Classics & Sevens - Dealership

Classics & Sevens - Dealership

Author
Discussion

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Friday 19th December 2014
quotequote all
You can see my source from the post above - I never claimed fact, I stated opinion, something you always seem to belittle should it not match your own.

No I don't know who Mick is, he and you seem to be keeping that to yourselves, I don't doubt his credibility, how can I, I don't know who he is but if you or he know information that would put all our minds to rest then why withhold it, unless it gives you a sense of playground power?

Forums are for opinion and discussion, you'd do well to remember that.

BertBert

18,954 posts

210 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
So let's debate.

I've been a Caterham customer for the best part of 19 years. I've seen good and bad like you would not believe.

You have made statements connecting 3rd party reports and regurtitating then into rumour of a parlous financial state.

Mic comes along and says you are wrong. I know he knows stuff in reality.

So my argument is that it is better to believe a positive story from someone who is likely to know versus a poisonous story from someone regurgitating 3rd party events and concocting a bad outcome.

What do you think?

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
You can believe whatever you wish, at no point did I try to state a fact.

I merely mentioned a discussion piece from a post made on BC from a current customer and my own opinion based on that, I can't confirm or debunk what he's stated, it was a conversation piece.

Whilst the good Mr Attree clearly has a good and long working relationship with CC I doubt he is party to information relating to the financial state of the company, its inner workings or management decisions.






LawrenceR

202 posts

246 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
nigelpugh7 said:
Somebody told me that they don't even own the new show room in Crawley as they wanted the option to be able close it easily if they needed to change their plans.

Of course that could also easily be if they needed to move to s completely new location.
I don't believe they owned the old one in Caterham either, as it was sold from under them, therefore this is not a cause for concern for me, it looks to be part of their business model.

Edited by LawrenceR on Saturday 20th December 05:52

Paul Holywood

74 posts

117 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
I was told the CC owner had pie in the sky unrealistic goals, that caused unsettlement within the workforce.
I must confess I know nothing of this company but felt it right to share what I have learned on a open forum..

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Paul Holywood said:
I was told the CC owner had pie in the sky unrealistic goals, that caused unsettlement within the workforce.
I must confess I know nothing of this company but felt it right to share what I have learned on a open forum..
I guess there's truth in this.

It seems that from a few years ago when CC was wandering along as always, Fernendes came in an began working on his ambitious plans to build an F1 team and make road cars far beyond those that the brand is known for.

Here we are a few years later and the F1 dream is all but dead, the ambitious road car plans are shelved, and it's basically back to square one. No doubt it's cost a lot and probably not had any beneficial effect on CC but hopefully, it can settle back to what it does best, warts and all, and have a future that it's employees deserve.


rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Chrisp5782 said:
And you're better informed are you!?

9 week delays on kits isn't good. You'd have to be a complete fool (?) To not see what's happening at CC.
Yes he is. You might want to look up the name 'Mick Attree'.....



rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Paul Holywood said:
I was told the CC owner had pie in the sky unrealistic goals, that caused unsettlement within the workforce.
I must confess I know nothing of this company but felt it right to share what I have learned on a open forum..
The critical element here is whether CC still has the CTI operating costs, especially salaries, still lumped into it. If it doesn't, then why wouldn't it survive? Order book is strong, product is still awesome and development seems to have been well considered.

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
L
rubystone said:
Yes he is. You might want to look up the name 'Mick Attree'.....
Thanks for your delayed input but that's been covered already.

Read the previous posts, I'm not going to recap for johnny come latelys.

Always a good idea to read the complete thread before joining in - tends to stop you looking like a tit.

Edited by Chrisp5782 on Saturday 20th December 15:19

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Chrisp5782 said:
Thanks for your delayed input but that's been covered already.

Read the previous posts, I'm not going to recap for johnny come latelys.

Always a good idea to read the complete thread before joining in - tends to stop you looking like a tit.

Edited by Chrisp5782 on Saturday 20th December 15:19
You're the one looking like a tit, you are basing your entire premise on what one person posted on BC. I can assure you that CC is in good shape. I can't show you accounts, but since CTI is no longer dragging it down, it is in a good position financially. I am pretty down sure that if Mick really feels he can be bothered, he might some more on this tomorrow, assuming his hangover isn't too bad smile

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
DDg said:
Chrisp5782, weren't you arguing they were in rude health only a few weeks ago?...

Chrisp5782 said:
Moving to a new, larger, better equipped and more up market premises, hiring more staff and increasing manafucture output to meet increased domestic and foreign demand hardly seem like the actions of a company in financial strife...
hehe

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
You're the one looking like a tit, you are basing your entire premise on what one person posted on BC. I can assure you that CC is in good shape. I can't show you accounts, but since CTI is no longer dragging it down, it is in a good position financially. I am pretty down sure that if Mick really feels he can be bothered, he might some more on this tomorrow, assuming his hangover isn't too bad smile
I made a point, that was all, based on another's experience.

You, Mick and everyone else on here doesn't know what's going on. Mick may be able to make informed assessment based on the work he's getting from CC but, as I said before, he's not part of the management team at CC is he?

Caterham as a whole is in a spot of bother, anyone can see that. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them go under or change ownership to the detriment of staff or customers but it is something worth discussing.

I've cast no aspersions at Mick but nor do I worship at the alter of Attree as you all do, that being said I can see he does some pretty amazing stuff.

I'm not, as you insinuate, trying to create drama or generate rumour for CC merely pointing out comments made on another forum.


Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
DDg said:
Chrisp5782, weren't you arguing they were in rude health only a few weeks ago?...

Chrisp5782 said:
Moving to a new, larger, better equipped and more up market premises, hiring more staff and increasing manafucture output to meet increased domestic and foreign demand hardly seem like the actions of a company in financial strife...
hehe
Indeed I was, before things went pear shaped and talk of unexpected and unexplained delays were mentioned.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Chrisp5782 said:
I made a point, that was all, based on another's experience.

You, Mick and everyone else on here doesn't know what's going on. Mick may be able to make informed assessment based on the work he's getting from CC but, as I said before, he's not part of the management team at CC is he?

Caterham as a whole is in a spot of bother, anyone can see that. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them go under or change ownership to the detriment of staff or customers but it is something worth discussing.

I've cast no aspersions at Mick but nor do I worship at the alter of Attree as you all do, that being said I can see he does some pretty amazing stuff.

I'm not, as you insinuate, trying to create drama or generate rumour for CC merely pointing out comments made on another forum.
So I'm curious...what made you change your tune then? Clearly you must be in a better position than people on here (some of whom are Caterham employees btw) to make that judgement then. I'd mistakenly assumed you'd based your musings simply on the strength of the opinion of someone posting on Blatchat.

I do have another theory...that your military position is as a secret agent with access to sophisticated tools capable of hacking into CC's Sage accounting system to uncover the bloody truth of their accounts.

Or maybe, as a relative newcomer to the world of Caterham, you simply won't believe that people better informed than you might, just might, be closer to knowing the truth as you do....

You shouldn't worship at the altar of Blatchat either... wink

Smollet

10,465 posts

189 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
DDg said:
tbh, the sooner they extricate themselves from this Fernandes shambles, they can return to their cottage industry roots, hopefully making a new owner a sensible level of profit without wanting to take over the world.
I think that probably sums up the wishes of all past,present and future Caterham owners.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Just read the thread on BC (hooray, my login now works...and it's less a sea of white once you are logged in as a member!!!!)

I can understand the concerns...those of us either directly affected by, or aware of, Arrowstar would expect the worse...and I really hope Graham treats this seriously enough to get involved. I know that had this happened under Ansar, not only would he have posted on the thread within seconds, but it would already have been resolved.

But ultimately, no one else has posted on that thread or here to suggest this had happened to them and ultimately the rest of the thread comprises conjecture, aside from our esteemed chairman's rebalancing of it around his hassle free sale of his CSR...

So the return to 7 ownership didn't last long then, eh Martin? biglaugh

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Chrisp5782 said:
I made a point, that was all, based on another's experience.

You, Mick and everyone else on here doesn't know what's going on. Mick may be able to make informed assessment based on the work he's getting from CC but, as I said before, he's not part of the management team at CC is he?

Caterham as a whole is in a spot of bother, anyone can see that. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them go under or change ownership to the detriment of staff or customers but it is something worth discussing.

I've cast no aspersions at Mick but nor do I worship at the alter of Attree as you all do, that being said I can see he does some pretty amazing stuff.

I'm not, as you insinuate, trying to create drama or generate rumour for CC merely pointing out comments made on another forum.
So I'm curious...what made you change your tune then? Clearly you must be in a better position than people on here (some of whom are Caterham employees btw) to make that judgement then. I'd mistakenly assumed you'd based your musings simply on the strength of the opinion of someone posting on Blatchat.

I do have another theory...that your military position is as a secret agent with access to sophisticated tools capable of hacking into CC's Sage accounting system to uncover the bloody truth of their accounts.

Or maybe, as a relative newcomer to the world of Caterham, you simply won't believe that people better informed than you might, just might, be closer to knowing the truth as you do....

You shouldn't worship at the altar of Blatchat either... wink
At what point did I say I knew better? I've already explained, if you bothered to read, why my opinion has changed, or did you not notice the sale or closure of Caterham divisions in the last couple of weeks?

I'm not the oracle nor have I claimed to be, I just read the paper and watch the news.
Your attempts at sarcasm and wit fall short, you really must try harder in future.

I hope you're correct and CC is in good health, the point I made, from anothers experience, is there are things that may indicate otherwise.

Oh, I'm not a newcomer to Caterham either, I guess you didn't bother to read all my profile when you were having a snoop the same way you didn't read the complete thread before jumping in with your size tens.



Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Just read the thread on BC (hooray, my login now works...and it's less a sea of white once you are logged in as a member!!!!)

I can understand the concerns...those of us either directly affected by, or aware of, Arrowstar would expect the worse...and I really hope Graham treats this seriously enough to get involved. I know that had this happened under Ansar, not only would he have posted on the thread within seconds, but it would already have been resolved.

But ultimately, no one else has posted on that thread or here to suggest this had happened to them and ultimately the rest of the thread comprises conjecture, aside from our esteemed chairman's rebalancing of it around his hassle free sale of his CSR...

So the return to 7 ownership didn't last long then, eh Martin? biglaugh
Did you read the other thread about delays?

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Chrisp5782 said:
Did you read the other thread about delays?
CC are famous for their delays...even under the Nairns (Graham bought the company from a chap named Colin Chapman...but, then you, as a man with a long history of owning Caterhams is of course aware of that...)

They always used to forget to chuck a few things into the kit too. Are they still doing that?

The redundancies were at the overpaid, underdelivering business named CTI...this was always an exercise in vanity and I was delighted when it was put out of its misery. Of course I'm sad that some good people lost their jobs, but amongst that staff were people being paid an awful lot of money to do nothing, or very little.

So...were the delays due to cashflow issues caused by the drain of the operating expenses of CTI or is CC on its uppers? Surely that's the debate we should be having?

Have you sourced a new 7? I haven't bothered to snoop that far in Blatchat yet and I understand the search facility may still need tweaking before it's ready to undertake the task of looking for all your postings.

Eta, I take size 9, but do spec my pumacats in a 10 as they sometimes come up a bit small, so spot on with your observation there...or is that your drone hovering outside my house right now?...

Chrisp5782

630 posts

137 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Chrisp5782 said:
Did you read the other thread about delays?
CC are famous for their delays...even under the Nairns (Graham bought the company from a chap named Colin Chapman...but, then you, as a man with a long history of owning Caterhams is of course aware of that...)

They always used to forget to chuck a few things into the kit too. Are they still doing that?

The redundancies were at the overpaid, underdelivering business named CTI...this was always an exercise in vanity and I was delighted when it was put out of its misery. Of course I'm sad that some good people lost their jobs, but amongst that staff were people being paid an awful lot of money to do nothing, or very little.

So...were the delays due to cashflow issues caused by the drain of the operating expenses of CTI or is CC on its uppers? Surely that's the debate we should be having?

Have you sourced a new 7? I haven't bothered to snoop that far in Blatchat yet and I understand the search facility may still need tweaking before it's ready to undertake the task of looking for all your postings.
That's exactly the point I was making, I congratulate you on finally getting there, although it did take a while huh?

Once again your childish attempts at sarcasm miss the mark but I'll humour you all the same, yes I am indeed aware of the history of the car, is there a test I should know about?

As for my posts on BC there aren't that many, I can only aspire to the 8000 odd posts you've made on here, now it is I who must try harder clearly!