Caterham newbie / another 'which 7?' thread
Discussion
Right.... so I have spoken to PT Sports Cars, Sevens & Classics and Caterham Cars South for some background and to arrange test drives for Saturday and this is what I found out:
CC
Dominic was not actually around to speak to so left a message to call me back, but I have provisionally arranged to see him late Saturday afternoon. I want to try the black/yellow Roadsport 125 and the blue VVC 150....maybe something else with a bit more punch too just to experience the difference.
PTSC
Spoke to a chap called Ian Payne, very nice guy. So he and his partner come from a Caterham racing background and only really specialise in ex race cars. I'm also informed (by S&C) that unlike CC or S&C, PTSC is not a proper dealership as such and therefore wouldn't offer the same service and warranty, a slight negative. Unfortunately, the green/yellow £12k ex academy will not be available to view this weekend as it has been sent back to the paint shop to have some bits rectified. As I am in the area I will still stop by for a chat and a look around though. Apparently it's had 1 owner who did the Academy season in 2006 before upgrading it to Roadsport A series and competed up until 2010, hence the wide track and uprated dampers. Ian knew of one accident which required substantial repair - a new rear basket. The car has been looked after and maintained by a professional team called Trackcars apparently. When it was retired in 2010 it was these guys who did the work to re-sell as a road car. Work included new panels, re-skin and re-spray, addition of lights/windscreen etc.
S&C
Both the BRG Roadsport 130 and the met. green Supersport 135 sound like serious contenders for me! The RS 130 I have actually seen advertise by the last owner on Blatchat, however S&C have done quite a bit of work to it to get it up to 'showroom standard'. The previous AVO adjustable suspension was very tired and they have replace with all new standard Roadsport suspension and the front wishbones etc generally given a tidy up. It has new tyres all round and a new screen (also comes with interchangeable aeroscreen). Also the previous full roll cage as been swapped with a new FIA roll bar. From the Blatchat advert the owner notes Re. the engine upgrade "Engine has been to DVA, Ported and polished head which was hardness checked and skimmed. VVC Cams, head gasket done, cambelt, blue silicone hoses. 4-1 exhaust without cat (comes with standard exhaust too) exhaust is around 94db. Should be running around 130bhp." Other then that pretty much as advertised.
The SS 135 is indeed a genuine Supersport. Someone suspected previously that it might just have had a SS upgrade due to the minilight wheel and spare wheel, however, I was told the minilights were standard equipment on supersports of this age - can anyone confirm? And the spear wheel I guess was just an optional extra? The reason that it is not available at the moment is because it was found to have some bubbling paintwork to the underside of the side skin so this has been re-skinned and repainted - they are expecting in back this week so fingers crossed I can see/drive at the weekend!
The advantage of getting one from S&C is the 3 month warranty and the fact it will have a full 12k mile service including cam belt.
Anyone else of the opinion now that these 2 cars are a better deal for me than the ex academy?? I think for me the SS 135 is just about edging it, despite the standard cloth seats! (presumably easily upgradable?) It's not just about the extra power, having not competed in 5 seasons of racing has got to count for something?
CC
Dominic was not actually around to speak to so left a message to call me back, but I have provisionally arranged to see him late Saturday afternoon. I want to try the black/yellow Roadsport 125 and the blue VVC 150....maybe something else with a bit more punch too just to experience the difference.
PTSC
Spoke to a chap called Ian Payne, very nice guy. So he and his partner come from a Caterham racing background and only really specialise in ex race cars. I'm also informed (by S&C) that unlike CC or S&C, PTSC is not a proper dealership as such and therefore wouldn't offer the same service and warranty, a slight negative. Unfortunately, the green/yellow £12k ex academy will not be available to view this weekend as it has been sent back to the paint shop to have some bits rectified. As I am in the area I will still stop by for a chat and a look around though. Apparently it's had 1 owner who did the Academy season in 2006 before upgrading it to Roadsport A series and competed up until 2010, hence the wide track and uprated dampers. Ian knew of one accident which required substantial repair - a new rear basket. The car has been looked after and maintained by a professional team called Trackcars apparently. When it was retired in 2010 it was these guys who did the work to re-sell as a road car. Work included new panels, re-skin and re-spray, addition of lights/windscreen etc.
S&C
Both the BRG Roadsport 130 and the met. green Supersport 135 sound like serious contenders for me! The RS 130 I have actually seen advertise by the last owner on Blatchat, however S&C have done quite a bit of work to it to get it up to 'showroom standard'. The previous AVO adjustable suspension was very tired and they have replace with all new standard Roadsport suspension and the front wishbones etc generally given a tidy up. It has new tyres all round and a new screen (also comes with interchangeable aeroscreen). Also the previous full roll cage as been swapped with a new FIA roll bar. From the Blatchat advert the owner notes Re. the engine upgrade "Engine has been to DVA, Ported and polished head which was hardness checked and skimmed. VVC Cams, head gasket done, cambelt, blue silicone hoses. 4-1 exhaust without cat (comes with standard exhaust too) exhaust is around 94db. Should be running around 130bhp." Other then that pretty much as advertised.
The SS 135 is indeed a genuine Supersport. Someone suspected previously that it might just have had a SS upgrade due to the minilight wheel and spare wheel, however, I was told the minilights were standard equipment on supersports of this age - can anyone confirm? And the spear wheel I guess was just an optional extra? The reason that it is not available at the moment is because it was found to have some bubbling paintwork to the underside of the side skin so this has been re-skinned and repainted - they are expecting in back this week so fingers crossed I can see/drive at the weekend!
The advantage of getting one from S&C is the 3 month warranty and the fact it will have a full 12k mile service including cam belt.
Anyone else of the opinion now that these 2 cars are a better deal for me than the ex academy?? I think for me the SS 135 is just about edging it, despite the standard cloth seats! (presumably easily upgradable?) It's not just about the extra power, having not competed in 5 seasons of racing has got to count for something?
Edited by Pete247 on Tuesday 11th March 15:40
Edited by Pete247 on Tuesday 11th March 15:40
Coppice, which VVC do you mean?
Framerateuk, I too like the idea of the aeroscreen for trackdays - must make quite a difference over 70mph. Of course, there is at least one compromise with all 5 of the sevens mentioned (I've accepted the fact that unless you buy new you will rarely find one to your exact liking) and I've read/learnt that condition should always remain king when buying used. I hopefully seeing/driving 4-5 on Saturday so hopefully all this deliberating should be over!! I'm great at making decisions...
SidewaysSi, I also spoke to Callum at S&C and could agree with you more!
Framerateuk, I too like the idea of the aeroscreen for trackdays - must make quite a difference over 70mph. Of course, there is at least one compromise with all 5 of the sevens mentioned (I've accepted the fact that unless you buy new you will rarely find one to your exact liking) and I've read/learnt that condition should always remain king when buying used. I hopefully seeing/driving 4-5 on Saturday so hopefully all this deliberating should be over!! I'm great at making decisions...
SidewaysSi, I also spoke to Callum at S&C and could agree with you more!
ghibbett said:
ghibbett said:
Actually looking again and this could be a bit of a winner:Under budget
10k miles
Heater
Full weather gear
13"s
Wide track
Tillets
Q/R wheel
Trackday roll bar
Lowered floors
And all purchased from Caterham South. I actually think that looks a bit under-priced, especially as it's being sold by Caterham themselves.
I have been a proper geek/anorak tonight and actually wrote a Pros/Cons list of the 5 cars (well I figured my dignity was at rock bottom already driving round in a Swift!), thought it needed to be done as all the cars were beginning to blur into one! Might as well share it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmwf2d1dsp4ma1u/Pro-Con%...
As you can see the Black/yellow RS 120 from CC is a clear winner when it comes to the spec on paper, the only CON I could find being 120BHP. This is closely followed by the Green SS 135 from S&C and then the Blue RS VVC 150 from CC.
Would be interesting to hear thoughts on the list, any 'CONS' not worth worrying about?
Edited by Pete247 on Tuesday 11th March 22:20
Edited by Pete247 on Tuesday 11th March 22:21
Pete247 said:
Coppice, which VVC do you mean?
Framerateuk, I too like the idea of the aeroscreen for trackdays - must make quite a difference over 70mph. Of course, there is at least one compromise with all 5 of the sevens mentioned (I've accepted the fact that unless you buy new you will rarely find one to your exact liking) and I've read/learnt that condition should always remain king when buying used. I hopefully seeing/driving 4-5 on Saturday so hopefully all this deliberating should be over!! I'm great at making decisions...
SidewaysSi, I also spoke to Callum at S&C and could agree with you more!
The VVC 150 referred to above; it's nice engine- very torquey, almost Duratec like . My previous Seven had a SS K then a VVC and although the SS sounded like a 90s BTCC car (well, ish ) the VVC just pulled and pulled. Framerateuk, I too like the idea of the aeroscreen for trackdays - must make quite a difference over 70mph. Of course, there is at least one compromise with all 5 of the sevens mentioned (I've accepted the fact that unless you buy new you will rarely find one to your exact liking) and I've read/learnt that condition should always remain king when buying used. I hopefully seeing/driving 4-5 on Saturday so hopefully all this deliberating should be over!! I'm great at making decisions...
SidewaysSi, I also spoke to Callum at S&C and could agree with you more!
Pete247 said:
Framerateuk, I too like the idea of the aeroscreen for trackdays - must make quite a difference over 70mph. Of course, there is at least one compromise with all 5 of the sevens mentioned (I've accepted the fact that unless you buy new you will rarely find one to your exact liking) and I've read/learnt that condition should always remain king when buying used. I hopefully seeing/driving 4-5 on Saturday so hopefully all this deliberating should be over!! I'm great at making decisions...
I wouldn't worry too much, every 7 is a compromise in one way or another 
The good thing is they're easily upgradable and you can do lots of the work yourself with very little mechanical knowledge!I've got plans to get an aeroscreen myself. Caterham just seem out of stock with the kit, and I need to get the quick remove bolts on either side. It would be just for trackdays though as I enjoy it with a windscreen for road use!
culminator said:
Good luck on Sat Pete. I also have been talking to Callum about a Seven I'm interested in. Seems a good guy and would make me want to deal with S&C.
Thanks! Will be a LONG day but very much looking forward to it.I've bought enough used cars to know the fundamental things to look out for; anyone got any Caterham specific buying advice that I should know before Saturday? I don't know anybody else into Caterhams or kitcars that I can take with me
Edited by Pete247 on Wednesday 12th March 09:43
Pete, after speaking to the guys at S&C myself a few months back and knowing their previous history I've a hunch that whatever they have in stock will be of good quality, or I don't think they'd put their name to it.
As for tips, a 7 is easier to appraise than a Porsche or a TVR for instance, there's not an awful lot hidden.
If you find one, and it has a bit of history, it looks clean underneath and in the engine bay........and goes well then it'll be fine I reckon.
It then just comes down to which one you want and to get a good deal on it.
Good luck from me too.
As for tips, a 7 is easier to appraise than a Porsche or a TVR for instance, there's not an awful lot hidden.
If you find one, and it has a bit of history, it looks clean underneath and in the engine bay........and goes well then it'll be fine I reckon.
It then just comes down to which one you want and to get a good deal on it.
Good luck from me too.
coppice said:
The VVC 150 referred to above; it's nice engine- very torquey, almost Duratec like . My previous Seven had a SS K then a VVC and although the SS sounded like a 90s BTCC car (well, ish ) the VVC just pulled and pulled.
Thanks for the input Coppice. This one is currently my 3rd preference - the engine being the main thing keeping it from being 4th or 5th choice. It has high miles, it's the joint oldest, the most expensive and has the least optional extras to my liking.kenny.R400 said:
Pete, after speaking to the guys at S&C myself a few months back and knowing their previous history I've a hunch that whatever they have in stock will be of good quality, or I don't think they'd put their name to it.
As for tips, a 7 is easier to appraise than a Porsche or a TVR for instance, there's not an awful lot hidden.
If you find one, and it has a bit of history, it looks clean underneath and in the engine bay........and goes well then it'll be fine I reckon.
It then just comes down to which one you want and to get a good deal on it.
Good luck from me too.
Thanks Kenny. With places like S&C and CC South, is there any room for negotiation and haggling, or is the sticker price generally what they sell for? Or are you better of trying to get extra bits n bobs 'thrown in'?As for tips, a 7 is easier to appraise than a Porsche or a TVR for instance, there's not an awful lot hidden.
If you find one, and it has a bit of history, it looks clean underneath and in the engine bay........and goes well then it'll be fine I reckon.
It then just comes down to which one you want and to get a good deal on it.
Good luck from me too.
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