csr260 or 620s?

Author
Discussion

totalbunt

Original Poster:

15 posts

95 months

Monday 18th April 2016
quotequote all
Hi all
Am after some advice/views/pros and cons of a csr260 vs 620s or maybe 420, Think useage will be mainly road with a few track days. Am going round in circles changing daily ,i really enjoy not just the speed (which im not knocking) but the whole experience including the noise, loved the noise of the csr which the 620 didnt seem to be the equal of or is that just my hearing going!! any comments gladly received
many thanks Bill


k20erham

372 posts

125 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
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Really only one place to go and try and listen ETC BaT at Donnington I think. Be mindful that the very noise you desire is the way to getting black flagged at most circuits these days, also watch out for induction noise too which can push you over if your exhaust is marginal. The sound is very very addictive, the 7 experience is very very addictive.

curley

432 posts

218 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
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I have a 620R , a friend had a 260 CSR , he tried a 620R and is changing ....to a 620S ( SV )
His wife has a 620R


Read into that what you will

Edited by curley on Tuesday 19th April 20:23

curley

432 posts

218 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
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I agree with the post above , go and try them both ( although a CSR might be more difficult to locate ...)

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
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Most 620 out there are strangled by the rear exit double-silencer setup (needed for track day noise limits). You can make it sound spectacular by returning to the single silencer side-exit....but won't be able to get it near a track. I'm currently in the process of having my double-silencer altered so I basically drop of the second silencer and convert to a side exit, but go back when the noise limits demand.

totalbunt

Original Poster:

15 posts

95 months

Wednesday 20th April 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for your replies
performance wise is there a real world large difference between the two? and does anyone know of any reliability issues with the supercharged durateq or likely refresh intervals / how many miles is the engine likely to be good for?
have seen csr"s for sale with 25000 + miles so the csr engine seems to be pretty reliable ?

DCL

1,215 posts

178 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
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I think if you're going to buy this sort of car you need to be prepared to accept that you're not going to get 'tin top' mileages out of it. But provided it is well maintained (regular oil changes in particular) it will do tens of thousands - effectively the life of the car.

Generic issues apart, the Duratec is not bad and has no particular weak points that require fixed overhaul periods. Having said that, I'd personally be thinking of basic refresh around 5,000-10,000 miles - really depends how you use it.

damdy-cash

65 posts

185 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
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DCL said:
Having said that, I'd personally be thinking of basic refresh around 5,000-10,000 miles - really depends how you use it.
what do you think a basic refresh would be in detail?

DCL

1,215 posts

178 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
quotequote all
damdy-cash said:
what do you think a basic refresh would be in detail?
If the engine was still running normally then:

Strip and clean
Check for wear and consider replacing any worn or 'out of spec' items
New big end shells (retain mains if possible)
Hone (de-glaze) bores
Lap valve seats
Check valve clearances
Replace crank seals, gaskets etc.
Replace timing chain, guides, and sprockets on higher mileage engines
Replace bolts/studs if standard to ARP (if budget allows)


If it was down on power, or oil pressure, then also:

Look more carefully at everything
Any machining work required.
New rings
New oil pump
New tensioner (modified)


bcr5784

7,102 posts

144 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
quotequote all
totalbunt said:
Thanks for your replies
performance wise is there a real world large difference between the two? and does anyone know of any reliability issues with the supercharged durateq or likely refresh intervals / how many miles is the engine likely to be good for?
have seen csr"s for sale with 25000 + miles so the csr engine seems to be pretty reliable ?
It depends what you mean by real world. In 0-60mph times although claimed figures vary from 3.8 seconds for the 420 down to less than 3 seconds - on the road grip isn't so great and I suspect the figures would be closer, being limited by traction - closer still unless you are prepared to be as brutal as a road tester. Above 60 real world differences may be greater. The figures I've seen suggest a 420 can get to a 100mph in 9secs, a csr 260 in 8 and a 620 in less than 7. In all cases they are likely to be affected by traction and whether you run a windscreen or not.

Above 100mph bigger differences will show.

How significant you will find the differences really depends on what you are used to. Compared with sports motorcycles even the 620 isn't that quick, but compared with cars even the 420 is well into Porsche territory, and license losing country. Personally (even though I've owned quick bikes)and haven't driven a CSR or 620 - I think the 420 is plenty quick enough on the road and fine on track. But others make different choices and I wouldn't gainsay them.

totalbunt

Original Poster:

15 posts

95 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
quotequote all
thanks
the refresh you mentioned, does that apply to the csr engine as well ? and if so would this be needed every 5-10k ?

bennno

11,509 posts

268 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
quotequote all
DCL said:
damdy-cash said:
what do you think a basic refresh would be in detail?
If the engine was still running normally then:

Strip and clean
Check for wear and consider replacing any worn or 'out of spec' items
New big end shells (retain mains if possible)
Hone (de-glaze) bores
Lap valve seats
Check valve clearances
Replace crank seals, gaskets etc.
Replace timing chain, guides, and sprockets on higher mileage engines
Replace bolts/studs if standard to ARP (if budget allows)


If it was down on power, or oil pressure, then also:

Look more carefully at everything
Any machining work required.
New rings
New oil pump
New tensioner (modified)

rolleyes What a basic refresh every 5k miles, so more frequently than the specified oil change intervals?

Black_S3

2,667 posts

187 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
DCL said:
I think if you're going to buy this sort of car you need to be prepared to accept that you're not going to get 'tin top' mileages out of it. But provided it is well maintained (regular oil changes in particular) it will do tens of thousands - effectively the life of the car.
I don't agree with your thinking there. I'd expect a garaged 7 to well outlast a tin top that was born on the same day.

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
I own a 620R and if it was choice between the 620S SV and a CSR I'm not sure which way I'd jump! I'll caveat this with the fact I've not driven a CSR but I have driven the 620S. On the assumption that the CSR feels a bit less racy and more comfy, I'd be inclined to go for the CSR. The 620S seems a little bit schizophrenic to me: it's got the mental BHP for track but isn't really a track car. Whereas the CSR is designed as a road car.

Either will have more than enough power, so for a road car the 620S probably has too much. I know I enjoyed driving a 360R SV on the road more than 620R once you've got over the initial "POWERRRRR!" bit hehe

Edited by Mario149 on Friday 22 April 08:41

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
DCL said:
If the engine was still running normally then:

Strip and clean
Check for wear and consider replacing any worn or 'out of spec' items
New big end shells (retain mains if possible)
Hone (de-glaze) bores
Lap valve seats
Check valve clearances
Replace crank seals, gaskets etc.
Replace timing chain, guides, and sprockets on higher mileage engines
Replace bolts/studs if standard to ARP (if budget allows)


If it was down on power, or oil pressure, then also:

Look more carefully at everything
Any machining work required.
New rings
New oil pump
New tensioner (modified)

So what you're saying is that these engines are less reliable than the self detonating R500 K Series engines? Those, as the Internet knows, have a built-in self destruct function that kicks in around 11,000 miles.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
Is there a new CSR out now, or are we talking about the wider, Cosworth 2.3 engined car? If we are, that's much more of a comfy tourer. Nice torquey (by 7 standards) engine, but didn't sell well and thus hard to find. Totally different to a 620 IMHO.

DCL

1,215 posts

178 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
I don't want to dig myself a hole here, but think there's a bit of thread drift here. To clarify my remarks were in response to this:

totalbunt said:
. . . does anyone know of any reliability issues with the supercharged durateq or likely refresh intervals / how many miles is the engine likely to be good for?
We're talking engines. A 310 BHP supercharged Duratec isn't going to do the 200,000 miles of a VW Golf. I'm now in my 10th year of tracking Duratec engines, and after 4 rebuilds, I've a reasonable understanding of how these engine cope with 250+ BHP.

If you're going to use the full 310 BHP on a regular basis, then 5000-10,000 miles is about as far it will stay 'fresh'.

If loosing a little bhp, burning a little oil, and hesitant starting is acceptable, then it'll go on for very much longer - there's no particular problems with the Duratec engine, just the wear rate at these power levels is many times higher than in a standard engine.

As I said, it's just my personal preference to stay on top of it.

GreigM

6,726 posts

248 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
rubystone said:
So what you're saying is that these engines are less reliable than the self detonating R500 K Series engines? Those, as the Internet knows, have a built-in self destruct function that kicks in around 11,000 miles.
To be fair, DCL is more than slightly OCD about squeezing and maintaining every last bhp out of his engine (which is highly tuned). Your more "vanilla" usage of the duratec will not see it need to be rebuilt at all during the average user's ownership. I know a couple of "factory" R400D engines which have topped 50k with nothing other than routine servicing and no issues - usage with those is primarily road with 3 or 4 track days a year thrown in so probably fairly standard for a seven. Neither owner has any plans to rebuild in the near future (or ever really) unless problems present themselves.

Unless pushed to the outer edges of performance I'd hazard a guess there have been extremely few duratec failures - I've certainly never heard of any.

nicemd

52 posts

174 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
Mario149 said:
Whereas the CSR is designed as a road car.
I read that often but don't understand where that comes from. Why would a CSR be less of a track car than a 620R?

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Friday 22nd April 2016
quotequote all
nicemd said:
Mario149 said:
Whereas the CSR is designed as a road car.
I read that often but don't understand where that comes from. Why would a CSR be less of a track car than a 620R?
Heavier, softer suspension (I imagine, assume it's similar to the 620S which is waaay softer than the R), less power and a less "hardcore" gearbox