Wow, Lotus 7 Club's quiet ... how can we help it recover

[framerateuk]

Helluvaname said:

And unfortunately, when the Club asked for anyone with expertise to volunteer to help with development, no one offered to (or offered their kids ) help, despite several people saying since that they could have done a much better job for 5 pence, etc.

Just to say, I am a developer, a club member, but I don't read Blatchat very often and didn't see anything regarding it.

However, I'm aware of how long these things take to build, it's unlikely you'd get anyone to volunteer to build such a large project, and going to an agency (as you did) was probably the only option.

That said, wouldn't have "volunteered" for such as a thing. These sorts of sites can't be knocked together in a weekend. They require thought, planning and time to build if they are to be done to a high quality (and within a reasonable timescale). Which probably explains why you didn't get any offers.

[rubystone]

framerateuk said:

Just to say, I am a developer, a club member, but I don't read Blatchat very often and didn't see anything regarding it.

However, I'm aware of how long these things take to build, it's unlikely you'd get anyone to volunteer to build such a large project, and going to an agency (as you did) was probably the only option.

That said, wouldn't have "volunteered" for such as a thing. These sorts of sites can't be knocked together in a weekend. They require thought, planning and time to build if they are to be done to a high quality (and within a reasonable timescale). Which probably explains why you didn't get any offers.

And on the subject of the use of 'spare time' the old forum relied on Barry Sweeney to support it. And he has a day job too.

Fwiw the new forum isnt that onerous to use...way better than Ferrarichst for instance.

[framerateuk]

Good for him. That's his choice, but don't expect every developer to feel the same way.

[Orange Blackbird]

The difference is that the club assists new owners by providing a ready made network of people and assists Area Reps in contacting people in their area by providing email lists for them to keep in contact with local owners. It can be done without a club that I grant you but why go to unnecessary bother when a club will help? You were obviously a member once and built up a network of friends and feel you do not need it now, fine, so why not just move on?

Not sure what all the fuss is about the forum, it works ok, you can post up questions, arrange meets, blats etc. It did have a particularly bad transition period but Shaun has done a great deal of work to improve it. If you have left the club then you may not have seen those changes and does your opinion matter if you are not a member, probably not.

Those people that slag off certain contributors on the club forum ought to consider if others feel the same about their posts. Some club members have very inflated opinions of themselves yet assume that they are well liked because they have a good rapport with a small clique. If you don't like a TV channel you switch over, so if you don't want to read a post topic then move on. I agree that an ignore button would be nice though:-)

[coppice]

Crossflow Kid said:

So what's the difference between "club people" who organise things, and a group of friends/Facebook friends who do the same?
Perhaps it's time to admit the average Seven owner no longer needs a club (any club) to introduce him or her to others?
I guess it doesn't help that the whole "Parking in a neat semi-circle for the day" thing just doesn't flick any switches for me.

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Sunday 22 March 12:43

I too can think of better ways to spend a day but lots of people enjoy that sort of thing and good luck to them. Some sprint, some race, some go on solo or group runs, some chat or rant on (and about )the website , some never go near it, others like reading the Club magazine, others don't- the L7 Club , like many similar ones, is a broad church . And , amazingly , not everything it does is perfect and sometimes the volunteers who help run it find they have more pressing things to do than respond to every little bicker and gripe.

If people who own a Seven want to join the L7 Club then so far as I am concerned they are very welcome - I certainly try to do my bit to ensure that the constant sniping on PH paints an unbalanced picture of what I have found to be a great community of people . Not surprisingly I have more in common with some than with others but that's only to be expected.

Ownership of a Seven doesn't mean that membership of the Club is mandatory - of course people link up via FB and the rest and who am I to say they shouldn't ? I do the same myself .

What I am beginning to believe is that for some of the more vocal critics any excuse will do to launch another gripe; the website was a convenient target and membership fees are another very old favourite. But I think all that is just a handy hook upon which to hang another gripe- I suspect if membership were free , the website was the car club world's best and membership benefits included free admission to the Grand Prix followed by a night out with Kate Moss the level of sniping wouldn't diminish a bit .

If some want to join the Club they are welcome ; but if others aren't members any more or have never been one at all I suggest they try to find a better use of their time than obsessively moaning and whingeing ad nauseam about a club they don't even belong to . It's tiresome , tedious and pointless.

[anonymous-user]

Wow. Just......wow.

[BertBert]

framerateuk said:

However, I'm aware of how long these things take to build, it's unlikely you'd get anyone to volunteer to build such a large project, and going to an agency (as you did) was probably the only option.

Helluvaname said:

Just for the record Bert, "they" didn't "get someone to write software in the first place" , the forum software IS opensource

I'm just intruiged which it is? If it's not been "written" what was the large project done by an agency?

And I get the errors when not logged in as I'm not a member.

Bert

[framerateuk]

BertBert said:

I'm just intruiged which it is? If it's not been "written" what was the large project done by an agency?

And I get the errors when not logged in as I'm not a member.

Bert

Yes, the software is fully open source, that doesn't mean it's ready to go out of the box. The core software is just a starting point. You need someone to turn it into a functioning site.

Who do you think styled it? Set it up? Configured all the modules? These are the tasks that take time, and that's what an agency will charge for. (You can get paid for CMS and Forum software too, but not in the case of the L7C site).

There's a link at the bottom of every page to: http://www.newdigitalpartnership.co.uk They would have been the people who built it. This is all pretty standard stuff that web agencies do.

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 11:24

[framerateuk]

DDg said:

That link doesn't work. Why I pay £45 to be treated with contempt by your deliberate attempt at obfuscation etc etc...

There, I've said it so the usual crazies don't have to... :-)

PH picked the dot at the end as part of the URL, remove it and try again.

My deliberate attempt? I'm only a club member in that I pay the £45 a year like everyone else.

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 11:34

[BertBert]

framerateuk said:

Yes, the software is fully open source, that doesn't mean it's ready to go out of the box. The core software is just a starting point. You need someone to turn it into a functioning site.

Who do you think styled it? Set it up? Configured all the modules? These are the tasks that take time, and that's what an agency will charge for. (You can get paid for CMS and Forum software too, but not in the case of the L7C site).

There's a link at the bottom of every page to: http://www.newdigitalpartnership.co.uk They would have been the people who built it. This is all pretty standard stuff that web agencies do.

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 11:24

So the project was the while website? I mistakenly thought the 40k sum was the forum part. I may also be mistaken about the 40k sum as well!

But as an ex club member I don't have any ex club angst about the club, MT etc.

Maybe a little but of angst when the forum doesn't seem to work and when Arnie, Bob and Mick (not Mic) talk bks.

But they probably feel the same about me

Bert

[framerateuk]

BertBert said:

So the project was the while website? I mistakenly thought the 40k sum was the forum part. I may also be mistaken about the 40k sum as well!

But as an ex club member I don't have any ex club angst about the club, MT etc.

Maybe a little but of angst when the forum doesn't seem to work and when Arnie, Bob and Mick (not Mic) talk bks.

But they probably feel the same about me

Bert

I would guess so. I'm not in the know at all, just a developer who has experience of how these things work. The sum (which is quite believable for an agency) would probably have included stuff like the data import from the old forum too. It's not a small task by any means.

Just to add, as a forum, the old one was fine, but it (and the website) were hardly a good front for what is a quite large club. They looked outdated, and there's a difference between someone maintaining a site as a hobby, to having a bespoke one built to your requirements. I don't really post much on Blatchat, but it certainly looks the part now, and the forum is definitely better than it was when it launched.

[AVES]

Orange Blackbird said:

Those people that slag off certain contributors on the club forum ought to consider if others feel the same about their posts. Some club members have very inflated opinions of themselves yet assume that they are well liked because they have a good rapport with a small clique. If you don't like a TV channel you switch over, so if you don't want to read a post topic then move on. I agree that an ignore button would be nice though:-)

Agreed but the difficulty is quantum. There are always going to be people whose posts get on your tits and you can ignore them to a degree. (I may well be one of them) When it gets to the stage of them populating almost every thread with their patronising drivel then it becomes a problem.

[Smollet]

framerateuk said:

I don't really post much on Blatchat, but it certainly looks the part now, and the forum is definitely better than it was when it launched.

I think if you did then you'd be far more aware of its shortcomings over the old BC. Yes it has improved from its disastrous introduction but it's still light years behind most other forums that exist. What I've done here in replying to you including your post is not possible on the new BC.

[framerateuk]

Smollet said:

I think if you did then you'd be far more aware of its shortcomings over the old BC. Yes it has improved from its disastrous introduction but it's still light years behind most other forums that exist. What I've done here in replying to you including your post is not possible on the new BC.

I'd agree yes. The forum looks to be just a commenting module that's been modified to behave more like a forum. I've said before (both on here and Blatchat) that the forum is really the core feature of the site, and should have been given priority over anything else. So really the choice of forum software should have been first (so vBulletin, PHPBB ect) and then a CMS bolted on rather than a CMS with a bolt on forum module.

For an outsider looking in though, the new site does look much nicer, it's far more inviting than the old Blatchat, which was showing it's age badly, even if it did offer more functionality.

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 16:10

[Smollet]

framerateuk said:

I'd agree yes. The forum looks to be just a commenting module that's been modified to behave more like a forum. I've said before (both on here and Blatchat) that the forum is really the core feature of the site, and should have been given priority over anything else. So really the choice of forum software should have been first (so vBulletin, PHPBB ect) and then a CMS bolted on rather than a CMS with a bolt on forum module.

For an outsider looking in though, the new site does look much nicer, it's far more inviting than the old Blatchat, which was showing it's age badly, even if it did offer more functionality.

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 16:10

I think the new forum will eventually put off those who are currently members(it's already seeing a slow but steady trickle on those not renewing as a result of the new forum) and prefer to engage in conversation as we are now. New members will know nothing of the old BC and hence will be less deterred initially but I still maintain the MT have made a massive error that will cost the club in the long run in terms of membership and therefore revenue.

[framerateuk]

Smollet said:

I think the new forum will eventually put off those who are currently members(it's already seeing a slow but steady trickle on those not renewing as a result of the new forum) and prefer to engage in conversation as we are now. New members will know nothing of the old BC and hence will be less deterred initially but I still maintain the MT have made a massive error that will cost the club in the long run in terms of membership and therefore revenue.

I thought the old forum was awful too. Having been a member of a few other car clubs and lots of other online forums, which have modern forum software, the old Blatchat felt very out of date. The new one is very limited too though, and like I said, I think the forum should have been the prime concern - they should have picked the right forum software first. The current one feels like an afterthought.

It's hard to point fingers. It could be the MT thought they wee buying a modern forum and the agency didn't deliver. Or the MT didn't make it clear how integral the forum was, so the agency spent the time on other areas. The "requirements gathering" phase of a project is as important as development, and if it's not done correctly then it affects everything.

[kenny.R400]

Out of interest why did you think the old forum was awful? I reckoned it did everything you needed a forum to do, with decent speed too.

The usual retort to this is "You're a luddite and living in the past", which always makes me laugh coming from people who drive 1950's stlye cars

Out of interest the 40k spend on the new one mentioned above is a joke, right?

There do seem to be more people saying the new forum is poor to any saying it's good.

Have members ever been offered a chance to say if they rate it? to maybe get a snapshot of the true picture of peoples thoughts. That could then maybe be used as ammunition for the providers to get things sorted if the feedback is grim.

[Stuart0620]

I have been an L7C member for 10 years and was an AR for several years and a regular user and poster on the Blatchat forum and used it everyday.

However having initially tried logging onto the new L7C website I couldn't log on and gave up and I am afraid I now only search it infrequently and I now use Facebook and Pistonheads instead (read more).

I never really used the site other than Blatchat and the only other benefit to me as a club member is that the monthly Low Flying magazine is of interest albeit that seems to have gone down hill. Too many adverts and not enough relevant content - for example this month an article about Morgans - if I want to read about Morgans I will join the Morgan Owners Club !

I am not wanting to appear critical as the L7C is great and the MT have worked hard to try and bring the website into the 21st century but somehow it is just not quite right

[Smollet]

Oddly enough I think the magazine has improved a lot over the past couple of years.

[framerateuk]

kenny.R400 said:

Out of interest why did you think the old forum was awful? I reckoned it did everything you needed a forum to do, with decent speed too.

The usual retort to this is "You're a luddite and living in the past", which always makes me laugh coming from people who drive 1950's stlye cars

It looked like a forum that was 15 years old to be honest. It didn't support mobile devices (but then, neither does the new site - a mistake I feel!).

Other than that, the login system was a bit strange. I'm afraid I can't remember other details since it's been a while! But when I first visited it, it did strike me as being ancient, and considering I use lots of different forums every day, I did find it a bit odd to use. The way it only shows threads 3 days old by default was a bit strange!

It was simple though and easy to use. And the basic features it did have did actually work .

EDIT: Also, keen in mind I build software and websites for a living, so I'm naturally going to be more picky about these things

Edited by framerateuk on Monday 23 March 18:09