Caterham 6 to Sadev Anyone done it?
Discussion
This time last year I was pondering the possibility of upgrading my engine and a year later I have a 270BHP screamer. All covered here
Well it's time to move on and I've decided to go sequential and a nice new Sadev box arrived this week.
The plan is to get it installed and working and then working with a Geartronics flatshift. Longer term, (and really just for the technical challenge) look at a paddle shift with throttle blipper.
Anyway before I get too carried away, is there anyone who's installed one and knows the pitfalls. In particular I'm interested if the standard prop-shaft is up to the job?
Well it's time to move on and I've decided to go sequential and a nice new Sadev box arrived this week.
The plan is to get it installed and working and then working with a Geartronics flatshift. Longer term, (and really just for the technical challenge) look at a paddle shift with throttle blipper.
Anyway before I get too carried away, is there anyone who's installed one and knows the pitfalls. In particular I'm interested if the standard prop-shaft is up to the job?
Std prop absolutely not. You need 2.5" tube with some kind of cushioning - contentrics are OK, but I found I twisted them so they went out of balance.
You also need a small clutch and very light flywheel to get the best out of the box. Small clutches don't last many miles.
I wmet from a Quaife back to std 6 speed on my current car.
You also need a small clutch and very light flywheel to get the best out of the box. Small clutches don't last many miles.
I wmet from a Quaife back to std 6 speed on my current car.
Oooh interesting, as you know I went from a bike engined westie to my current caterham with the 6 speed and really miss the sequential - I reckon it was worth a least a second a lap around Knockhill. I am going to try and adjust the pedals and see if I can get on with the 6-speed but have this as a definite consideration for over the winter, so very glad you are learning the lessons first 
I'm assuming it has a reverse gear?
Is the throttle blipping difficult to achieve? I would have hoped the gearbox has a simple control wire you could connect to an ECU which it sends a signal when you push the lever forward to go down a gear adn the ECU blips the revs up - but assume its more complicated than that or it would be done already. As for the geartronics for the flatshift - again, seems a simple case of the gearbox sending a signal that the up direction has been pulled and the ECU cuts the spark and the box slips up a gear - what does the geartronics kit do (and is it expensive)? Sorry for the questions, has all been on my mind. I have a lot of experience of how it is achieved on bike gearboxes as I've installed the full flatshifter kit including spark cut on the upshift, blip on the downshift and paddles so have intimate details on how all that works, so if that knowledge is any use ask away....and if you're quick I can even get pics before I sell the westie.
As for paddles themselves, I didn't notice any real difference in lap times between paddles and the lever shift, for me the big benefit is the quick downshift meaning you can brake harder and later without worrying about locking the back wheels through a mistimed heel/toe, the upshift helps but not as much.
I'm assuming it has a reverse gear?
Is the throttle blipping difficult to achieve? I would have hoped the gearbox has a simple control wire you could connect to an ECU which it sends a signal when you push the lever forward to go down a gear adn the ECU blips the revs up - but assume its more complicated than that or it would be done already. As for the geartronics for the flatshift - again, seems a simple case of the gearbox sending a signal that the up direction has been pulled and the ECU cuts the spark and the box slips up a gear - what does the geartronics kit do (and is it expensive)? Sorry for the questions, has all been on my mind. I have a lot of experience of how it is achieved on bike gearboxes as I've installed the full flatshifter kit including spark cut on the upshift, blip on the downshift and paddles so have intimate details on how all that works, so if that knowledge is any use ask away....and if you're quick I can even get pics before I sell the westie.
As for paddles themselves, I didn't notice any real difference in lap times between paddles and the lever shift, for me the big benefit is the quick downshift meaning you can brake harder and later without worrying about locking the back wheels through a mistimed heel/toe, the upshift helps but not as much.
I'd love to pick your brains on your experience with the Westie - maybe up at KH on day. I'm really still researching, but have bought the box and the Geartronics ECU. The Sadev is purpose built straight cut box with proper dog engagement and is really only intended for racing. It has a reverse gear below 1st (the cable from the stick is used to unlock it).
Sadev boxes have a hall effect gear position sensor with a change switch. The Geartronics ECU pugs straight in and provides closed loop flatshift using torque reduction, if your engine ECU supports it. Down shifts are more difficult as the larger engines need to overcome the inertia as quickly as possible. That usually means physically opening the throttle with an actuator (pneumatic). I've built the engine with this in mind, so it does have lightweight pulley, flywheel, and a small twin-plate clutch. But there are still significant challenges in engineering it.
Sadev boxes have a hall effect gear position sensor with a change switch. The Geartronics ECU pugs straight in and provides closed loop flatshift using torque reduction, if your engine ECU supports it. Down shifts are more difficult as the larger engines need to overcome the inertia as quickly as possible. That usually means physically opening the throttle with an actuator (pneumatic). I've built the engine with this in mind, so it does have lightweight pulley, flywheel, and a small twin-plate clutch. But there are still significant challenges in engineering it.
Edited by DCL on Saturday 12th July 22:14
Buy the Sadev form Caterham, decent prices and all the modificaitons done to suit, especially the diiferent shift lever - massive difference.
Then speak to Simon at Meteor - he has done a ton of work on shifting systems, i beleive he know has a cracking paddle shift system for the Sadev.
Then speak to Simon at Meteor - he has done a ton of work on shifting systems, i beleive he know has a cracking paddle shift system for the Sadev.
Thanks James and IBDAET for your input. The gearbox has been purchased from SWR and is (I'm told) modified to latest Caterham spec, but I've been doing this sort of thing long enough to know there are no certainties in this world. Certainly the rear mount looks like it will need modified or a different rubber mount fitted.
Talking to others, including Caterham, it seems there are two options for prop-shafts. Get one made, or use the R300 race item, but (according to Caterham parts) the R300 race item has been discontinued but is replaced with the R600 shaft. My understanding is the R600(not to be confused with the 620R)used the Ford diff, but it's all getting a bit confusing - can anyone confirm?.
Talking to others, including Caterham, it seems there are two options for prop-shafts. Get one made, or use the R300 race item, but (according to Caterham parts) the R300 race item has been discontinued but is replaced with the R600 shaft. My understanding is the R600(not to be confused with the 620R)used the Ford diff, but it's all getting a bit confusing - can anyone confirm?.
Edited by DCL on Tuesday 15th July 09:28
I've just received what Caterham are using on their 2014> sequential cars. It appears to be a a heavier gauge tube (but still 2 inch) with significantly bigger yokes. The flange is to the Ford pattern and the length is the same as the earlier Duratec/Ford diff cars. Not sure if the 620 uses the Ford diff, or just the Ford flange? Anyway, the paper work suggest it fits the 620 too.
For Steve Waudby. He serviced the Sadev box on my old clio cup car about 8 times and is reasonably priced and knows his stuff. Nice chap as well!DCL
If you want to give me a ring regarding the flatshift etc I can certainly save you time and money by pre empting any future upgrades - doing some now for a little more cost now - saving lots later on.
Look on my site as I have just added 2 620R shift kit options.
What ECU are you running? - You may not need the Geartronics box depending on the answer.
If you want to give me a ring regarding the flatshift etc I can certainly save you time and money by pre empting any future upgrades - doing some now for a little more cost now - saving lots later on.
Look on my site as I have just added 2 620R shift kit options.
What ECU are you running? - You may not need the Geartronics box depending on the answer.
DCL said:
I've just received what Caterham are using on their 2014> sequential cars. It appears to be a a heavier gauge tube (but still 2 inch) with significantly bigger yokes. The flange is to the Ford pattern and the length is the same as the earlier Duratec/Ford diff cars. Not sure if the 620 uses the Ford diff, or just the Ford flange? Anyway, the paper work suggest it fits the 620 too.
I recall reading that the 620R uses the Ford diff since the newer BMW one can't deal with the increased torque.We are running in the r300 and have done the gearbox swap, if you use the new prop you will have to widen the chassis tubes to fit the new propshaft,
Also make sure the new prop has the splines that don't run to the end of the shaft as they have had a prop failure with this type, you will also need to lock tight the gear lever as they work loose as with the reverse cable adjuster.
Great gearbox,
Pm me if you want to discuss anything ?
Craig
Also make sure the new prop has the splines that don't run to the end of the shaft as they have had a prop failure with this type, you will also need to lock tight the gear lever as they work loose as with the reverse cable adjuster.
Great gearbox,
Pm me if you want to discuss anything ?
Craig
DCL said:
That's interesting - I had suspected they might be using it because the Titan diff was not available for the BMW. It was just a guess though!
Quite possible too! I've tried to find where I read it but can't seem to find the link. I'm pretty sure it was somewhere on Blatchat though.Hatter has a Sadev in YOB.
See: http://www.7-dna.com/forums/index.php?action=vthre...
Might be worth posting him a message to see what he found when fitting it?
See: http://www.7-dna.com/forums/index.php?action=vthre...
Might be worth posting him a message to see what he found when fitting it?
framerateuk said:
DCL said:
That's interesting - I had suspected they might be using it because the Titan diff was not available for the BMW. It was just a guess though!
Quite possible too! I've tried to find where I read it but can't seem to find the link. I'm pretty sure it was somewhere on Blatchat though.Theres a 620S in development with a Mazda H pattern gearbox , not sure what thats running Diff wise .
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