Used R500 Duratecs, would you?

[grenpayne]

Now I'll be honest I'm not quite yet in the market for another 7 (I really miss my old R300 but our house renovation is taking priority for now), but I'm not that far away and I'm keeping a very close eye on used and new prices. There's a few used, low mileage R500 Duratecs in the classifieds for ~£37k which bearing in mind a new 420R with equivalent equipment (6 speed box, big brakes, RBTBs etc) is now £45k this seems quite cheap. Any thoughts?

[DCL]

In terms of the engine they should be OK, the R500 Duratec is reasonably robust and has all the right engine bits so, provided it has been maintained properly, there should be no worries. I'm less convinced that the R500D offers as much as it could, but that's just a matter of my opinion. I always felt that there are just too many compromises and I would do it differently. Certainly that sort of money spent on upgrading something cheaper may be more rewarding. But pro's and con's to that too.

[grenpayne]

Interesting reply DCL! In what way would you do it differently?

Part of me is suspicious that R500D prices aren't where I thought they should be (hence the question) especially as a friend had one from new and ending up sending the car back and getting a brand new replacement due to all the issues he had with it.

[DCL]

Without wanting to get into Caterham politics, I think the history of the Duratec development was not the smoothest and the R500 went into production carrying some unfinished development IMHO. It was essentially a milked R400. The exhaust and mapping could have been done better - they're not bad, just not as good as they could have been.

[grenpayne]

Fair enough, and fits with what I'd heard rumoured. That said, they look like a bit of bargain right now if you're willing to make some mods and get them remapped.

[justleanitupabit]

What are you adding to a 420 to get it to £45k?

Basic 420 is 27k, R- Pack is 4k and even if you get Caterham to build it you're still only at £34k - £35k actually because there's the £800 OTR pack which isn't optional for factory cars.

What what are you speccing up to get an extra 9k out of?

Basic car £27k
R-Pack £4k
Factory Build £3k
OTR Pack £0.8K

Just curious.

Edited by justleanitupabit on Monday 13th June 14:17

[Amris]

I did buy a R500D and haven't regretted it for a second. Absolutely incredible car. There is a significant performance gain over the R400 which you can definitely feel as a driver and even more so as a passenger.
Is it worth the additional 5k over a similar age/mileage R400? I'm honestly not sure to be honest, for road use the R400 is more than enough power and on track I doubt I have the skills to extract the performance difference, but that surge of power it delivers at the top end of the range which throws you back into your seat is completely intoxicating. For this alone I think it was a great buy.

I can't sit here and say I would 100% buy the R500D over the R400D if i was to do it again, but I can say I have not regrets in buying the R500.

[grenpayne]

justleanitupabit said:

What are you adding to a 420 to get it to £45k?

Basic 420 is 27k, R- Pack is 4k and even if you get Caterham to build it you're still only at £34k - £35k actually because there's the £800 OTR pack which isn't optional for factory cars.

What what are you speccing up to get an extra 9k out of?

Basic car £27k
R-Pack £4k
Factory Build £3k
OTR Pack £0.8K

Just curious.

As you say:

Basic car £27k
R-Pack £4k
Factory Build £3k
OTR Pack £0.8K

As I mentioned above to get the 420R to an equivalent equipment spec as the R500Ds came you need to add:

6 Speed box £2.5k
Big Brakes £0.7k
Master Cylinder £0.1k
RBTBs + map £4.1k
13" wheels £0.2k
Shift Lights £0.3k

That adds an extra £7900 plus you'll definitely need some paint and possibly doors and a windscreen. Which makes around £45k (or at least it does when I spec all the nice bits!)

Edited by grenpayne on Monday 13th June 19:58

[The Orig Fergie]

I spent a lot of time trying to decide this and then the 620 made it worse! As most of my use is on the road I decided the 620 was a bit extreme and when it came to R500D it was hard to find a car that was properly tidy (to fit with my OCD) so plumped for a new 420R with pretty much everything on it except the rollers and was nothing like 45k.

I even thought about one of the superlights having owned Caterhams original show car but decided I wanted the torque of the duratec.

So perhaps it depends on what you use the car for and if being new is important

[The Orig Fergie]

I spent a lot of time trying to decide this and then the 620 made it worse! As most of my use is on the road I decided the 620 was a bit extreme and when it came to R500D it was hard to find a car that was properly tidy (to fit with my OCD) so plumped for a new 420R with pretty much everything on it except the rollers and was nothing like 45k.

I even thought about one of the superlights having owned Caterhams original show car but decided I wanted the torque of the duratec.

So perhaps it depends on what you use the car for and if being new is important

[Amris]

grenpayne said:

justleanitupabit said:

What are you adding to a 420 to get it to £45k?

Basic 420 is 27k, R- Pack is 4k and even if you get Caterham to build it you're still only at £34k - £35k actually because there's the £800 OTR pack which isn't optional for factory cars.

What what are you speccing up to get an extra 9k out of?

Basic car £27k
R-Pack £4k
Factory Build £3k
OTR Pack £0.8K

Just curious.

As you say:

Basic car £27k
R-Pack £4k
Factory Build £3k
OTR Pack £0.8K

As I mentioned above to get the 420R to an equivalent equipment spec as the R500Ds came you need to add:

6 Speed box £2.5k
Big Brakes £0.7k
Master Cylinder £0.1k
RBTBs + map £4.1k
13" wheels £0.2k
Shift Lights £0.3k

That adds an extra £7900 plus you'll definitely need some paint and possibly doors and a windscreen. Which makes around £45k (or at least it does when I spec all the nice bits!)

Edited by grenpayne on Monday 13th June 19:58

Dont forget all the carbon, rear wings are £500 each

[mharris]

Amris said:

Dont forget all the carbon, rear wings are £500 each

Nope, they're £695 for both.

I just did some virtual shopping with the options price list. Ticking every single option, 6 speed, carbon everything including seats, big brakes, race dampers, etc, etc (but no roll cage) came to £37k

[nigelpugh7]

I did a similar exercise when looking for my next car.

Here's what I proceed up,for a 420R

Seven 420 - Complete Kit £26995
Factory Build. £3000
R Pack. £3995
Six Speed Box. £1500
Windscreen and interchangeable aero. £1550
Heater. £300
Lowered floors. £395
FIA roll bar. £195
Rear anti roll bar. Inc r pack.
Battery master cutoff. £185
Pearlescent paint. £750
Decal Kit. £275
Track suspension pack £200
13 inch 6 and 8 inch wheels and tyres. £200
Front brake four pot clippers and vented disks. £675
Seats Kevlar Race. £500
Momo Quick Release Steering Wheel. £150
Sequential shift lights. £300
Nose Cone Carbon Fibre. £495
Front cycle wings carbon fibre. £355
Rear wings carbon fibre £695
Delivery. £200
On the road package £800

Grand total. £43525

But of course I went the other way this time, snd back to basics with my Twenty!

[justleanitupabit]

nigelpugh7 said:

I did a similar exercise when looking for my next car.

Here's what I proceed up,for a 420R

Seven 420 - Complete Kit £26995
Factory Build. £3000
R Pack. £3995
Six Speed Box. £1500
Windscreen and interchangeable aero. £1550
Heater. £300
Lowered floors. £395
FIA roll bar. £195
Rear anti roll bar. Inc r pack.
Battery master cutoff. £185
Pearlescent paint. £750
Decal Kit. £275
Track suspension pack £200
13 inch 6 and 8 inch wheels and tyres. £200
Front brake four pot clippers and vented disks. £675
Seats Kevlar Race. £500
Momo Quick Release Steering Wheel. £150
Sequential shift lights. £300
Nose Cone Carbon Fibre. £495
Front cycle wings carbon fibre. £355
Rear wings carbon fibre £695
Delivery. £200
On the road package £800

Grand total. £43525

But of course I went the other way this time, snd back to basics with my Twenty!

You could go for the R pack and aeroscreen it anyway later on, that would save you £1.5 on weather/windscreen gear and £1k because the R is only 3k and includes hood etc, build it yourself and save a further £3.8 and that would bring you in at well under 40k. (34 something)

[nigelpugh7]

justleanitupabit said:

You could go for the R pack and aeroscreen it anyway later on, that would save you £1.5 on weather/windscreen gear and £1k because the R is only 3k and includes hood etc, build it yourself and save a further £3.8 and that would bring you in at well under 40k. (34 something)

Indeed I did a similar comparison with the kit version too!

Caterham 420R Home Build

Seven 420 - Complete Kit £26995
R Pack. £3995
Six Speed Box. £1500
Windscreen and interchangeable aero. £1550
Heater. £300
Lowered floors. £395
FIA roll bar. £195
Rear anti roll bar. Inc r pack.
Battery master cutoff. £185
Pearlescent paint. £750
Decal Kit. £275
Track suspension pack £200
13 inch 6 and 8 inch wheels and tyres. £200
Front brake four pot clippers and vented disks. £675
Seats Kevlar Race. £500
Momo Quick Release Steering Wheel. £150
Sequential shift lights. £300
Nose Cone Carbon Fibre. £495
Front cycle wings carbon fibre. £355

Grand total. £38860.00

[bcr5784]

6 speed box is quoted at £2500 which is a bit steep to say the least.

[nigelpugh7]

bcr5784 said:

6 speed box is quoted at £2500 which is a bit steep to say the least.

Yep I noticed that had changed too, it was listed at £1500 for the R pack when I was speccing it up a while back!

[nigelpugh7]

nigelpugh7 said:

Yep I noticed that had changed too, it was listed at £1500 for the R pack when I was speccing it up a while back!

I wonder what's changed to bump the price up by a grand?

[bcr5784]

nigelpugh7 said:

I wonder what's changed to bump the price up by a grand?

I was told they were in very short supply at the moment since production capacity of the bits was at the limit (hence the 620S was not fitted with it as standard, it was said). Could be a move to limit demand until production capacity meets demand. It's a very popular option and it wouldn't suit Caterham to have car production effectively limited by a lack of 6 speed gearboxes.

[Dave J]

ducking ridiculas prices ....