of that answers the question.

Edited by framerateuk on Tuesday 11th March 11:39

[Pete247]

Oh by the way is there any classifieds worth looking at other than PH and CC?

[ghibbett]

PH and CC are by far the best, along with Blatchat of course. The other one worth looking at is Car and Classic: http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/

[Pete247]

Overwhelming response by the way, thanks to everyone for sharing the knowledge and being so welcoming!