Does this Caterham look good to you...

[nogginthenog]

I have never owned a Caterham, but am considering it - particularly after a few laps of Silverstone on one recently with the 'Caterham Experience'.

What can the PH collective tell me about this car :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112209361244?_trksid=p20...

should I be concerned that it is a Q-Plate? And why doesn't it's MOT history appear on the DVLA website when I enter the reg No & 'Caterham' as the manufacturer?

Who is is best to approach for insurance quotes ( I'm the wrong side of 50 - or the right side as far as insurance is concerned! ) ?

Thanks, in advance, Noggin.

[nogginthenog]

correction - it does come up on the DVLA site - I must have had fat fingers the 1st time I tried.

[Dave J]

it does look smart in the pics. I would suggest you inspect the chassis for corrosion and mechanical condition before bidding if possible .

[bcr5784]

nogginthenog said:

I have never owned a Caterham, but am considering it - particularly after a few laps of Silverstone on one recently with the 'Caterham Experience'.

What can the PH collective tell me about this car :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112209361244?_trksid=p20...

should I be concerned that it is a Q-Plate? And why doesn't it's MOT history appear on the DVLA website when I enter the reg No & 'Caterham' as the manufacturer?

Who is is best to approach for insurance quotes ( I'm the wrong side of 50 - or the right side as far as insurance is concerned! ) ?

Thanks, in advance, Noggin.

I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about the Q plate, many Caterhams of that era (including my Academy car about that time) had kits that were all new bits EXCEPT that they used a rebuilt Ford Gearbox - and hence had to be registered as Q plate. The gearbox is worth asking about - especially the ratios. The more common 5 speed T9 Ford gearbox had wide ratios (especially 1st) and something with closer ratios would be a plus. However you will lose a cruising ratio which if you use the car for holidays or weekends away (some do!) might be a negative.

The flared wings look nice but generate (even more) lift and drag than the (now) almost universal cycle wings. Cycle wings can be substituted - but you would need to modify the lock stops or the wings will hit the bodywork.

An unpainted car does require more TLC than a painted one, especially if it's all weather car.

Insurance is very cheap from the usual price comparison sites - but you might need to go to a specialist if want track day cover as well.

Not sure about the old handbrake underneath the passenger side dash being better. Good for fondling your passengers knee perhaps... That said the more conventionally placed one isn't ideally placed either (too far back and badly placed for fondling....etc)

All that said I'd be tempted to give it a look if it's not too far, but Caterhams are very personal choices, so I'd view a few before you jump.

[tight fart]

Bit odd being a Q plate if Caterham built it as a demonstrator?
Never heard of that before and why would they.

[Stridey]

I pointed out that car to a chum, but it's a bit early for him to dive in, we concluded it shows well priced cars do seem to appear eventually.

Q plate, personally I didn't want one on my Crossflow, so you will restrict market on resale. However I think this is reflected well in the price. They don't seem to lose their value any more than non Q, so long as you buy well in the first place.

Clam wings.... Mine originally had these and I d be happy to drive/own one with them, however I really wanted cycle wings. Easy to fit, but will leave 5 rivet holes in each side, mine were replaced during a respray so not noticeable at all, headlamp brackets were modded, not replaced .
It's got the older style doors with no elbow bulge. Minor, minor point.

As for handbrake... I was worried about this as my regular drive involves a set of lights on a steep hill. Tbh I find it no problem at all, I can either balance the clutch or keep a foot on a brake to hold it. The transmission tunnel becomes a lovely arm rest, no handle in the way. You will always forget to release the brake before strapping yourself in... It's just out of reach. Or rather you will forget often, if your like me.

Mines four speed too. Rarely do I reach for an imaginary 5th... Might be nice to have a cruising 5th for motorways, but the simplicity of 4 appeals. I don't do track days,

Crossflow and Webers. Lovely. Simple. Brilliant noise. Mine ran hot in traffic, but putting a bigger fan, checking thermostat was a low temp one and recently putting a tx4 taxi bypass valve on the heater circuit has helped keep the running temp lower, and the cabin cooler in summer. Mine was fettled to 150 bhp so had a few bits on the engine that may have made it run hotter than normal. I really feel the Crossflow is an absolute classic.

Tips if you buy? Carry a spare throttle cable. Drive it, they need to have use.

You may need to budget on new tyres. If they are older (5 years or so) they may still have tread but no life... I was advised to replace mine as they will never wear out. Mine was on Michelins, now on Yokahamas.

Edited by Stridey on Sunday 27th November 19:56

Edited by Stridey on Sunday 27th November 20:03

Edited by Stridey on Sunday 27th November 20:13

[bcr5784]

tight fart said:

Bit odd being a Q plate if Caterham built it as a demonstrator?
Never heard of that before and why would they.

Not sure, but I notice that some 4 speed Super Sprints of that era are Q plates and have live axles (most SuperSprints have Dedion rear suspension and 5 speeds). I notice he doesn't mention whether it's deDion or live axle. I wouldn't dismiss a car because it has a live axle - they feel remarkably sophisticated (if such a word is ever appropriate with a Caterham) - you really wouldn't believe how well controlled the huge mass of Marina (probably) axle feels.

[nogginthenog]

Dave J said:

it does look smart in the pics. I would suggest you inspect the chassis for corrosion and mechanical condition before bidding if possible .

Where should I be looking for corrosion on the chassis?

[nogginthenog]

Thanks for all your replies.

I'm thinking I might be better spending a bit more and getting one with a more modern engine / fuel injection etc.

[CanAm]

bcr5784 said:

I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about the Q plate, many Caterhams of that era (including my Academy car about that time) had kits that were all new bits EXCEPT that they used a rebuilt Ford Gearbox - and hence had to be registered as Q plate. The gearbox is worth asking about - especially the ratios. The more common 5 speed T9 Ford gearbox had wide ratios (especially 1st) and something with closer ratios would be a plus. However you will lose a cruising ratio which if you use the car for holidays or weekends away (some do!) might be a negative.

Most of the Caterhams of that era had rebuilt Ford Type 9 gearboxes.You were allowed ONE major item rebuilt as new without getting a Q plate.

[bcr5784]

CanAm said:

ost of the Caterhams of that era had rebuilt Ford Type 9 gearboxes.You were allowed ONE major item rebuilt as new without getting a Q plate.

I didn't know that - I was told that the only non-new item on my car was the gearbox, but I could believe the back axle might have been a rebuild too. Marinas were only built until 1980 so new back axles would be thin on the ground 15 years later.

[HustleRussell]

bcr5784 said:

CanAm said:

ost of the Caterhams of that era had rebuilt Ford Type 9 gearboxes.You were allowed ONE major item rebuilt as new without getting a Q plate.

I didn't know that - I was told that the only non-new item on my car was the gearbox, but I could believe the back axle might have been a rebuild too. Marinas were only built until 1980 so new back axles would be thin on the ground 15 years later.

It's a Morris Ital axle so they were produced slightly later than that. Whether they were supplied new or rebuilt to Caterham I don't know. I do know that there are a lot of 5-speed Ital axled cars registered on non-'Q' plates, and I always thought that the manufacturers could actually use two refurbished major parts.

[bcr5784]

This what the DVLA says about Q plates

Cars and light vans must use:

the original unaltered chassis or unaltered monocoque
bodyshell (that is, the body and chassis as one unit);
or

a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same
specification as the original. A receipt from the dealer
or manufacturer is required.
AND
the vehicle must have two other major components
– as listed below – from the original vehicle.

Suspension (front and back)

Axles (both)

Transmission

Steering assembly

Engine
If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is
used, the vehicle must have Individual Vehicle Approval
(IVA) or Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) (see section 11). A
‘Q’ registration number will then be issued (see section 7).


So I think the regs must have changed - by that definition my car needn't have been Q plated - it had a new engine, steering assembly and suspension front and rear.

[CanAm]

Those are the regs for modified vehicles where an age related plate would be issued based on the age of the donor vehicle. What I was talking about were the regs for a brand new vehicle where all new parts are used (with one exception) to allow a vehicle to be registered as new

[scubadude]

nogginthenog said:

I have never owned a Caterham, but am considering it

Do it.

nogginthenog said:

should I be concerned that it is a Q-Plate? And why doesn't it's MOT history appear on the DVLA website when I enter the reg No & 'Caterham' as the manufacturer?

No, if the stated history is correct it matters not- unless you are a snob :-) (on the other hand- its not a Westfield so...)

[quote=nogginthenogWho is is best to approach for insurance quotes ( I'm the wrong side of 50 - or the right side as far as insurance is concerned! ) ?

Lloyd & White, REIS, Adrian Flux etc- specialists, don't call Admiral and ask to add it to a Multi-car :-)



I have a '95 Supersprint- it has Clams (the wings) they are just better. Ignore the naysayers and lift/drag nonsense, I've had no issues Warp10+ (private track of course...) Mine started life as a crossflow so has a healthy self-applied anti-rust oil coating to the bottom of the chassis ;-) although it now has a modern Zetec engine (due to a previous owners track day antics) it still has carbs- Carbs Rule. They are smelly and noisy, on a 7 this is good, fun and characterful. This one also has the (IMVHO) nice adjustable seats, not leather so don't get hot in the sun and give your 2nd degree burns after a pub lunch.


All of the above (and the Q plate) has dragged the price of what looks like a nice car down, which is to your advantage, you can spend more of fuel and have change for tax and insurance (which will be cheap)

At the very least you should bag a test drive for "comparison purposes" ;-)

[scubadude]

nogginthenog said:

Where should I be looking for corrosion on the chassis?

The chassis (steel) has an aluminium skin riveted directly to the steel with hundreds of rivets, anywhere the two metals touch has the potential to corrode through a bimetallic reaction. Obviously the steel itself can just rust anywhere else :-)

The design of the skin leaves a number of "traps" around the car for water or debris to sit against the chassis, all of these places can then rust or corrode.

Common places to look are-
Along the bottom of the side panels, particularly in the infamous trap between the footwell and the skin.
Just below where the windscreen attaches each side where the bodywork that covers the dashboard bolts down to the chassis.
Everywhere around the rear axle and "basket" that holds the fuel tank and boot.
Under the front there is a "spider" of chassis tubes which people use to jack the car and this often rusts.

On the plus side, the original chassis manufacturer can completely reskin an old car like new if the chassis is in good condition and since its essentially a kit car you can, if all else fails, swap the entire chassis out "relatively" painlessly (compared to a normal car)

Once you get an upclose look (take a torch and mirror) you'll immediately see how the construction influences the possible deterioration the cars can suffer.

[nogginthenog]

scubadude said:

The chassis (steel) has an aluminium skin riveted directly to the steel with hundreds of rivets, anywhere the two metals touch has the potential to corrode through a bimetallic reaction. Obviously the steel itself can just rust anywhere else :-)

The design of the skin leaves a number of "traps" around the car for water or debris to sit against the chassis, all of these places can then rust or corrode.

Common places to look are-
Along the bottom of the side panels, particularly in the infamous trap between the footwell and the skin.
Just below where the windscreen attaches each side where the bodywork that covers the dashboard bolts down to the chassis.
Everywhere around the rear axle and "basket" that holds the fuel tank and boot.
Under the front there is a "spider" of chassis tubes which people use to jack the car and this often rusts.

On the plus side, the original chassis manufacturer can completely reskin an old car like new if the chassis is in good condition and since its essentially a kit car you can, if all else fails, swap the entire chassis out "relatively" painlessly (compared to a normal car)

Once you get an upclose look (take a torch and mirror) you'll immediately see how the construction influences the possible deterioration the cars can suffer.

Thanks for this - all very good advice. Especially 'do it' , but I keep finding reasons not to. I might go & have a gander. Cheers Noggin.