EVO Caterham 420R engine going pop. Any details yet?

[baypond]

Hi
Has anyone seen any more details on what happened to the EVO 420R which blew it's engine. They announced in August that Caterham were investigating, but I haven't seen anything since. They now have a Supersport in their long term fleet.
It seems that these engines need a bit of care and understanding to survive repeated track days.
Is it just the higher BHP cars that suffer?
thanks

[nigelpugh7]

baypond said:

Hi
Has anyone seen any more details on what happened to the EVO 420R which blew it's engine. They announced in August that Caterham were investigating, but I haven't seen anything since. They now have a Supersport in their long term fleet.
It seems that these engines need a bit of care and understanding to survive repeated track days.
Is it just the higher BHP cars that suffer?
thanks

Engine rebuilt and now for sale at Caterham south.

http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1916-420r-220...

[mike150]

I would like to hear more on this, not that it matters, I've just bought a new one!

I never thought a Duratec with cams a dry sump and an 8000rpm rev limit would ever blow! A 263bhp one with an 8500 limit maybe.

[DCL]

I don't think there is any particular issue with Duratec at these sort of powers. But like any engine, they will fail from time to time when things go wrong, either through abuse, poor maintenance, or just bad luck. What may be different with the Duratec is it's ability to absorb and carry damage without obvious symptoms for relatively long periods. That means failures may not be attributed to any particular event and may happen unexpectedly.

[nigelpugh7]

My previous R500 2011 duratec with dry sump and 265bhp gave years of trouble free service, with no issues with oil pressure or anything else whatsoever.

I think that these duratec engines are built to a very high quality, but of course any small issue could cause such a problem as a loss of drive to the oil pump for the dry sump system, but I think it's rare

Of course the previous k series r500 engine was know for being " highly strung" which required regular rebuilds,,but the duratec does not need such regular rebuilds it seems.

Some of the engines did have an issue with valve springs, which were part of a recall by CC, but I doubt this effects any of the new engines in the 420R models.

Mick Atree is the go to man and font of all knowledge for duratec engines, I'm sure he will be along to commment on the spec of the engines fitted to the 420R models.

[baypond]

Thanks - I wonder if it is a new or rebuilt engine. seems a lot of money to ask if its just an engine rebuild (rather than a new unit) on a car that will have had only hard miles.
Mike, I am also looking at buying a 420R later in the year, so would rather buy with eyes wide open in regards to aspects on how to treat the engine.

[coppice]

Hopefully I'm not tempting fate but 47,000 miles in my 2007 R400 D so far, last 20k with RBTBs. Not a beat missed that wasn't either its daft owner failing properly to secure battery connection or a leaking fuel tank -when all beats were missed very quickly indeed...

[Dave J]

I believe it was a wet sump, probably let the oil level drop. It's pretty critical to keep the oil at the correct level in a wet sump duratec .
if looked after the wet sump is ok on slicks.

[nigelpugh7]

All of the new 420R models come as standard with a dry sump system.

The EVO 420r we are talking about here was also well documented in the magazine as being a dry sump engined car.

[bcr5784]

looks expensive - very close to new list price.

[nigelpugh7]

Not really, with the spec that car has and the engine upgrade with throttle bodies and all the carbon is close to £46k!

I looked at buying one, but the price is getting close to the base price of a new 620R, neither of which I can afford!

[mike150]

The throttle bodies are £2700 and the 6 speed box is £2500...........2 options I would have liked but seriously!?!!?

[bcr5784]

nigelpugh7 said:

Not really, with the spec that car has and the engine upgrade with throttle bodies and all the carbon is close to £46k!

I looked at buying one, but the price is getting close to the base price of a new 620R, neither of which I can afford!

Looked at another way I could build a new car to that spec for the same money - I know what I would do. But, like you, that's more than I would want to pay for a Caterham - and I wouldn't have gone for that spec anyway.

[baypond]

nigelpugh7 said:

Not really, with the spec that car has and the engine upgrade

Degrade or upgrade? Im being facetious but £3k off new, for a car with a rebuilt engine which EVO seem to have abandoned, and went pop in such a big way that it shook the whole car and dumped a load of oil through the resulting hole, is not one I would be running for. I'm not mechanically minded, so maybe my concerns are due to a lack of understanding, but I wouldnt want any part of that engine in my car without fully understanding why it failed. As people on this forum have stated, sometimes its not easy to see where the failure started.

[PaulKemp]

I don't know what spec the engines are but suspect it's a simple cam upgrade with throttle bodies
It's known that the Duratec is marginal over 200bhp to 220bhp 8500rpm. The rods are the main problem although the pistons have a similar limit.
In a light car it's less stressed but that close to the perceived limit it could be as simple as missed gear engine over speed event.
IMHO

[shrink1061]

I've driven a friends 420R on three track days now, and that car has seen a total of 4 track days since its purchase last August. Its been driven hard continuously for hours on end around some fairly aggressive tracks from an engine power perspective. It continues to operate exactly as it did when it was bought (aside from some cooling issues caused by a Friday afternoon wiring job at Caterham).

Not sure the 420R engine itself is inherently problematic. Just an unlucky case.

[downsman]

I wouldn't mind betting the problem was due to the car having several drivers. A lot of high revs will cause the engine to use oil. If you pay the bills, you keep checking the level every session. Drivers of other peoples cars don't tend to be so conscientious, add in several different drivers on one track day and it's easy to image the levedl dropping low, and Caterham don't fit a nice bright oil light.........the first thing I fitted to my car.

[shrink1061]

My mates 420R hasn't had its oil level checked and on every track day it had two drivers. It didn't get downtime

Still good as new though

[downsman]

I would suggest he/she starts checking it then!

[mic]

shrink1061 said:

My mates 420R hasn't had its oil level checked and on every track day it had two drivers. It didn't get downtime

Still good as new though

Be nice to know whose car that is.......one not to buy!