How does a new engine effect valuation?
Discussion
Toaster said:
How does anyone know they service their car 'better' than any garage?
Mine is always serviced by Caterham never had an issue I have kept the car standard and whilst its now nearly 10 years old looks in better condition (IMHO) than many year to 18 month old cars
So a potential buyer has a clear owner history, a clear history of the service record and that must have a certain value compared to someone who states they service their car better than any Garage (of course any seller will say that)
I will get my coat now
.......................
I am with you. I just dont get the 'no record' approach and would definitely pay more for a recorded history whether that be DIY or Caterham/independant.Mine is always serviced by Caterham never had an issue I have kept the car standard and whilst its now nearly 10 years old looks in better condition (IMHO) than many year to 18 month old cars
So a potential buyer has a clear owner history, a clear history of the service record and that must have a certain value compared to someone who states they service their car better than any Garage (of course any seller will say that)
I will get my coat now
.......................You can write what you want on a bit of paper, it doesn't mean it's been done.
Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
Edited by mickrick on Sunday 16th November 19:28
mickrick said:
You can write what you want on a bit of paper, it doesn't mean it's been done.
Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
I think we are agreeing as its all part of an overall picture of a car's history the more detail the better the background, like an MOT it doesn't really guarantee anything however if the car is in good condition and has a good maintenance history thats half the battle.Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
Edited by mickrick on Sunday 16th November 19:28
the only issue I would have is what makes you more qualified than the Garage to maintain the car yourself (and I am not being disrespectful)
Toaster said:
mickrick said:
You can write what you want on a bit of paper, it doesn't mean it's been done.
Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
I think we are agreeing as its all part of an overall picture of a car's history the more detail the better the background, like an MOT it doesn't really guarantee anything however if the car is in good condition and has a good maintenance history thats half the battle.Use your eyes, go on condition, talk to the owner and use your instinct.
If you want paper, walk away and find one that has paper.
I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
I've driven brand new cars out of the showroom, and they've never been back to the dealer.
Although I admit that I do make a note of work in the service manual.
Edited by mickrick on Sunday 16th November 19:28
the only issue I would have is what makes you more qualified than the Garage to maintain the car yourself (and I am not being disrespectful)
But I know in my own heart I'm good with my hands, and I have a good eye, and that's good enough for me.
I'm not saying there aren't good mechanics out there, but how do you know until it`s too late? I have grown cynical with the years I'm afraid!
I have seen both sides of this , I was in the retail trade for many years ,small independants and large multi franchise operations and generaly the larger they got the more the attitude was " the pen is mightier than the spanner " any numb nut can fill a service sheet in an do the obvious visible bits its usually the independants that do the job properly mainly because he wants you to come back in the future . Iwould in many ways and actually have bought cars from an enthusiast with no service history than a main dealer dealer serviced car .
Mine didn't have much of a history other than the two service stamps in the manual (by Caterham South).
Since I've had it I've got two folders full of history of every part I've bought and a spreadsheet on Google docs to note when everything was fitted. As someone else has said, I do this for all my cars for my own records (to track running costs), but also I think it'll be of intrest to a potential buyer when the time comes.
Since I've had it I've got two folders full of history of every part I've bought and a spreadsheet on Google docs to note when everything was fitted. As someone else has said, I do this for all my cars for my own records (to track running costs), but also I think it'll be of intrest to a potential buyer when the time comes.
I don't think anyone is saying service histories are a bad thing - just that the lack of them is not necessarily a sign of a bad car.
Having had links with the motor trade too, I know that a 5 minute oil change and wiped filter is considered enough to sign off a full service by many, even reputable, dealers. Unfortunately many owners are quite happy to accept poor standards as long as the 'paper work' is done. Believe paperwork at your peril.
Having had links with the motor trade too, I know that a 5 minute oil change and wiped filter is considered enough to sign off a full service by many, even reputable, dealers. Unfortunately many owners are quite happy to accept poor standards as long as the 'paper work' is done. Believe paperwork at your peril.
I'm with Mickrick. I built my R400K with great care, every nut tightened to the correct torque value, every detail finished to my satisfaction, waxoyled in every nook and crany before build. I ran it for ten years before selling it (and now wish I had kept it) and changed the oil and filter every other track day, so about five times a year. Anything that needed doing was attended to as it arose, and so never "serviced" in the dealer sense. I think the original water was still in the windscreen washers. The only invoice I kept was from DVA when he changed the cam belt, fitted verniers, and checked the top end for wear. I could see no point in writing down the dates when I changed the oil or senders or brake light switches etc. I did make a retrospective note of the jouneys made, countries visited, tracks driven on, observations on tyres, which I thought was a more interesting history of the car than simply a maintainence record, which given the type of car should go without saying.
The buyer showed no interest at all, except in the price.
The buyer showed no interest at all, except in the price.
Kept every invoice on my first - especially the one for the new engine - and the price I got was a long way south of what everyone told me it should be. High mileage possibly the reason - despite everybody saying it isn't that important. Bought the current one new 6 years ago , kept no receipts , just get service book stamped when it gets its annual seeing to. Done nearly 40k , no issues of any consequence, lose no sleep at all over resale value as cars like these are designed to stop you thinking about mundane stuff like that aren't they ?
As some have pointed out, when I service the car I am invested in it to make it as good as it can be. In a garage they are doing one of two things, looking to make money out of you or trying to do the bare minimum to make as much money as possible.
There are independNt exceptions of course but on the whole..... I would far sooner buy a car from a member on here with a good reputation than a car from Caterham with a service history. No disrespect to CATERHAM but I don't value a service record.
There are independNt exceptions of course but on the whole..... I would far sooner buy a car from a member on here with a good reputation than a car from Caterham with a service history. No disrespect to CATERHAM but I don't value a service record.
mickrick said:
Toaster said:
mickrick said:
...I've always serviced my own vehicles, and I know I will do it better than a garage.
...the only issue I would have is what makes you more qualified than the Garage to maintain the car yourself...http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I would very definitely buy ANY of Mick´s projects & I do believe I have first dibs on
Mavic82 said:
As some have pointed out, when I service the car I am invested in it to make it as good as it can be. In a garage they are doing one of two things, looking to make money out of you or trying to do the bare minimum to make as much money as possible.
There are independNt exceptions of course but on the whole..... I would far sooner buy a car from a member on here with a good reputation than a car from Caterham with a service history. No disrespect to CATERHAM but I don't value a service record.
I know you said you have a good pair of hands and eyes, just glad you chose car maintenance rather than a medical career or dentistry There are independNt exceptions of course but on the whole..... I would far sooner buy a car from a member on here with a good reputation than a car from Caterham with a service history. No disrespect to CATERHAM but I don't value a service record.
Farlig said:
You´d better believe it folks:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I would very definitely buy ANY of Mick´s projects & I do believe I have first dibs onSugino II Nuvite II
He certainly does a good job in polishing................can I get my coat now http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I would very definitely buy ANY of Mick´s projects & I do believe I have first dibs on
Toaster said:
I know you said you have a good pair of hands and eyes, just glad you chose car maintenance rather than a medical career or dentistry
Think you´re getting mavic & mickrick mixed up Toaster said:
He certainly does a good job in polishing................can I get my coat now
Edited by Farlig on Monday 17th November 23:00
Not realy getting people mixed up, so here goes what were talking about is, is someone competent to carry out a task on a car, bare in mind there are a lot of ego's involved here,
Competency is a standardised requirement for someone to carry out a job.....note the word standardised of course you need experience to do this and some previous statements have pointed out that not all experienced mechanics are competent to do the job.So where does that leave the amateur?
Well for me basics such as changing the oil a 10 year old could do this, changing a cam belt maybe a 15 year old, the important thing for me is attention to detail I have never been let down by Caterham they have always carried out what I have asked them to a high standard they are professional I class myself as an amateur despite having served as an apprentice and a former member of the IMI. Could I service the car yup, would it be to the same standard probably not and have I built a Seven yes I have and there were no additional costs post build (they didn't laugh but they didn't offer me a Job)
Ego's back in the box boys I would argue that an average mature is adequate at what they do and sometimes just outrageously bad
Competency is a standardised requirement for someone to carry out a job.....note the word standardised of course you need experience to do this and some previous statements have pointed out that not all experienced mechanics are competent to do the job.So where does that leave the amateur?
Well for me basics such as changing the oil a 10 year old could do this, changing a cam belt maybe a 15 year old, the important thing for me is attention to detail I have never been let down by Caterham they have always carried out what I have asked them to a high standard they are professional I class myself as an amateur despite having served as an apprentice and a former member of the IMI. Could I service the car yup, would it be to the same standard probably not and have I built a Seven yes I have and there were no additional costs post build (they didn't laugh but they didn't offer me a Job)
Ego's back in the box boys I would argue that an average mature is adequate at what they do and sometimes just outrageously bad
Fair point but I am not suggesting mechanics do a bad job just that the business has specific objectives that are different to mine. The mechanics are often constrained by the business or just disenchanted with their specific current situation or in the case of some garages not experienced in the vehicle they are working on.
There are fantastic mechanics around who do amazing work there of course others who don't.
There are fantastic mechanics around who do amazing work there of course others who don't.
Edited by Mavic82 on Tuesday 18th November 22:23
Mavic82 said:
Fair point but I am not suggesting mechanics do a bad job just that the business has specific objectives that are different to mine. The mechanics are often constrained by the business or just disenchanted with their specific current situation or in the case of some garages not experienced in the vehicle they are working on.
There are fantastic mechanics around who do amazing work there of course others who don't.
Understood, and thats why I left the motor trade years ago not so much the constraints but an oil change on a ferrari is no different to an oil change on a Ford focus There are fantastic mechanics around who do amazing work there of course others who don't.
Edited by Mavic82 on Tuesday 18th November 22:23
My view of the world is that most people go to work and want to do a good job, another view is that if someone takes a car to a garage where they don't have the experience of working on your type of car you will get what you pay for in other words the owner is trying to inappropriately trying to save money. why would you take your caterham for example to a ford garage just because it has a Duratec engine ?
Its a specialist car that needs specialist attention from someone who has access to knowledge, support and specialist tools as appropriate.
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