Caterham R500 vs 620R
Discussion
Do you record any footage witha GoPro when you do the Spanish time attacks? I'd love to see a vid if you do! I'll have to make the trip one day, perfect weather and quiet roads sounds to good to resist!
The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
Edited by Fodey87 on Wednesday 21st September 23:08
jeffw said:
I have the helical gear version of the Quaife 60G sequential in the Phoenix and it is no more noisy than a synchro Type 9. The 60G copes fine with 400BHP/300 ft lb.
Heical gears a far quieter than straight cut. Straight cut tend to whine rather loudly, I believe the sequential used in the 620R is straight cut.Like the idea of helical though,
Will look into that. Thanks
Fodey87 said:
Do you record any footage witha GoPro when you do the Spanish time attacks? I'd love to see a vid if you do! I'll have to make the trip one day, perfect weather and quiet roads sounds to good to resist!
The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
Yes I have some videos, from Ascari circuit, and Guadix circuit. The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
Edited by Fodey87 on Wednesday 21st September 23:08
Not sure how to send them to u?
Email me through here and I will try and send them as attachment.
Assuming of course that I can transfere them from memory card.
I'm in no hurry, Tbh not sure I would sell? But I'm thinking of building another but with the new Honda engine
KZ 20 supercharged giving 350 bhp, and lots more torque.
I'm in perhaps a unique position that I've owned a Megabusa, Caterham R500D and now a 620R and used all extensively on road and track.
I really enjoyed the Megabusa and it had significantly better handling than any Caterham I've driven (I put it down to the wider track, lighter engine which is further back from the front axle and the independent rear) however once you get towards the limit of its handling you need more power to go quicker, so moved onto the big power Caterhams. I've since spent a lot on the suspension and setup of my 620 to get that Megabusa handling feel back and think I've now achieved it.
As others have said, you have to work the R500 quite hard to get it really going - I was initially surprised at its lack of torque low down but does ultimately go very quickly. My car was a custom build engine/ECU but fundamentally had the same power and a similar curve to the factory 500 and was very driveable in all gears.
The 620R is very similar in many ways - it has more torque all the way through the power band, but never too much. Largely you are unaware that it is FI, and drives very much like a larger engined NA car. Once above 2000rpm it is very tractable and the stories of wheelspin in 3rd are either bad driving, bad tyres or bad surface. On a dry track day with warmish tyres you won't get wheelspin in any gear. There is a slight issue with lack of smoothness when lightly pressing throttle between 1500-2000rpm which I put down to bad mapping. Apart from that though, stories from either car of them being wild and uncontrollable are nonsense - the throttle is not digital, they can both be driven sedately at town speeds with no issue.
The real difference between the two is above 60mph. The 620Rs party piece is the 80-120mph range - the rate of acceleration here is stunning and shows the difference between the cars.
Both will be great for hillclimbs, but the 620 will be quicker. Sequential box isn't the smoothest when coming on/off the throttle, but I also found the caterham 6-speed to be a notchy pig so both have their downsides - if on track take the sequential.
I really enjoyed the Megabusa and it had significantly better handling than any Caterham I've driven (I put it down to the wider track, lighter engine which is further back from the front axle and the independent rear) however once you get towards the limit of its handling you need more power to go quicker, so moved onto the big power Caterhams. I've since spent a lot on the suspension and setup of my 620 to get that Megabusa handling feel back and think I've now achieved it.
As others have said, you have to work the R500 quite hard to get it really going - I was initially surprised at its lack of torque low down but does ultimately go very quickly. My car was a custom build engine/ECU but fundamentally had the same power and a similar curve to the factory 500 and was very driveable in all gears.
The 620R is very similar in many ways - it has more torque all the way through the power band, but never too much. Largely you are unaware that it is FI, and drives very much like a larger engined NA car. Once above 2000rpm it is very tractable and the stories of wheelspin in 3rd are either bad driving, bad tyres or bad surface. On a dry track day with warmish tyres you won't get wheelspin in any gear. There is a slight issue with lack of smoothness when lightly pressing throttle between 1500-2000rpm which I put down to bad mapping. Apart from that though, stories from either car of them being wild and uncontrollable are nonsense - the throttle is not digital, they can both be driven sedately at town speeds with no issue.
The real difference between the two is above 60mph. The 620Rs party piece is the 80-120mph range - the rate of acceleration here is stunning and shows the difference between the cars.
Both will be great for hillclimbs, but the 620 will be quicker. Sequential box isn't the smoothest when coming on/off the throttle, but I also found the caterham 6-speed to be a notchy pig so both have their downsides - if on track take the sequential.
Fodey87 said:
Do you record any footage witha GoPro when you do the Spanish time attacks? I'd love to see a vid if you do! I'll have to make the trip one day, perfect weather and quiet roads sounds to good to resist!
The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
When you say middle of October are you racing in the magnificent sevens ?The final event for me this season is in the middle of October and then I'll put the Megabusa up for sale. I'm in no rush to get another car as its not going to get much use if any before April next year but I will definitely like to come and meet you see yours. There are a couple of used 620R's I need to have a look at also.
Cheers Mitch.
Edited by Fodey87 on Wednesday 21st September 23:08
Really appreciate the insight Greig! You've put my mind at rest from a few apprehensions I had of the 620R. I think the R500 is out of the window now because I know I'd regret not having the extreme power the 620R possess. Saying that I will test a few cars before purchasing anything. How long have you had your 620R for and what are the running cost like? Do you service it yourself if not how much is a service? Do you know the mpg your getting
(I know that's not what you brought it for but still of interest) how do you find the reliability of the 620R? I had an insurance quote from Footman James Yesterday for £178 fully comp for the year including 35 days of driving in any European country plus you could add 3 track days to the policy for about another £100, what a bargain!
Hi cwin the event I'm entering isn't the Magnificent sevens although that sounds fun, it's a local hillclimb at Tregehan Manor House in Cornwall. There is an Sprint this Sunday but I'm going to miss it as I've just had to have the Megabusa's gear box rebuilt, that's part of the reason I want to sell it and get a car engined Caterham I'm hoping to get a lot more reliability from it.
Hi JackG you mentioned you are picking up a new 620R soon. How did you find the process of ordering the car from Caterham and do they have room for negotiation from the prices stated on there website?
Cheers Mitch.
(I know that's not what you brought it for but still of interest) how do you find the reliability of the 620R? I had an insurance quote from Footman James Yesterday for £178 fully comp for the year including 35 days of driving in any European country plus you could add 3 track days to the policy for about another £100, what a bargain!
Hi cwin the event I'm entering isn't the Magnificent sevens although that sounds fun, it's a local hillclimb at Tregehan Manor House in Cornwall. There is an Sprint this Sunday but I'm going to miss it as I've just had to have the Megabusa's gear box rebuilt, that's part of the reason I want to sell it and get a car engined Caterham I'm hoping to get a lot more reliability from it.
Hi JackG you mentioned you are picking up a new 620R soon. How did you find the process of ordering the car from Caterham and do they have room for negotiation from the prices stated on there website?
Cheers Mitch.
jackg said:
Hi GreigM
I'm just about to collect my new 620R which will be used mainly for track days.
I'd be really interested to hear how you feel you have got the handling right. Save me a load of time tiinkering!
Basically, give Simon @ Meteor a truck load of cash I'm just about to collect my new 620R which will be used mainly for track days.
I'd be really interested to hear how you feel you have got the handling right. Save me a load of time tiinkering!
If you are going to stick with the standard suspension (way too stiff IMO) then I'd start by getting as soft a front roll-bar as you can, reduce the stupid amount of front camber (done for aggressive appearance, completely destroys braking). At the back change the standard pads for something more aggressive (DS3000s or something similarly grabby), and get the rear end checked to see if the de-dion is square and if not (very common) then get it shimmed to correct the toe.
Fodey87 said:
How long have you had your 620R for and what are the running cost like? Do you service it yourself if not how much is a service? Do you know the mpg your getting
(I know that's not what you brought it for but still of interest) how do you find the reliability of the 620R?
I've had it 18months. Don't really pay attention to running costs - they are low compared to anything else you put on a track (I used to track a Porsche GT3 and worked out in 1 year it cost me over £10k in running costs). (I know that's not what you brought it for but still of interest) how do you find the reliability of the 620R?
Yes, service it myself as I go to extreme lengths to keep it mechanically sound (not DCL extreme, but getting there). Oil, filter, gear oil get changed 3 to 4 times a year depending on how much use it gets. Diff Oil annually. Plugs about twice a year. Only thing I haven't changed yet is the traction oil (bloody expensive stuff) but it is supposed to last 50k miles+ - I'll change it next year at 5k. I've also fitted an oil temp gauge to make sure the temps are properly managed.
The car is very simple to service, and the marketplace for 7s accepts/expects self servicing so long as you are somewhat competent keep records/receipts.
mpg - not a clue. 20L will get about 50 to 60 miles on track - so maybe about 15mpg. On road possibly somewhere in the 20-25mpg range (depends on how you drive, it is basically a racing engine so don't expect good economy out of it).
Reliability - bit of a sore point. I've had a number of failures, however none of which are specific to the 620R - just generic Caterham/kit car issues that happen across models. Engine/box themselves feel like the most solid parts of the car.
GreigM said:
Only thing I haven't changed yet is the traction oil (bloody expensive stuff) but it is supposed to last 50k miles+ - I'll change it next year at 5k. I've also fitted an oil temp gauge to make sure the temps are properly managed.
Reliability - bit of a sore point. I've had a number of failures, however none of which are specific to the 620R - just generic Caterham/kit car issues that happen across models. Engine/box themselves feel like the most solid parts of the car.
Great feedback!Reliability - bit of a sore point. I've had a number of failures, however none of which are specific to the 620R - just generic Caterham/kit car issues that happen across models. Engine/box themselves feel like the most solid parts of the car.
What's the "traction oil"? If the car has TC, is it not done via the ignition/fuelling? Re the oil temp gauge, I presume this is for the gearbox or diff?
Regarding reliability, what sort of failures have you experienced?
Bottom left shows 3 way Penskes from Simon @ Meteor motorsport that transformed the car, he has also just revalved and serviced my Exige Nitrons and again his advice to respring to his spec turned the car into a much quicker- easier car to push hard in, just had the flat floor set up done yesterday by a very well respected Geo man and he said Simon is usually spot on with his advice and equipment.
The traction oil is what the Rotrex supercharger uses to transmit the drive from the input side of the charger to the compressor wheel, the Rotrex is a small compact unit but high temps in the drive unit/oil is what kills them, like most everything really!!! it's all about management. 
k20erham said:
The traction oil is what the Rotrex supercharger uses to transmit the drive from the input side of the charger to the compressor wheel, the Rotrex is a small compact unit but high temps in the drive unit/oil is what kills them, like most everything really!!! it's all about management.
thanks for the info. Could the oil be pumped via a 5/10 row oil cooler to help with temps a la diffs on high powered race cars?fergus said:
Regarding reliability, what sort of failures have you experienced?
ECU - caused a phantom misfire and had to be replaced.Immobiliser failed and refused to disarm.
Wheel speed sensor - stupidly stupidly wired so if it fails (not uncommon) the whole car loses power, rather than the speedo just crapping out - left me stranded. Stupid, stupid wiring plan.
Oil pressure sender - originally bolted to the block, vibrations destroy it (not uncommon) and there is no backup oil pressure warning light, so when it happened I couldn't risk driving as I didn't know if it was a sender failure or if I genuinely had no pressure. I now have a nice new sender on a remote mount, and have installed a backup pressure warning switch (which will give me a nice red light in line of sight in the event pressure is lost - essential on any track car IMO as it could save the engine).
Throttle position sensor - they use a penny + giles unit which also failed on me on my previous 7 - IMO they are soft as s
te and not fit for purpose.Aside from the ECU, these are very common faults on 7s.
Olivera said:
GreigM said:
...and get the rear end checked to see if the de-dion is square and if not (very common) then get it shimmed to correct the toe.
If true, that is really quite laughable that Caterham cannot get it correct at the factory (never mind the other items).Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff