Buying a brand new Caterham

Buying a brand new Caterham

Author
Discussion

Ossiantoad

Original Poster:

263 posts

130 months

Tuesday 16th August 2016
quotequote all
I've been looking into buying a new car for business travel, Audi or BMW, and PCP is what the dealerships are pushing. Essentially it seems to me, you pay the depreciation and after three of four years you really don't have much to show for it because the guaranteed future value is £30k less than the headline price you paid in the first place.

This got me thinking about Caterhams (as a toy, not for business travel!) and the fact that they seem to hold their value like no other car on the road. The Caterham website alludes to this on their Finance page but there isn't much detail.

Can you buy a Caterham on PCP and if so does anyone have any experience of how it works out?

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Tuesday 16th August 2016
quotequote all
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink

Nicolas-mhwo7

2 posts

105 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
Good Question I was thinking the same thing my self..

I would be interested in knowing how the Caterham finance works and what that would look like on a 360R..


Ossiantoad

Original Poster:

263 posts

130 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.

Smitters

3,995 posts

156 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
Ossiantoad said:
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.
That's £20 a day depreciation... Yikes.

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.
Deposit required to get 0%.....?

They will do some cars on low / zero rates but don't kid yourself they will still (try and) make their money if you finance it.


sjg

7,444 posts

264 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
Caterham do PCP finance, but it's not supported with huge deposit contributions and subsidised rates like many of the German carmakers offer.

To a certain extent they do hold their value fairly well, although if you were to take a brand new optioned-up Seven and then dispose of it to a dealer 3 years later you'd still lose a big chunk of money. Buy, build yourself, enjoy it for 10 years then sell privately and the cost per year will seem very reasonable.

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
sjg said:
Caterham do PCP finance, but it's not supported with huge deposit contributions and subsidised rates like many of the German carmakers offer.

To a certain extent they do hold their value fairly well, although if you were to take a brand new optioned-up Seven and then dispose of it to a dealer 3 years later you'd still lose a big chunk of money. Buy, build yourself, enjoy it for 10 years then sell privately and the cost per year will seem very reasonable.
Better again, buy one a couple of years old, keep it for as long as you like, look after it, sell it for what you paid, to within £1000 or so. I made a profit on mine over 5 years. Admittedly it was a doer-upper and a better car (ie working!) when I sold it but even so that's a good trick across 5 years on a car that's 6yrs old when you buy it.

cptsideways

13,535 posts

251 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
I've been considering the wee 160 which appears to be best VFM long term, would have to be a self build though to make sure its nice.

fizz47

2,661 posts

209 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
battered said:
Better again, buy one a couple of years old, keep it for as long as you like, look after it, sell it for what you paid, to within £1000 or so. I made a profit on mine over 5 years. Admittedly it was a doer-upper and a better car (ie working!) when I sold it but even so that's a good trick across 5 years on a car that's 6yrs old when you buy it.
Where is the best place to buy second hand as there does not seem to be many on the market? In addition when you go to sell how difficult is it to shift?

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
fizz47 said:
battered said:
Better again, buy one a couple of years old, keep it for as long as you like, look after it, sell it for what you paid, to within £1000 or so. I made a profit on mine over 5 years. Admittedly it was a doer-upper and a better car (ie working!) when I sold it but even so that's a good trick across 5 years on a car that's 6yrs old when you buy it.
Where is the best place to buy second hand as there does not seem to be many on the market? In addition when you go to sell how difficult is it to shift?
Owners' clubs, PH classifieds, etc. Dealers want a hefty premium but you get the advantages of superior choice, warranty etc. Buy in the North of England (less demand) and at the end of the year, in the usual way for sports cars. They are not hard to sell, subject to condition, location and price. They attract internet dreamers, I had one such who strung me along for weeks with emailed questions. Some specs are slower to sell and cheaper, Zetec models are unloved because they were never a factory option. Good cars though. There's demand for every possible Caterham 7 though, from the scruffy 10 year old or ex race sub - £10k versions all the way to the top-of-the-shop £30k+ jobs with carbon everything and a million BHP. You'll always re-sell.

fizz47

2,661 posts

209 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
battered said:
Owners' clubs, PH classifieds, etc. Dealers want a hefty premium but you get the advantages of superior choice, warranty etc. Buy in the North of England (less demand) and at the end of the year, in the usual way for sports cars. They are not hard to sell, subject to condition, location and price. They attract internet dreamers, I had one such who strung me along for weeks with emailed questions. Some specs are slower to sell and cheaper, Zetec models are unloved because they were never a factory option. Good cars though. There's demand for every possible Caterham 7 though, from the scruffy 10 year old or ex race sub - £10k versions all the way to the top-of-the-shop £30k+ jobs with carbon everything and a million BHP. You'll always re-sell.
Thanks!

Am all over the place with car choice today - was about to pull a trigger on an audi A6 diesel company car until I started thinking logically and realised buying outright is much better. Have looked at daily drivers at 15k mark..

So now am thinking 3k on a daily hack and 12 - 15 k on a caterham. They seem to be depreciation proof.

Im only in the country 2 weeks a month so driving the Caterham would be weekend and odd day to the office. Would never track the car so would be road use only.

Any particular model to recommend? I am not mechanically minded and want something that I can just get in and drive and can be easily serviced by someone else.

I have driven 3 caterhams in the past - had them for a weekend.

A roadsport 160, an R300 and I cannot remember the last one.








battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
12-15k is depreciation free. Give or take.

If you aren't mechanically minded then buy a recentish model (<5 years, <20k miles, say) and buy the best you can find. K series are getting old now so Sigmas and Duras are probably the easier choice.

For road use I think 150bhp (R300ish) is the sweet spot on road, others say nearer 200 bhp. Don't pay to insure power you don't need.

coppice

8,561 posts

143 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
My 225bhp Seven is the same price to insure as my 125bhp Focus - and the old adage of 'enough's as good as a feast but more's better ' has a slight ring of truth . But any Seven is just huge fun - whether 120bhp or twice that .A new owner's ego does need to adjust to the fact that in heavy rain 120bhp can feel like way too much ...if Sevens teach you one thing it is how to evolve an educated right foot !

fergus

6,430 posts

274 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
coppice said:
My 225bhp Seven is the same price to insure as my 125bhp Focus - and the old adage of 'enough's as good as a feast but more's better ' has a slight ring of truth . But any Seven is just huge fun - whether 120bhp or twice that .A new owner's ego does need to adjust to the fact that in heavy rain 120bhp can feel like way too much ...if Sevens teach you one thing it is how to evolve an educated right foot !
Just be 2 gears lower, and drive as normal thumbup

Ossiantoad

Original Poster:

263 posts

130 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.
Deposit required to get 0%.....?

They will do some cars on low / zero rates but don't kid yourself they will still (try and) make their money if you finance it.
The deal was zero deposit.

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.
Deposit required to get 0%.....?

They will do some cars on low / zero rates but don't kid yourself they will still (try and) make their money if you finance it.
The deal was zero deposit.
Interesting. But also confusing. As the current deal on 640d's is 9k down and 560 a month at 0% with discounted price of 54700.
Your deal is 610 a month but with zero down at 0% but at 50k. If that's a genuine deal I would say its a very good deal as its basically c.£5k cheaper than it should be.

Ossiantoad

Original Poster:

263 posts

130 months

Wednesday 17th August 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Ossiantoad said:
red_slr said:
Dealers are pushing PCP as they make thousands of pounds out of it.

Your average £30k BMW / Audi might cost c.£38k on PCP @9% APR.
Yes it give you the option to hand back etc and yes for some people they work well (myself included) but it sounds like you need to take some better advice rather than trusting a car dealer...

Personally if you are going to PCP a car because that best suits your needs its almost always possible to get a better rate via a specialist. Audi and BMW will always try and push you into 10-12% APR deals which are frankly a total rip off.

The really smart people push the dealer for massive discounts as a reward for taking their crazy high PCP deal and then as soon as they take delivery of the car they pay off the PCP under the 14 day cooling off period...

wink
Actually BMW are offering me a 640d, pre-registered on a 16 plate with 6 miles on the clock, discounted to £50k on a 0% deal. Guaranteed future value is £20,700 after 48 months. Can't see how that is a bad deal for me (at least no worse than paying cash) although I'm not going to take them up on the offer.
Deposit required to get 0%.....?

They will do some cars on low / zero rates but don't kid yourself they will still (try and) make their money if you finance it.
The deal was zero deposit.
Interesting. But also confusing. As the current deal on 640d's is 9k down and 560 a month at 0% with discounted price of 54700.
Your deal is 610 a month but with zero down at 0% but at 50k. If that's a genuine deal I would say its a very good deal as its basically c.£5k cheaper than it should be.
It's on the Elms BMW Bedford website, KW16PYG. Fill yer boots!

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Thursday 18th August 2016
quotequote all
Ah its pre reg sorry I missed that! That will be why the deal I quoted was new - you can probably get that car even cheaper in about a week or so as they will really be flapping as they get near 1/9..

Ossiantoad

Original Poster:

263 posts

130 months

Thursday 18th August 2016
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Ah its pre reg sorry I missed that! That will be why the deal I quoted was new - you can probably get that car even cheaper in about a week or so as they will really be flapping as they get near 1/9..
Yes, registered in May, only had six miles on the clock when I saw it. You're right will be cheaper in a couple of weeks if they can't shift it!