Classics & Sevens - Dealership

[james7]

He was making statements which he was putting forward as fact.
Others were saying it must be true because mic said it.
He was asked what qualified him to make these statements.
We are still waiting for the answer....................

[rubystone]

james7 said:

Which not only begs the question, that with regards to the finances of caterham cars, who are you but also who on earth do you think you are?

And equally to the fanboys and girls ready to felate you at a moments notice do they know something about your intimate knowledge of the finances of caterham cars which is not immediately obvious to others?

James, in defence of Mick, nowhere does he claim to know the state of Caterham Car's finances. All he claims is that he is aware that production is healthy, just as Stuart Faulds (who is also close to Caterham Cars) also said.

As Mick says, two of his family work at CC, he did too, some years ago. And last night CC had their Christmas party and I am sure this topic was discussed.

And tbh I was just having some fun last night with Christian. If it was taken the wrong way, I apologise

[PhilipRJ]

mickrick said:

The writing was on the wall when AA took over. I won't say I told you so... but I did.

I'm surprised this didn't get more reaction.

I hope that Caterham Cars sales volumes are up and the fundamentals of the company can keep it safe as the tangled Caterham Group unravels.

At some point if TF decides to let it go ... I can't think of a better answer than AA at the helm of a company with Caterham Cars and Xenos on offer. They are different enough to have broad appeal ... but similar enough to benefit from economies of scale.

[james7]

rubystone said:

James, in defence of Mick, nowhere does he claim to know the state of Caterham Car's finances. All he claims is that he is aware that production is healthy, just as Stuart Faulds (who is also close to Caterham Cars) also said.

As Mick says, two of his family work at CC, he did too, some years ago. And last night CC had their Christmas party and I am sure this topic was discussed.

Perhaps if he had said that and phrased it in a polite way it may have been better.
By the way all of the above about mic etc I already know. It was the assumption that everyone should know who he is and if they dont he and his fanboys are rude and gang up on people that I find bizarre and frankly is the equivalent of bullying

The reason this interests me, apart from my love of 7s, is not wanting to see another Arrowstar situation develop. Possibly some owners could have been saved a lot of money if the Lotus 7 club were not as self important as they are were and actually done the morally right thing. If the situation were repeated I would assume they would do the same thing

Something which stuck in my mind from a little while ago...........
I was talking to a guy with a westfield, having a look round it etc. Was a very nice car. I mentioned that I owned a Caterham and he was very surprised that I was talking to him as his impression of a lot of Caterham owners was that they were "self important tts who feel they are above everyone else".
If an outsider were to read these pages or Blatchat at times he would appear to be correct.

[rubystone]

I wasn't aware the club had any case to answer re Arrowstar, beyond the fact Jack and Phillipa advertised in Low Flying? Did the club fail to act correctly? Aves, where are you?...

[james7]

rubystone said:

I wasn't aware the club had any case to answer re Arrowstar, beyond the fact Jack and Phillipa advertised in Low Flying? Did the club fail to act correctly? Aves, where are you?...

I believe they owed the club, therefore its members, a large amount of money. Any discussion was promptly deleted. It didn't happen overnight and imo the club could have done much much more to keep its members informed of how, why, where it all went wrong.
It seems that the club's priority was the club and not its members.
Apparently a club member lost a car in it all but the posts were deleted so I don't know how it turned out or even if it was true or not.

[BertBert]

My recollection is different regarding the arrow* debacle.

There was a huge amount of public debate on Blatchat. About both topics when the company failed.

However commercial legal disputes cannot be discussed in public. Arrow* got angsty and the debate has to be removed.

It wasn't a bad club action, but trying to chart a course through a very difficult dispute with potentially very bad consequences for the club.

I also feel it to be highly unlikely that there is a real parallel between arrow* and how Caterham cars are currently. This is how Aves reported it on pH in 2003.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=101...

Anyone really think there is a parallel? I certainly don't.
Bert

[IBDAET]

I don't thionk Arrow* ever tried to sell something they acquired for £3.5m for £80m, which is I understand where TF is starting his negotiations for CCL. Arrow* borrowed all they could from anyone, then ran away.

Caterham is however a very badly run business. How they manage to produce any cars right now is a mystery, when they have next to no parts inventory for anything useful. "Production" has to be limited by this fact. If you cannot build them, you cannot ship them.

If I was a supplier, I'd be offering them no line of credit, as I duly expect them to eventually get sold for £1 saddled with millions in debt. Even then who want to buy a car manufacturer with a product of no certain future due to pending EU legisalation? Caterham above all others need Farage to win in May and pull the UK from the EU, if they are to find a buyer.

Edited by IBDAET on Sunday 21st December 19:36

[anonymous-user]

IBDAET said:

I don't thionk Arrow* ever tried to sell something they acquired for £3.5m for £80m, which is I understand where TF is starting his negotiations for CCL. Arrow* borrowed all they could from anyone, then ran away.

Caterham is however a very badly run business. How they manage to produce any cars right now is a mystery, when they have next to no parts inventory for anything useful. "Production" has to be limited by this fact. If you cannot build them, you cannot ship them.

If I was a supplier, I'd be offering them no line of credit, as I duly expect them to eventually get sold for £1 saddled with millions in debt. Even then who want to buy a car manufacturer with a product of no certain future due to pending EU legisalation? Caterham above all others need Farage to win in May and pull the UK from the EU, if they are to find a buyer.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 21st December 19:36

What's the pending EU legislation? I had a search and found some stuff that was threatening this type of vehicle about 10 years ago but can't find anything recent.

[anonymous-user]

REALIST123 said:

IBDAET said:

I don't thionk Arrow* ever tried to sell something they acquired for £3.5m for £80m, which is I understand where TF is starting his negotiations for CCL. Arrow* borrowed all they could from anyone, then ran away.

Caterham is however a very badly run business. How they manage to produce any cars right now is a mystery, when they have next to no parts inventory for anything useful. "Production" has to be limited by this fact. If you cannot build them, you cannot ship them.

If I was a supplier, I'd be offering them no line of credit, as I duly expect them to eventually get sold for £1 saddled with millions in debt. Even then who want to buy a car manufacturer with a product of no certain future due to pending EU legisalation? Caterham above all others need Farage to win in May and pull the UK from the EU, if they are to find a buyer.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 21st December 19:36

What's the pending EU legislation? I had a search and found some stuff that was threatening this type of vehicle about 10 years ago but can't find anything recent.

Anyone?

[Caterhamfan]

From Graham MacDonald's Christmas message on the Caterham Cars website "Pleasingly, Caterham Cars continued to perform strongly throughout 2014, with an unprecedented order book already secured for 2015. The success has resulted with increased production levels of fifteen cars per week, the highest I’ve known in my eight years within the business. This accomplishment has been a direct result of an increase in demand from our new overseas markets of; Malaysia, Taiwan and Columbia, along with continued growth in existing territories from the entry Seven 160/165. Witnessing such strong global sales it is clear to appreciate that the Caterham Seven is now truly becoming a British icon to be enjoyed by all internationally."

Or is it a case of, as someone once said, "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"

[coppice]

Makes me wonder - is it going to make lots of people happy if Caterham were to go under? Thereby enabling lots of self righteous head shaking 'I told you so's' from some blokes on the internet. And if they are actually doing well- is that going to disappoint some? Season of goodwill my arse...

[IBDAET]

Well, this tragic incident isn't going to help Mr Fernandes cashflow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30614627

[anonymous-user]

IBDAET said:

Well, this tragic incident isn't going to help Mr Fernandes cashflow: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30614627

Dear me. How low can one go?

[Chrisp5782]

coppice said:

Makes me wonder - is it going to make lots of people happy if Caterham were to go under? Thereby enabling lots of self righteous head shaking 'I told you so's' from some blokes on the internet. And if they are actually doing well- is that going to disappoint some? Season of goodwill my arse...

I doubt anyone wants them to go under, I certainly don't, what's being put forward for discussion is concern and worry.

[Chrisp5782]

coppice said:

Makes me wonder - is it going to make lots of people happy if Caterham were to go under? Thereby enabling lots of self righteous head shaking 'I told you so's' from some blokes on the internet. And if they are actually doing well- is that going to disappoint some? Season of goodwill my arse...

I doubt anyone wants them to go under, I certainly don't, what's being put forward for discussion is concern and worry.

[kenny.R400]

I think the firm that this thread is named after would do as good a job as anyone of taking the car wing over if things go sour. A car dealer taking over the rights to the 7 has been done before!!

Only problem would be that Andy would probably know exactly what the company was worth as a viable business proposition and that may disagree wildly with what I think the ask might be.

[coppice]

Chrisp5782 said:

coppice said:

Makes me wonder - is it going to make lots of people happy if Caterham were to go under? Thereby enabling lots of self righteous head shaking 'I told you so's' from some blokes on the internet. And if they are actually doing well- is that going to disappoint some? Season of goodwill my arse...

I doubt anyone wants them to go under, I certainly don't, what's being put forward for discussion is concern and worry.

I'm sure Caterham follow their every word of selfless concern...

[Smollet]

kenny.R400 said:

I think the firm that this thread is named after would do as good a job as anyone of taking the car wing over if things go sour. A car dealer taking over the rights to the 7 has been done before!!

Only problem would be that Andy would probably know exactly what the company was worth as a viable business proposition and that may disagree wildly with what I think the ask might be.

I may be wrong but doesn't Fernandes want something like £80m for CC. He paid a fraction of that and I'm pretty sure they haven't expanded by that much to warrant his current asking price.

[kenny.R400]

I wouldn't have a clue now mate how it's valued. What other assets does CC have apart from its order book and staff/goodwill? As I say I don't know.

There must be a lot more to it to command £80m though I'd have thought.