310 (6 speed) vs 360 (5 speed) - thoughts?
Discussion
Having almost pulled the trigger on a 360R with a 5 speed and LSD, for a 90% road, 10% track toy, I'm now wondering whether a 310 with a 6 speed box might be more fun.
I realise the 310's Sigma unit isn't as upgradable as the 360's Duratec, but I've mainly been agonising over the gearboxes & final drive ratios. I know that most folks recommend a 5 speed in the 360 for my sort of use, but it just seems...well, so old fashioned. Head says 5 speed, heart says 6 speed "because race car".
So, might a 310 with a 6 speed be the sweet spot?
Thoughts?
chemistry
I realise the 310's Sigma unit isn't as upgradable as the 360's Duratec, but I've mainly been agonising over the gearboxes & final drive ratios. I know that most folks recommend a 5 speed in the 360 for my sort of use, but it just seems...well, so old fashioned. Head says 5 speed, heart says 6 speed "because race car".
So, might a 310 with a 6 speed be the sweet spot?
Thoughts?
chemistry
Why not the 360 + 6 speed?
Seems to me like you want the 360 but also want the 6 speed, yet have come to some conclusion that they're not suitable for each other.
The 6 speed gear ratios are the same whether you choose 310 or 360. It doesn't make sense to say 310 + 6 speed is suitable for road use, but 360 + 6 speed isn't - they're the same ratios. Both will be sat at exactly the same RPM on the motorway.
Personally I consider the engines and gearboxes separately...
1) How much power do I want.. lots (310), or loads (360).
2) What driving style do I prefer.. ripping through to the redline while keeping busy (6 speed), or long lazy strides through the midrange (5 speed).
Of course there is the argument that on track a 360 with a 6 speed probably isn't any faster than the 5 speed because you spend more time changing gear. But for primarily road use I'd be much more concerned with getting the level of involvement where you want it, rather than which is 0.1 sec faster.
You sound quite knowledgeable, are you a current or previous owner? A test drive will tell you what you need to know. I certainly wouldn't be signing anything until I'd had a go in each. You might even find you simply prefer the feel of one of the 'boxes regardless of its ratios.
Seems to me like you want the 360 but also want the 6 speed, yet have come to some conclusion that they're not suitable for each other.
The 6 speed gear ratios are the same whether you choose 310 or 360. It doesn't make sense to say 310 + 6 speed is suitable for road use, but 360 + 6 speed isn't - they're the same ratios. Both will be sat at exactly the same RPM on the motorway.
Personally I consider the engines and gearboxes separately...
1) How much power do I want.. lots (310), or loads (360).
2) What driving style do I prefer.. ripping through to the redline while keeping busy (6 speed), or long lazy strides through the midrange (5 speed).
Of course there is the argument that on track a 360 with a 6 speed probably isn't any faster than the 5 speed because you spend more time changing gear. But for primarily road use I'd be much more concerned with getting the level of involvement where you want it, rather than which is 0.1 sec faster.
You sound quite knowledgeable, are you a current or previous owner? A test drive will tell you what you need to know. I certainly wouldn't be signing anything until I'd had a go in each. You might even find you simply prefer the feel of one of the 'boxes regardless of its ratios.
Edited by mharris on Thursday 15th September 21:28
mharris said:
Why not the 360 + 6 speed?
Seems to me like you want the 360 but also want the 6 speed, yet have come to some conclusion that they're not suitable for each other.
The 6 speed gear ratios are the same whether you choose 310 or 360. It doesn't make sense to say 310 + 6 speed is suitable for road use, but 360 + 6 speed isn't - they're the same ratios. Both will be sat at exactly the same RPM on the motorway.
Personally I consider the engines and gearboxes separately...
1) How much power do I want.. lots (310), or loads (360).
2) What driving style do I prefer.. ripping through to the redline while keeping busy (6 speed), or long lazy strides through the midrange (5 speed).
Of course there is the argument that on track a 360 with a 6 speed probably isn't any faster than the 5 speed because you spend more time changing gear. But for primarily road use I'd be much more concerned with getting the level of involvement where you want it, rather than which is 0.1 sec faster.
You sound quite knowledgeable, are you a current or previous owner? A test drive will tell you what you need to know. I certainly wouldn't be signing anything until I'd had a go in each. You might even find you simply prefer the feel of one of the 'boxes regardless of its ratios.
or 310 5 speed? The question is what floats your boat. The argument for 6 speed is almost entirely that people get a kick out of shifting up or down the box for the fun of it - even with the 310 I doubt you will gain time by having 6 speeds. But a Caterham isn't really about going fastest (even if they are damn fast) it's about what makes you smile most - and only you can make that judgement. Personally I'm in the 5 speed camp - but I'm probably in the minority.Seems to me like you want the 360 but also want the 6 speed, yet have come to some conclusion that they're not suitable for each other.
The 6 speed gear ratios are the same whether you choose 310 or 360. It doesn't make sense to say 310 + 6 speed is suitable for road use, but 360 + 6 speed isn't - they're the same ratios. Both will be sat at exactly the same RPM on the motorway.
Personally I consider the engines and gearboxes separately...
1) How much power do I want.. lots (310), or loads (360).
2) What driving style do I prefer.. ripping through to the redline while keeping busy (6 speed), or long lazy strides through the midrange (5 speed).
Of course there is the argument that on track a 360 with a 6 speed probably isn't any faster than the 5 speed because you spend more time changing gear. But for primarily road use I'd be much more concerned with getting the level of involvement where you want it, rather than which is 0.1 sec faster.
You sound quite knowledgeable, are you a current or previous owner? A test drive will tell you what you need to know. I certainly wouldn't be signing anything until I'd had a go in each. You might even find you simply prefer the feel of one of the 'boxes regardless of its ratios.
Edited by mharris on Thursday 15th September 21:28
If it was me I would try and find the cash to go 420/5. The extra grunt of the 420 removes a lot of the weaknesses that a 5 speed would have in a 360 and some extra grunt is always nice.
I went down this route and I am happy I did. To give you some idea, sometimes I think I would like more power than a std 420 but I don't really think I need to change the box.
I am road focused and I find a 5 speed is pretty good. The ratios could be better. Not sure what Caterhams thinking is, unless they just want to report a fast 0 to 60, but 1st and 2nd are a bit short. 2nd is sometimes a pain overtaking slow traffic on the road because if you are a bit off power in third, when you kick down to second you will be needing to upshift about a second after you nail the throttle. Irritating but not the end of the world. However on the upside 3 and 4 are very sweet. If I am on a blast then almost all the serious stuff will be in 3 and 4 and 5th is nice as an overdrive because when I am flat out in 4th on the kind of roads I go on then I am usually happy to upshift to get out of the manic revs without looking for a lot more pace.
I went down this route and I am happy I did. To give you some idea, sometimes I think I would like more power than a std 420 but I don't really think I need to change the box.
I am road focused and I find a 5 speed is pretty good. The ratios could be better. Not sure what Caterhams thinking is, unless they just want to report a fast 0 to 60, but 1st and 2nd are a bit short. 2nd is sometimes a pain overtaking slow traffic on the road because if you are a bit off power in third, when you kick down to second you will be needing to upshift about a second after you nail the throttle. Irritating but not the end of the world. However on the upside 3 and 4 are very sweet. If I am on a blast then almost all the serious stuff will be in 3 and 4 and 5th is nice as an overdrive because when I am flat out in 4th on the kind of roads I go on then I am usually happy to upshift to get out of the manic revs without looking for a lot more pace.
Edited by ND395 on Saturday 17th September 00:37
Edited by ND395 on Saturday 17th September 00:38
FST said:
The 5 speed is great when you have enough power and torque to allow the luxury of having an overdrive (which is what 5th effectively is on this gearbox). I'd say at least 200 Bhp (i.e. the 420?) is the point at which a 5 speed is viable. Otherwise go for 6, and have fun..
Do Caterham still specify the Type 9 gearbox for these latest cars? I'm aware one of the options on some models is a 5 speed from Mazda? Hi Just out of interest what final drive ratios are available? if there is a choice? that would then lead to which box is best suitable for your needs, I went from Caterham 6 speed which was a delight to use always felt special to Sadev sequential with overdrive 6th and Geartronics and a (3.14 diff!!! not my choice) but gives really good MPG @80 motorway runs with circa 280BHP and is very rapid indeed. 
chemistry said:
bcr5784 said:
1st and 2nd are both higher on the mazda box so it's definitely better than the t9. Still too wide ratios to be ideal, but the 6 speed ratios are too close to be sensible, so there isn't an ideal solution.
This, sadly, is exactly the problem :-(I don't find the 6 speed has any problem on track. I would agree it's typically used with too low a final drive for the road, but only if doing long runs at steady motorways speeds which the more powerful 7s aren't that good at in any case. IMO.
On country lanes, blatting about, it's fine. Again IMO.
A mate has a 195bhp with the 5 speed and, certainly on track, is often struggling to find a good gear for a particular corner.
Horses for courses and personal choice I guess. Try both and take your pick. I don't think I'd change for a 5 speed as they are currently.
the 'old' 5 speed wasn't a patch on the Caterham 6 speed, but the latter with a 3.92 'diff was too manic for extended motorway cruising.As above, the 6 speed is absolutely brilliant everywhere except for motorways and dual-carriageways. But lets face it a Caterham is pretty terrible at motorways and dual-carriageways anyway regardless of gearbox.
So you could look at it one of two ways..
Either try to improve that aspect of the driving experience as much as possible with a 5 speed 'box.
Or focus on improving the areas where a Caterham shines.
You'll generally be avoiding motorways regardless of what gearbox you have fitted. So from that you can probably assume where my priorities lie.
So you could look at it one of two ways..
Either try to improve that aspect of the driving experience as much as possible with a 5 speed 'box.
Or focus on improving the areas where a Caterham shines.
You'll generally be avoiding motorways regardless of what gearbox you have fitted. So from that you can probably assume where my priorities lie.
Just to put this in context I did some calcs on a 310 with the 5 speed box. I reckon it needs to be geared for 120mph maximum speed if you have a screen. I don't know what axle ratios are possible - but something like a 4.2 would be good with the standard 185/60 14 tyres. That gives 39 in first 64 in second 91 in third and 121 in 4th at 7500 revs. 5th is an overdrive with 20mph/thousand. A 3.9 diff ratio gives similar figures with 13" wheels with 185/55 tyres.
I don't think that would be too bad a set of ratios.
The current (i think) 3.64 bmw diff gives 41, 68,97 and 129 at 7500 with 13 inch wheels which is a bit long in the intermediates. Certainly with a 3.64 diff 13" wheels would be the way to go if you are minded to go 5 speed.
The 6 speed with the 3.64 diff and 13 inch wheels gives 48 in first, 64 in second, 81 in 3rd 98 in fourth 114 in fifth and 129 in 6th at 7500. first is already a bit high for the 1.6 engine, so going for 14 or 15 inch wheels with the aim of getting more relaxed cruising isn't ideal either.
I don't think that would be too bad a set of ratios.
The current (i think) 3.64 bmw diff gives 41, 68,97 and 129 at 7500 with 13 inch wheels which is a bit long in the intermediates. Certainly with a 3.64 diff 13" wheels would be the way to go if you are minded to go 5 speed.
The 6 speed with the 3.64 diff and 13 inch wheels gives 48 in first, 64 in second, 81 in 3rd 98 in fourth 114 in fifth and 129 in 6th at 7500. first is already a bit high for the 1.6 engine, so going for 14 or 15 inch wheels with the aim of getting more relaxed cruising isn't ideal either.
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 18th September 09:04
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 18th September 12:05
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 18th September 13:45
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