Raceline duratec dry sump install
Discussion
mic said:
It can easily be fitted without taking the engine out. Use wellseal to fit the oil pump plate to the block and where the pump mates to the sump. The button head screws go through both plates on the outer side. When you fit the finger filter fit it with the seam facing the back. After the initial running remove this filter and check for any silcon debris.
Thanks for this mic, button head screws now moved and filter turned so seam is at back.Ok, started the install today, so know a little more - just updating this to help anyone else.
The black blanking screw - this is the first thing to go in, under the baffles towards the back of the sump (gearbox end) it fills a little inspection hole - can't get this wrong. Its a tapered fit so gets tight quickly.
The baffles as above are correct, however as mic aluded to the screws weren't correct. On closer inspection you get 3 types of small black screws:
4x button head
5x long socket cap
4x shorter socket cap
9x washers
The washers go with the socket caps. The longer ones go through both plates + spacers (middle holes) - the shorter ones go through only the bottom baffle and the button caps go through both baffles where they are touching. A little bit of threadlock doesn't go amiss here.
As suspected the small aluminium plug taps into the hole at the front of the sump with a little sealant.
The two little spacers/collars go between the pump and the sump itself - to fit them we gently placed the pump in place with the spacers and tightened the bolts evenly (i.e. 90 degrees each at a time) which effectively "pressed" the collars into place.
One thing I didn't realise is you have to remove the front engine cover - so off with the belts, pulley wheels, tensioners etc and then the big tight crank pulley/bolt (tough to get off, took 2 of us and big set of stilsons and a huge breaker bar).
Once you have the timing cover off its all fairly obvious - undo the sprocket bolt on the existing old pump and carefully remove sprocket and let chain dangle. Be careful as if for any reason the timing chain comes off you're screwed. Then remove the old pump by 4 long bolts - the pump/bolts won't be reused. There is a gasket at the back of the pump which comes off too.
Let all the old oil drain out, clean up the surface behind where the pump was, apply wellseal to the surface and the aluminium pump bracket then screw the bracket on - 17-18lb/ft torque to tighten the 2 screws.
Before fitting new pump pour a little oil into it (tiny amount) and turn pump by hand just to lubricate as they are dry assembled and this stops a little wear on initial start.
Now offer up the new pump to the bracket and wiggle into place. Get sprocket/chain and fit to pump (be aware it is keyed - get the correct side to the pump to make the flat parts align) - once done tighten sprocket bolt to 20lb/ft.
Thats as far as we got today.....all that is left to do is apply wellseal to pump/sump mating faces, attach the sump to the bottom of the engine (we are using a hylomar aerospace sealant rather than RTV - hateful stuff), attach the front cover and tighten everything up.
We also removed the old oil cooler, the mocal filter sandwich plate and hoses feeding the cooler, and I'll install the correct cooler with -12 fittings in series between scavenge pump and tank.
The black blanking screw - this is the first thing to go in, under the baffles towards the back of the sump (gearbox end) it fills a little inspection hole - can't get this wrong. Its a tapered fit so gets tight quickly.
The baffles as above are correct, however as mic aluded to the screws weren't correct. On closer inspection you get 3 types of small black screws:
4x button head
5x long socket cap
4x shorter socket cap
9x washers
The washers go with the socket caps. The longer ones go through both plates + spacers (middle holes) - the shorter ones go through only the bottom baffle and the button caps go through both baffles where they are touching. A little bit of threadlock doesn't go amiss here.
As suspected the small aluminium plug taps into the hole at the front of the sump with a little sealant.
The two little spacers/collars go between the pump and the sump itself - to fit them we gently placed the pump in place with the spacers and tightened the bolts evenly (i.e. 90 degrees each at a time) which effectively "pressed" the collars into place.
One thing I didn't realise is you have to remove the front engine cover - so off with the belts, pulley wheels, tensioners etc and then the big tight crank pulley/bolt (tough to get off, took 2 of us and big set of stilsons and a huge breaker bar).
Once you have the timing cover off its all fairly obvious - undo the sprocket bolt on the existing old pump and carefully remove sprocket and let chain dangle. Be careful as if for any reason the timing chain comes off you're screwed. Then remove the old pump by 4 long bolts - the pump/bolts won't be reused. There is a gasket at the back of the pump which comes off too.
Let all the old oil drain out, clean up the surface behind where the pump was, apply wellseal to the surface and the aluminium pump bracket then screw the bracket on - 17-18lb/ft torque to tighten the 2 screws.
Before fitting new pump pour a little oil into it (tiny amount) and turn pump by hand just to lubricate as they are dry assembled and this stops a little wear on initial start.
Now offer up the new pump to the bracket and wiggle into place. Get sprocket/chain and fit to pump (be aware it is keyed - get the correct side to the pump to make the flat parts align) - once done tighten sprocket bolt to 20lb/ft.
Thats as far as we got today.....all that is left to do is apply wellseal to pump/sump mating faces, attach the sump to the bottom of the engine (we are using a hylomar aerospace sealant rather than RTV - hateful stuff), attach the front cover and tighten everything up.
We also removed the old oil cooler, the mocal filter sandwich plate and hoses feeding the cooler, and I'll install the correct cooler with -12 fittings in series between scavenge pump and tank.
The blanking plate uses the OE rubber gasket that fits in a groove. I'm guessing your engine has the breather already blanked off so you may not need to fit the new plate. It is important (with a dry sump) that the sump is not connected to the induction vacuum as this will work against the scavenge pump. Instead a catch tank is usually used at the the tank vent to catch any oil that gets blown out with the blow-by (particularly if over filled).
My breather currently comes from the outlet in the top of the engine and is t-pieced to the breather under the induction side which goes out to a catch tank (sports bottle 
), so I will need this blanking plate.
Sounds easy enough, just re-route the top outlet to the dry sump tank (which has a 2nd outlet down to the catch tank) and install the blanking plate.
), so I will need this blanking plate.Sounds easy enough, just re-route the top outlet to the dry sump tank (which has a 2nd outlet down to the catch tank) and install the blanking plate.
I would suggest then that you remove the T and lower hose and use the blanking plate. The top breather should then go direct to the tank and the tank vents to the catch tank as discussed above. Much of the venting of the sump will happen via the scavenge pump, so it is important to vent the tank.
More progress today - sump and front cover fitted and sealed, pulleys re-assembled and new drive belt fitted. All that remains is to add hoses, fit oil tank and move header tank. Out of all of that I think moving the header tank is going to be the most complicated.
Does anyone know (or even better have pics) of where caterham place the header tank when an oil tank is fitted? I saw DCLs picture when he moved it to the side, is this what others do? How is it mounted, do Caterham sell a mount?
Final question, with the dry sump fitted the bell-housing sits a fair bit below the sump level - does anyone sell a skid plate or similar to reduce the abruptness of the impact should I hit a speed hump?
Does anyone know (or even better have pics) of where caterham place the header tank when an oil tank is fitted? I saw DCLs picture when he moved it to the side, is this what others do? How is it mounted, do Caterham sell a mount?
Final question, with the dry sump fitted the bell-housing sits a fair bit below the sump level - does anyone sell a skid plate or similar to reduce the abruptness of the impact should I hit a speed hump?
Ok, almost there. Hoses somewhat fitted but I wasn't happy with the position of one of them, so have ordered a few bits n pieces to make it easier.
One question for anyone who can answer. The breather outlet at the top of the engine is roughly 19mm, the breather inlet on the dry sump tank is 13mm. Will this matter? When having the tank speccd I spoke to Brise who advised having 2 breather ports on the top of the tank, so you could run from engine to tank, and have a 2nd one breathing the tank - they knew I was on a duratec and never asked what size these ports were to be, so I didn't specify. So am I ok to reduce the 19mm breather down to 13mm, or does this risk damage to the engine?
TBH I'm not overly impressed with the breather outlet position on this tank, it points straight forward to the top of the engine, making it a difficult fit - had I known it would come like this I may have done something different.
One question for anyone who can answer. The breather outlet at the top of the engine is roughly 19mm, the breather inlet on the dry sump tank is 13mm. Will this matter? When having the tank speccd I spoke to Brise who advised having 2 breather ports on the top of the tank, so you could run from engine to tank, and have a 2nd one breathing the tank - they knew I was on a duratec and never asked what size these ports were to be, so I didn't specify. So am I ok to reduce the 19mm breather down to 13mm, or does this risk damage to the engine?
TBH I'm not overly impressed with the breather outlet position on this tank, it points straight forward to the top of the engine, making it a difficult fit - had I known it would come like this I may have done something different.
I would have thought that 13mm will be adequate in most cases, but may depend on the condition of the engine. Also if you are revving to 8750 rpm, then I'd keep an eye on things - possibly testing it by leaving the engine end unfastened to see if it blows off. The crank seal on the Duratec is is bolted on at the rear and the front one is unlikely to move (and easy to replace) so it's unlikely you'll do any serious damage.
Edited by DCL on Wednesday 2nd July 19:20
DCL said:
I would have thought that 13mm will be adequate in most cases, but may depend on the condition of the engine. Also if you are revving to 8750 rpm, then I'd keep an eye on things - possibly testing it by leaving the engine end unfastened to see if it blows off. The crank seal on the Duratec is is bolted on at the rear and the front one is unlikely to move (and easy to replace) so it's unlikely you'll do any serious damage.
Thanks, I did figure you need less breather capacity because of the dry sump, but wanted to be sure...I'll test with it unfastened.Final fittings should be here tomorrow/friday,hoping to have it fired up at the weekend. The proximity of the sump inlet/outlet to the chassis bars (imperial chassis) has been a bit of an issue, but should be solved with speedflow fittings - pricey but substantially more compact than anything else.
It lives!!!
Had a bit of a panic at first start as it took a good few seconds to see pressure on the gauge but after that no problems. Pressure reading 50lb initially and dropping to 45 after a few minutes running. Revs up nicely, no visible leaks under idle.....now if I could just get the weather to cooperate so I can go for a drive!
NOT a job I'd want to do again.
Had a bit of a panic at first start as it took a good few seconds to see pressure on the gauge but after that no problems. Pressure reading 50lb initially and dropping to 45 after a few minutes running. Revs up nicely, no visible leaks under idle.....now if I could just get the weather to cooperate so I can go for a drive!
NOT a job I'd want to do again.
Sadly these are still being sent without instructions, but the good news is I have it finally!
I’ll point my engine builder in the direction of this thread unless anyone has a PDF of the official instructions?
While I’m here, has anyone got a diagram of how to plumb the whole thing up if I want to include a cooler?
I’ll point my engine builder in the direction of this thread unless anyone has a PDF of the official instructions?
While I’m here, has anyone got a diagram of how to plumb the whole thing up if I want to include a cooler?
Hi all,
Interesting reading this thread, but in my experience this should only be installed by someone who knows what they are doing.
"mistakes can be very expensive"!!
To fit this properly the front cover needs to be removed to access the oil pump drive sprocket and chain. Some of you may not be aware but on standard Duratec engines, the crankshaft damper pulley that has to be removed prior to removing the front cover is not key wayed onto the crankshaft. Neither is the crankshaft drive sprocket located behind this. This means as soon as you remove this damper pulley bolt, the cam timing is altered.
Cam timing should be measured prior to removing this so that it can be reset once the work has been carried out.
Regards
SKC
Interesting reading this thread, but in my experience this should only be installed by someone who knows what they are doing.
"mistakes can be very expensive"!!
To fit this properly the front cover needs to be removed to access the oil pump drive sprocket and chain. Some of you may not be aware but on standard Duratec engines, the crankshaft damper pulley that has to be removed prior to removing the front cover is not key wayed onto the crankshaft. Neither is the crankshaft drive sprocket located behind this. This means as soon as you remove this damper pulley bolt, the cam timing is altered.
Cam timing should be measured prior to removing this so that it can be reset once the work has been carried out.
Regards
SKC
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