Handling advice
Discussion
I need some advice please. I miss my Westfield XI very much, it certainly wasn't the fastest car I've had, with a 100bhp A Series, however, it was the most fun to drive. The reason I (and Eva magazine) loved it so much was the handling. It had skinny little 145 CR322 tires that had minimal levels of grip, so throwing it into a corner was superb fun as the front would go where I wanted and I could steer the rear on the throttle. Go in a bit harder and the car would old school 4 wheel drift round, all at not particularly scary speeds.
If I wanted to buy a Caterham that would give me the same driving experience, not be the fastest car on the road with super sticky tyres that grip and grip right up to the point they don't at all, then what would you recommend I look at. I imagine that trying to get the rear out on a test drive is somewhat frowned at so I can't try them on the road! The new 160 ticks many of the boxes on paper but I'm not sure that the even lower power than the Westfield would keep me happy for long.
Over to you.
If I wanted to buy a Caterham that would give me the same driving experience, not be the fastest car on the road with super sticky tyres that grip and grip right up to the point they don't at all, then what would you recommend I look at. I imagine that trying to get the rear out on a test drive is somewhat frowned at so I can't try them on the road! The new 160 ticks many of the boxes on paper but I'm not sure that the even lower power than the Westfield would keep me happy for long.
Over to you.
I'd imagine any Caterham can be set up to do what you want with a combination of wheels / tyres and expert suspension set-up. The Caterhams on the Caterham drift experience are hard to keep in a straight line in 1st & 2nd :-) but I'm sure can also stick like glue if needed.
As above, I'd go with something no more than 140 bhp top end....that can then be set-up to do what you want so needs suitable adjustable suspension elements.
As above, I'd go with something no more than 140 bhp top end....that can then be set-up to do what you want so needs suitable adjustable suspension elements.
The Suzuki engine in the 160 and the new Seven Sprint can be tuned quite a long way, but surely the answer is another Westfield Eleven - it's be a much better investment, at the sort of prices they're fetching these days, and people have successfully fitted Lotus Twin Cams, Rover K-series and others, if you want more power (albeit you need to dry sump if you want to avoid the bonnet bulge).
Caterhams have glacial depreciation.
Westfields don't.
I'd suggest to answer the actual question posed by the OP, that a 1.8vvc engined variant - IE close to R300 spec with a LSD is the way to go and when you get need to move it on for whatever reason then it will only have troubled you for running costs basically.
Westfields don't.
I'd suggest to answer the actual question posed by the OP, that a 1.8vvc engined variant - IE close to R300 spec with a LSD is the way to go and when you get need to move it on for whatever reason then it will only have troubled you for running costs basically.
having driven a fair few variant I generally find Caterham have setup all their cars to have these characteristics regardless of their bhp. If you look through the spec sheets you'ss see they have given the 160 a 155 tyre, 270-420 a 185 tyre and the 620 a 215 tyre. Meaning the power to rubber ratio is kept fairly consistent. Other than that tyre choice makes a huge difference as does suspension setup and tyre pressure. Try pumping your tyres up past 30psi and you will see what i mean;-)
I have a Roadsport 125 Sigma (with lsd) and run it on 185x60x14 Uniroyal Rain Expert tyres.
I have found the grip to power balance is good fun, and there is enough power for rapid overtaking up to 90mph.
The tyres over heat a bit on a dry track day even with me driving, but they are cheap and have much better wet/cold grip than the original Avons ad feel more progressive too.
I have also run the car on Yokohama a021r tyres and it had a lot more grip, but was less fun.
Duncan
I have found the grip to power balance is good fun, and there is enough power for rapid overtaking up to 90mph.
The tyres over heat a bit on a dry track day even with me driving, but they are cheap and have much better wet/cold grip than the original Avons ad feel more progressive too.
I have also run the car on Yokohama a021r tyres and it had a lot more grip, but was less fun.
Duncan
Equus said:
justleanitupabit said:
Caterhams have glacial depreciation.
Westfields don't.
I'd suggest you do a bit of research: the Westfield Elevens usually go for considerably more than they cost their owners to build, and don't depreciate at all.Westfields don't.
justleanitupabit said:
Equus said:
justleanitupabit said:
Caterhams have glacial depreciation.
Westfields don't.
I'd suggest you do a bit of research: the Westfield Elevens usually go for considerably more than they cost their owners to build, and don't depreciate at all.Westfields don't.
I may try to go down in tyres sizes once I join the fold.
I thought about dropping to 165s like the Lotus 7 series 3 as I used to have an Elan Sprint which ran 155x80x13 and never lacked grip. However, the standard tyres look a bit lost in the rear arches and narrower ones would look very odd. You can't use 160 arches as the DeDion rear track is too wide.
downsman said:
I thought about dropping to 165s like the Lotus 7 series 3 as I used to have an Elan Sprint which ran 155x80x13 and never lacked grip. However, the standard tyres look a bit lost in the rear arches and narrower ones would look very odd. You can't use 160 arches as the DeDion rear track is too wide.
Have to agree - with most wheel/tyre combinations the rear arches look too big and I can't understand why Caterham don't offer some smaller options, both of arches and wheels. 185 section tyres are pretty massive on a car weighing (say) 550kg - how many (any) cars of 1100kg have twice (370) section tyres.How much wider are the Caterham rear arches over the original Lotus? The recent batch of 60 Seven Sprints with the retro styling sold out almost straight away IIRC so Caterham must be aware that the look/feel is in demand.
Having experienced the feel of dancing a lightweight, narrow tyred car on the throttle it is very addictive and cheap too. My tyres were about £30 each all round and lasted two or 3 track days, so unlike the usual fat sticky tyres that cost load and last 1 track day. I may well have been the slowest car there, but my grin was the biggest and my wallet didn't take as much battering. This moderns obsession for huge BHP and tyres that are all stick or twist may make you quicker but....
I'm pleased to hear that the Sigma engined cars seem to offer good balance, I think that they could be the sweet spot. Perhaps I could try leaving the over wide tyres on the car but go hard on the compound to reduce the effect.
Having experienced the feel of dancing a lightweight, narrow tyred car on the throttle it is very addictive and cheap too. My tyres were about £30 each all round and lasted two or 3 track days, so unlike the usual fat sticky tyres that cost load and last 1 track day. I may well have been the slowest car there, but my grin was the biggest and my wallet didn't take as much battering. This moderns obsession for huge BHP and tyres that are all stick or twist may make you quicker but....
I'm pleased to hear that the Sigma engined cars seem to offer good balance, I think that they could be the sweet spot. Perhaps I could try leaving the over wide tyres on the car but go hard on the compound to reduce the effect.
I have a 150 bhp sigma and it runs the standard 185 Avon ZZS tyres. Although it is brilliant to drive both on road and track, I do think it is over tyre'd if fun handling is your priority. I do get it sideways every time I drive it, but the moments are brief and you have to be fully committed. Pumping up the rear tyres and setting the ARB to its stiffest setting help a lot, but I find the ride becomes very harsh with the overinflated tyres. I will say though that any slides you do tease out of it are very precisely and intuitively controllable. In the wet, oversteer is pretty much on demand in any gear, but thats obvious really.
The solution is more mid-range torque or less grippy tyres. I have considered the engine upgrade route, but concluded that for road use it may just add to the frustration and is only going to result in even higher cornering speeds. So for me I'm currently looking at options to reduce grip. The problem is the complete lack of options in the 13" size.
I'm very keen to try a 160. Everything I have heard says they deliver the driving experience I want. The live-axle, narrow track and skinny tyres giving them the throttle adjustability of a much more powerful car with an LSD. Just like you though, I think I'd find the power lacking.
The solution is more mid-range torque or less grippy tyres. I have considered the engine upgrade route, but concluded that for road use it may just add to the frustration and is only going to result in even higher cornering speeds. So for me I'm currently looking at options to reduce grip. The problem is the complete lack of options in the 13" size.
I'm very keen to try a 160. Everything I have heard says they deliver the driving experience I want. The live-axle, narrow track and skinny tyres giving them the throttle adjustability of a much more powerful car with an LSD. Just like you though, I think I'd find the power lacking.
Edited by mharris on Thursday 22 September 10:32
mharris said:
So for me I'm currently looking at options to reduce grip. The problem is the complete lack of options in the 13" size.
I've run my 125 Sigma on track using Yoko A539s, 185/60/R13 at about 18psi cold and they provide a very amusing slip/grip ratio 
cost about £50 a corner.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff