Top Gear Magazine- 160

[scubadude]

Hi All,

Saw in TG magazine (no, I didn't buy it- read it in the library (AKA WHSmiths)) that TG built a 160 and had Kobaycrashie from the F1 team drive it.

Won't say much about the article because frankly, it was pants.

What I will say is the choose to make an all white one and IMVHO it was a stunning colour choice for the "retro" style wheels and width of the 160.

So far only seen the grey and green/blue slightly off coloured test cars in reviews, both also a tad classic but the white really stood out.

I suspect it was only fair of TG to carry an advertorial after the semi-hatchet job the TV show did mocking the 160 and making the 620 do a wet lap!

I know alot of people here have fire breathing 7's but the 160 is appealing to me more every time I see one.

[downsman]

I really like the narrow rear arches, it looks a lot like the Series 2 Lotus Seven which I think was the prettiest.
It just needs some clamshell wings

Evo did an excellent article on the 160, but I can't find it online.

[scubadude]

This one?
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2910...

I think the most important line is- "From 40 to 80mph it’s a genuinely quick little car" ideal for a B and A road machine IMO.

Hopefully when the spring rolls around they'll be some more reviews and youtube videos... trying to work out how I can orchestrate a reasons to 'pass' a showroom to have a go in one :-)

[700newtons]

First post on PH; here goes!

I had a test drive of a 160 and I thought it was great fun.

I am seriously thinking of getting one, although after doing the sums, I don't think that I would have much change from £20,000 for a self build. The things like the roof, paint, lowered floor, leather seats are not essential but I get the impression it is regrettable if you miss them out.

The car seems to get great reviews. I wonder how durable the car will be?

There seems to be a big focus on selling them in Japan. I wonder how many have sold in the UK.

[Eric Mc]

What live axle are they now using?

[scubadude]

700newtons said:

I am seriously thinking of getting one, although after doing the sums, I don't think that I would have much change from £20,000 for a self build. The things like the roof, paint, lowered floor, leather seats are not essential but I get the impression it is regrettable if you miss them out

I'm not an owner either (sadly) but I take it that applying man maths of any kind to what should be an emotional purchase will lead to all kinds of false justifications- just go for it!

On the other hand, seats can be changed and the roof added later... paint might be an up front item though :-)


I have wondered why lowered floors aren't standard fit (for Caterham's convenience if nothing else), is there some disadvantage to them I have missed?

I find the £110 12v socket the most amusing option, if you can build the sodding car surely you have the skills to buy and fit your own for about £5 tops?!

[scubadude]

Eric Mc said:

What live axle are they now using?

AFAIK The whole engine, gearbox, axle (and rear brakes?) arrangement is lifted directly from Suzuki, with fettling to the engine and drive shaft length.

There is an interesting cutaway video here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhxGbsLURw
(Looks like the little Suzuki lump also benefits from a much higher sump that typical of modern Caterham)

[dino ferrana]

scubadude said:

I'm not an owner either (sadly) but I take it that applying man maths of any kind to what should be an emotional purchase will lead to all kinds of false justifications- just go for it!

On the other hand, seats can be changed and the roof added later... paint might be an up front item though :-)


I have wondered why lowered floors aren't standard fit (for Caterham's convenience if nothing else), is there some disadvantage to them I have missed?

I find the £110 12v socket the most amusing option, if you can build the sodding car surely you have the skills to buy and fit your own for about £5 tops?!

On the lowered floors, they are more expensive to produce because they are formed more than the standard floors, plus not everyone needs them. I can imagine if someone is very short they might actually cause problems to see forwards properly.

[Eric Mc]

scubadude said:

AFAIK The whole engine, gearbox, axle (and rear brakes?) arrangement is lifted directly from Suzuki, with fettling to the engine and drive shaft length.

There is an interesting cutaway video here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhxGbsLURw
(Looks like the little Suzuki lump also benefits from a much higher sump that typical of modern Caterham)

Interesting. It was demise of suitable sources of live axles that killed off the original entry level Classic Sevens.

[Farlig]

scubadude said:

AFAIK The whole engine, gearbox, axle (and rear brakes?) arrangement is lifted directly from Suzuki, with fettling to the engine and drive shaft length.

There is an interesting cutaway video here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhxGbsLURw
(Looks like the little Suzuki lump also benefits from a much higher sump that typical of modern Caterham)

Looks like a nice 5 link location of the axle too - rid of the daft A-frame & axle anchor ehh "strengthening" plate too

[BBL-Sean]

Eric Mc said:

scubadude said:

AFAIK The whole engine, gearbox, axle (and rear brakes?) arrangement is lifted directly from Suzuki, with fettling to the engine and drive shaft length.

There is an interesting cutaway video here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QhxGbsLURw
(Looks like the little Suzuki lump also benefits from a much higher sump that typical of modern Caterham)

Interesting. It was demise of suitable sources of live axles that killed off the original entry level Classic Sevens.

Good point. Not likely to be the case with these though, as Suzuki vehicles with this drivetrain are all over the place in Japan, and likely many other Asian countries as well.

[tomwoodis]

The live axle is indeed from Suzuki and is a standard part save for the fact that Caterham got Suzuki to spec it with a unique differential ratio to suit their needs.

The 'clever' bit in all of this is the fact this car can be tuned for different markets. The UK gets the engine in 80PS tune, Japan get it in the more out of the box state of tune as comes from Suzuki of 64ps. I assume this means it meets the KEI class regulations in Japan which will no doubt help Caterham shift a load in Japan.

I wonder if the Japanese tuning market will start producing some interesting mods for this?

[scubadude]

tomwoodis said:

The live axle is indeed from Suzuki and is a standard part save for the fact that Caterham got Suzuki to spec it with a unique differential ratio to suit their needs.

Interesting, suggests it should be a reliable part from my experience with Suzuki.

tomwoodis said:

The 'clever' bit in all of this is the fact this car can be tuned for different markets. The UK gets the engine in 80PS tune, Japan get it in the more out of the box state of tune as comes from Suzuki of 64ps. I assume this means it meets the KEI class regulations in Japan which will no doubt help Caterham shift a load in Japan.

I wonder if the Japanese tuning market will start producing some interesting mods for this?

I can imagine the Japs won't take long to get them back up to 80PS, much more? Some might argue that's sufficent given the weight and stock rubber- anyone seen any through the gear numbers for driving speeds 30-60, 40-70 etc?

[BertBert]

I thought the location of the rear axle was the thing that left a lot to be desired and caused the "Chris Evans" torque steer comments?

[scubadude]

BertBert said:

I thought the location of the rear axle was the thing that left a lot to be desired and caused the "Chris Evans" torque steer comments?

I find it odd that Mr Evans is the only one to have complained about the handling, being a 7's usual forte it seems hard to comprehend?

[Eric Mc]

I only that you would only get torque steer if the driving wheels were also the steering wheels?

[framerateuk]

I think one of these boosted to silly levels could be a right laugh.

I know that's not the idea with the 160, but the lower weight could make it a lot of fun on track.

[scubadude]

framerateuk said:

I think one of these boosted to silly levels could be a right laugh.

I know that's not the idea with the 160, but the lower weight could make it a lot of fun on track.

Is it that much lighter? Certainly wouldn't stay that way if you tried to extract more bhp I'd wager plus I suspect the hubs limit the choice of rubber?

I await a "proper" review still- keeping fingers crossed they let Monkey have a play in one, his Morgan/Caterham piece was a delight IMO.

[framerateuk]

scubadude said:

Is it that much lighter? Certainly wouldn't stay that way if you tried to extract more bhp I'd wager plus I suspect the hubs limit the choice of rubber?

I await a "proper" review still- keeping fingers crossed they let Monkey have a play in one, his Morgan/Caterham piece was a delight IMO.

True. I guess it goes into the way of the Supersport then, which already has thinner rubber than the faster Caterhams.

[CanAm]

scubadude said:

Is it that much lighter? Certainly wouldn't stay that way if you tried to extract more bhp I'd wager plus I suspect the hubs limit the choice of rubber?

I await a "proper" review still- keeping fingers crossed they let Monkey have a play in one, his Morgan/Caterham piece was a delight IMO.

Autocar did a road test a while back. I can't find the figures online, but the braking performance was abysmal (damp track and 'eco' tyres) being the worst of any sports car or tintop tested by them. Quote from their website:- "Away from the lights, the wheezing triple feels every inch the microcar donkey and is utterly bereft of puff by 40mph in second gear. Caterham claims 0-60mph in under seven seconds, but in the wet we couldn’t crack eight seconds and are inclined to think that it wouldn’t go dramatically quicker even in ideal conditions."