Raceline duratec dry sump install

[GreigM]

So first thing I want to do with the car is install a dry sump. Caterham/Raceline sump ordered and delivered today. First problem - no instructions, so hoping people on here with experience of this sump can help out. I'll document the procedure as I go along also.

Firstly, here's what you receive (including optional breather blanking plate):


So my very first question (to make sure I ordered the tank correctly) - are the inlet/outlet to the passenger side of the engine?

I'm assuming I can assemble most of this off-engine, so here's what I've figured out. Easy stuff first - the inlet/outlet (-12 size):


Now the first part I really want someone to veryify - how to install the 2 baffles. In the kit there is a bag of small bolts, simple counting of holes to screws indicates these are for the baffles:


I assume the larger baffle gets laid down first directly onto the sump and the 4 button cap bolts secure it to the sump:


I'm then assuming the 5 little spacers go between the 2 baffles and the remaining 9 socket cap bolts + washers simply bolt it all together, meaning you have sump->large baffle->spacer->small baffle->washer->bolt:


I'd really like confirmation that this is the correct sequence and orientation of baffles, and if anyone can suggest tightening torques (for everything) that would be great?

Edited by GreigM on Monday 16th June 16:14

[GreigM]

Next up is a bag with these parts:


Which I assembled some like so:


and I assume they go into this hole in the sump:


to look like this:


I'm assuming this is just an inline filter which can catch crap in the oil before it screws the pump, and it can be removed to be checked/cleaned.

This leaves a small black blanking plug and a small aluminium plug/spacer like so:


Does it go in here? I'm assuming with the threaded part out in order to help removing it? Do I just tap in with a hammer?

[GreigM]

If so that leaves the small black blanking plug - I see nowhere on the sump for this, so presume it goes into the engine itself somewhere?

Next up I've got a bag of socket cap bolts, which I assume are the sump bolts themselves:


I'm assuming the 4 silver ones are the outer holes and the gold ones are the inner ones as loosely laid out below?


Again, any idea of tightening torque.

Also, no gasket was supplied - do these need a gasket or is it only RTV?

[GreigM]

Final post for just now, fitting the pump to the sump - I'm assuming I should/can do this before dropping the old sump.
I have the pump itself, which is easy to site on the sump, it seems to be secured from underneath with 3 bolts, but the bag of bits I have left is this:

I'm assuming the 3 socket caps (2 silver, 1 black) are needed here, so guessing at their sizes I've loosely arranged them in these holes, but I would love someone to confirm this is correct:


that leaves me with these parts:


A weird kidney shaped metal thing, 2 screws and 2 collars/spacers - no clue what to do with any of these, can only gues the kidney thing fits on like this:

[DCL]

Looking good!

I'm surprised no one (who has fitted one of these) has come along to help you yet. I've only fitted the Titan/Cosworth type but all you've done looks OK to me so far. Standard Torque settings can be found by googling ( e.g. https://www.swtc.edu/ag_power/diesel_engines/lectu... ) but the Ford specific ones are worth finding out. Loctite the windage tray screws which shouldn't be over tightened.

Are you taking the engine out to do this? The extra effort may make it easier to remove the old pump and fit the adapter that new pump slides onto. One tip I found useful was to pay attention to where the RTV sealant needs to go as the block and sump are not the same shape - and don't overdo the sealant as it can end up blocking oilways in the engine.

[GreigM]

Thanks David. Wasn't planning on removing engine as I'm told this can be done easily without the need for removal, so will give that a try first - have the facility to remove the engine if needed, just would rather avoid it.

When you talk about an adapter that the new pump slides into - there is no adapter in the kit, I guess I'll figure all that out when I get the existing sump off. I have a feeling I'll be on the phone to raceline a fair bit!

[DCL]

GreigM said:

Thanks David. Wasn't planning on removing engine as I'm told this can be done easily without the need for removal, so will give that a try first - have the facility to remove the engine if needed, just would rather avoid it.

When you talk about an adapter that the new pump slides into - there is no adapter in the kit, I guess I'll figure all that out when I get the existing sump off. I have a feeling I'll be on the phone to raceline a fair bit!

This is the bit I meant - it bolts on where the old pump went. Then the new pump will slide in, as per your photo, and be held in place by the sump.

Edited by DCL on Tuesday 17th June 13:46

[GreigM]

ah, that makes sense.....

Another question on general setup (not specifically for DCL, although his advice is most welcome). I've been measuring for hoses and the current oil cooler looks to only have -8 fittings (welded on, so can't change). Is there any real harm in leaving the cooler plumbed in as-is and just having the dry sump tank separate - so the oil cooler is now nothing really to do with the dry sump? Or is this fundamentally bad?

I don't want to reduce the hoses in the dry sump to go through the cooler (I figure there is a reason they were made -12), and I certainly don't want to have to buy a new cooler to make the hoses work - if thats the case it will be a modine/lamanova unit (which I'd rather not spend on at the moment).

[DCL]

Sorry don't want to monopolies the thread but this rings bells. The wet sump uses a cooler on the high pressure side of the pump and hoses are of smaller diameter. The kit I got from Caterham included a new cooler and bigger pipes as it runs at low (scavenge) pressure. Fittings aside, there no difference with the cooler just, as you say, they are -12 size fittings. Might still have the cooler if you are interested.



Edit: In answer to your question - It can't be an issue with leaving it as it is, although Caterham must have a reason for changing it (you would have thought).

Edited by DCL on Tuesday 17th June 14:46

Edited by DCL on Tuesday 17th June 14:59

[scz4]

Sorry to hijack, but on a related topic how reliable are these dry sumps? I've read a bit online about belts snapping, coming off etc and then causing damage to the engine. Probably great for race or track cars, but are you better off with a baffled sump for road use and the occasional track day?

[GreigM]

scz4 said:

Sorry to hijack, but on a related topic how reliable are these dry sumps? I've read a bit online about belts snapping, coming off etc and then causing damage to the engine. Probably great for race or track cars, but are you better off with a baffled sump for road use and the occasional track day?

This is why I've gone for this sump, there is no external pump and no belt to come off/snap. Generally though, as long as the design is good and the belt is changed at correct intervals there should be no issues - a lot of people have problems as they don't ever change the belt.

[scz4]

GreigM said:

This is why I've gone for this sump, there is no external pump and no belt to come off/snap. Generally though, as long as the design is good and the belt is changed at correct intervals there should be no issues - a lot of people have problems as they don't ever change the belt.

Thanks. Do you know what the intervals are?

[GreigM]

scz4 said:

Thanks. Do you know what the intervals are?

Depends entirely on the kit/belt used - all different.

[anonymous-user]

GreigM said:

scz4 said:

Sorry to hijack, but on a related topic how reliable are these dry sumps? I've read a bit online about belts snapping, coming off etc and then causing damage to the engine. Probably great for race or track cars, but are you better off with a baffled sump for road use and the occasional track day?

This is why I've gone for this sump, there is no external pump and no belt to come off/snap. Generally though, as long as the design is good and the belt is changed at correct intervals there should be no issues - a lot of people have problems as they don't ever change the belt.

Excuse my ignorance but what drives the pump on your set up, and is this what Caterham fit to the engines now coming out of their factory, or are they belt driven?

[GreigM]

REALIST123 said:

Excuse my ignorance but what drives the pump on your set up, and is this what Caterham fit to the engines now coming out of their factory, or are they belt driven?

Its a single internal pump to do both pressure and scavenge...yes, it is what caterham fit in factory now.

[anonymous-user]

GreigM said:

REALIST123 said:

Excuse my ignorance but what drives the pump on your set up, and is this what Caterham fit to the engines now coming out of their factory, or are they belt driven?

Its a single internal pump to do both pressure and scavenge...yes, it is what caterham fit in factory now.

Thanks. How is it driven?

[GreigM]

REALIST123 said:

Thanks. How is it driven?

It replaces the existing pump (I believe, haven't gotten that far yet) - driven by internal chain.

[anonymous-user]

GreigM said:

REALIST123 said:

Thanks. How is it driven?

It replaces the existing pump (I believe, haven't gotten that far yet) - driven by internal chain.

Ah, I see. From the camshaft, I presume.

[mic]

It can easily be fitted without taking the engine out. Use wellseal to fit the oil pump plate to the block and where the pump mates to the sump. The button head screws go through both plates on the outer side. When you fit the finger filter fit it with the seam facing the back. After the initial running remove this filter and check for any silcon debris.

[GreigM]

DCL said:

Might still have the cooler if you are interested.

David, have PM'd you about the cooler, let me know if you don't receive it...