40k for a Caterham, worth buying new?

[HypeM135i]

Looking at the 420R built and delivered by Caterham, I like the idea of buying new as A) I'll not be putting many miles on it B) I know it's not going to have any problems C) When I eventually come to sell I'll have a mint 1 owner example factory built with hardly any miles.

Coming from an M235i which is quick, is the 420R going to be fast and exciting enough for me? I am guessing it will look at those figures! Any other recommendations or advice? I've specced the car up to 37k at the moment with...

Windscreen & Side Screens
Armrests
Riviera Blue Paint
R Package
Factory Build
Track Roll Bar
Snap Off Steerinf Wheel
Carpeted Interior
Polished Exhaust
Painted Number 7


Are the seats comfortable or not as standard R? Any other upgrades I should be looking at? Basically I will track it rarely and drive it round country road often!

[coppice]

Bin the carpets - they will get wet and then smell like wet dog.You can't really compare Sevens to normal cars as they are so visceral , thanks to no weight and no electronic safety nets. You won't believe how truly awful a Seven can be on the wrong road in the wrong conditions. But you will hear choirs of angels sing on the right road in the right conditions.And be careful - especially in the wet - they can bite .

Edited by coppice on Tuesday 23 August 08:51

[HurryUpAndWait]

HypeM135i said:

Coming from an M235i which is quick, is the 420R going to be fast and exciting enough for me?

Exciting enough?! It will be an utterly visceral experience that will make your 2-series feel like a GT.

Not dissimilarly, I've a 130i and an R300. Most of the time the R300 is too exciting, but that's the fun

[coppice]

Are you going 6 speed or 5? Pros and cons for both . Roller barrel throttle bodies - if Caterham still do them ?- make a massive difference in noise and responsiveness- if you spec one option that is the one to go for. Not cheap ,mind, but it made a huge improvement to my own R400D

[DCL]

I often think back to when I ordered mine and how wrong I got it. A standard car would have suited me much better. So, (and not 100% sure what you get with the standard car these days) wide track, big brakes, up-rated master cylinder, roller barrels, LSD, 13 inch wheels, and a six speed box. Paint and carbon to taste.

Definitely no heater, windscreen, or interior trim - a seven is just not about that.

[coppice]

That rather depends on what you use it for and your own personal preferences. Mine is often about doing long journeys , sometimes, and unavoidably ,in vile weather. So I have heater, screen etc and don't feel less of a man because I do.Aeroscreens are a personal thing - I wouldn't be paid to use one but some folk love 'em.

[subirg]

I've had my R400 duratec for 9 years. Bought it new as it was one of the earliest duratecs and not yet available used. Don't regret it for a minute.

My mission brief is mostly track with the odd road trip including down to spa and the Nring.

My initial spec:

- 6 speed
- 13 inch wheels
- interchangeable windscreen / aero
- lowered floors
- track day roll bar
- 12v socket
- standard Tillets

I've since upgraded all sorts of stuff:

- Caterham roller barrels
- race suspension
- ditched the heavy full hood and now use the half hood exclusively
- zzr tyres

Future upgrade:

- roadsport cage

You don't want carpets (damp issues)

Now the car is properly set up, has done nearly 20k miles and is epic! I don't think I'll ever sell it (another reason for buying new...)

[bcr5784]

HypeM135i said:

Coming from an M235i which is quick, is the 420R going to be fast and exciting enough for me?

A 420R does 0-100mph in around 10 seconds which is pretty quick - certainly quicker than a M235i and I have no doubt it will FEEL much quicker. Sure the top speed won't compare, but that not what Caterhams are about. Only test is to drive one - it will, I'm sure feel damn quick and I very much doubt you will ever want for more on the road and arguably you might be happy with either the 360 or the new 310. You might be surprised how quick they feel at vaguely legal speeds.

I have a Cayman S which is only slightly slower on paper to 100mph than the 420, but never feels nearly as quick. If you intend tracking the car a fair bit then the low top speed might be an issue and a 420 might be a good choice rather than a slower model.

[coppice]

The key , fundamental point is that whilst some Sevens accelerate extremely briskly , that in itself isn't what defines them. Even a relatively low powered (but still healthy bhp/tonne) Seven feels quite unlike anything else apart from cars with the same broad recipe. It's all about weight and if anybody hasn't driven a real featherweight car it is difficult to convey just how liberating it is - suddenly you find that you are braking miles after you'd be pushing hard on the pedal in a typical 1300kg sporty hatch .

[Eric Mc]

coppice said:

suddenly you find that you are braking miles after you'd be pushing hard on the pedal in a typical 1300kg sporty hatch .

That's as much to do with the brick like aerodynamics as anything else - but is sure surprises anyone following behind.

Indeed, with a full windscreen, "aerobraking" is extremely effective. My brake pads hardly wear.

[HypeM135i]

coppice said:

Bin the carpets - they will get wet and then smell like wet dog.You can't really compare Sevens to normal cars as they are so visceral , thanks to no weight and no electronic safety nets. You won't believe how truly awful a Seven can be on the wrong road in the wrong conditions. But you will hear choirs of angels sing on the right road in the right conditions.And be careful - especially in the wet - they can bite .

Edited by coppice on Tuesday 23 August 08:51

Thanks, I will keep that in mind... and yes I will mainly take it out in the dry!

HurryUpAndWait said:

Exciting enough?! It will be an utterly visceral experience that will make your 2-series feel like a GT.

Not dissimilarly, I've a 130i and an R300. Most of the time the R300 is too exciting, but that's the fun

Sounds amazing, I drove a single seater at brands hatch and was one of the best driving experiences of my life, so just can't wait to get into a Caterham now.

coppice said:

Are you going 6 speed or 5? Pros and cons for both . Roller barrel throttle bodies - if Caterham still do them ?- make a massive difference in noise and responsiveness- if you spec one option that is the one to go for. Not cheap ,mind, but it made a huge improvement to my own R400D

I am thinking about going for the 5 speed, so you would go for the 5 or 6 speed? I want as aggressive, as noisy, as I want to rip your face off as possible

So ultimately, do you think I am best buying new? I've seen some R300 models (2003 plate) but I worry with older models both on reliability and the fact that sometimes you get people who flog a car as soon as they find a huge problem, and not being a mechanic I wouldn't even know where to start looking for those issues, so new to me seems to make the most sense. I also love the fact these cars hold there value so well.

[Pdelamare]

If you want 'rip your face off' spend an extra £12k and buy the 620R SV that's for sale. 65 mile on it only, brand new as it gets really.

[HypeM135i]

Pdelamare said:

If you want 'rip your face off' spend an extra £12k and buy the 620R SV that's for sale. 65 mile on it only, brand new as it gets really.

I know that would be amazing, but I can only go to around 40k really as I also will need to buy a cheap run around to replace the BMW as well, so unfortunately 40 is my limit pretty much!

[JONSCZ]

Alex, I have sent you a PM - worth checking your 'junk mail' on your registered email.
Cheers,
Jon
(It's about my 2013, R400D SV I am selling atm)

Edited by JONSCZ on Tuesday 23 August 15:42

[mr_fibuli]

I went the opposite way - from a Westfield Megablade to an M235i. Even if there is not much in it in a straight line, the Caterham will feel stupidly fast and connected to the road in comparison to the BMW, thanks to the lack of insulation, analogue controls, and height of bum from tarmac.

I'm lazy though so I found I could rarely be bothered with the hassle of taking the Westy out, so I decided to swap it (and a depressingly dull 320d) for a comfy, practical daily driver of similar performance.

[MikeO996]

You'd be well advised to hire one before buying.
I'm not convinced by the buying new argument; there's loads of low mileage used cars around, it's rather the norm, and a lightly used car may well be better sorted than a new one.
The only reason for buying a Caterham new to me would be the pleasure of knowing you're the first owner

[g7jhp]

Did anyone mention it was a visceral experience?

Anyway I'd suggest going and testing a 360R as well as a 420R. You may find less is more.

I had a 175bhp Caterham 7 HPC and that was quick enough on the road.

[bcr5784]

g7jhp said:

Did anyone mention it was a visceral experience?

Anyway I'd suggest going and testing a 360R as well as a 420R. You may find less is more.

I had a 175bhp Caterham 7 HPC and that was quick enough on the road.

While I'm inclined to agree that less is more, having tried both 360R and 420R recently, I came back preferring the 420. It may have been because the 360 wasn't run in (only had 300 miles on the clock) but the 420 seemed MORE flexible/tractable - stupidly fast if that was your mood, but perfectly docile if it wasn't, the 360 seemed more "lumpy". So I'd be interested in how a 310 feels as the 420 is more than I need and it is difficult to justify the cost over a 310.

[tight fart]

Armrests

[anonymous-user]

HypeM135i said:

Looking at the 420R built and delivered by Caterham, I like the idea of buying new as A) I'll not be putting many miles on it B) I know it's not going to have any problems C) When I eventually come to sell I'll have a mint 1 owner example factory built with hardly any miles.

Coming from an M235i which is quick, is the 420R going to be fast and exciting enough for me? I am guessing it will look at those figures! Any other recommendations or advice? I've specced the car up to 37k at the moment with...

Windscreen & Side Screens
Armrests
Riviera Blue Paint
R Package
Factory Build
Track Roll Bar
Snap Off Steerinf Wheel
Carpeted Interior
Polished Exhaust
Painted Number 7


Are the seats comfortable or not as standard R? Any other upgrades I should be looking at? Basically I will track it rarely and drive it round country road often!

My spider senses tell me it might not be the car for you! It's meaningless to draw a comparison with your road car. It'll be much faster in many situations but will take a lot more skill and effort to be so. The ride is pretty poor compared to most road cars ( a Caterham soon shows you crappy most of our roads are!), most creature comforts are non existent and you'll need to wear hearing protection when you drive it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the R400 I built last year and wouldn't ever part with it. I just wouldn't want to not have good alternatives for many occasions

Maybe it's just me but a lot of the pleasure of ownership, apart from building oneself, is in maintaining and modding the car! Will you be doing that? I'm not sure a factory build is any guarantee of trouble free motoring, I think I'd prefer a competent self build myself.

Whatever you do, have a good drive in one before you buy!