Aircon in a Seven; from a commercial perspective, why not?
Discussion
GetCarter said:
Trabi601 said:
I think the benefit of having a blast of ice-cold air blowing over you on a really hot summer's day is being hugely underrated!
Unfortunately it won't happen, as you need a proper sealed car for aircon to work. No seven ever made meets this requirement!My Boxster isn't quite the same as a 7, but I run the air-con with the roof down, as that cold blast makes a huge difference on scorching days.
Trabi601 said:
GetCarter said:
Trabi601 said:
I think the benefit of having a blast of ice-cold air blowing over you on a really hot summer's day is being hugely underrated!
Unfortunately it won't happen, as you need a proper sealed car for aircon to work. No seven ever made meets this requirement!My Boxster isn't quite the same as a 7, but I run the air-con with the roof down, as that cold blast makes a huge difference on scorching days.
I've had heaters in 3 of my sevens and the only bit that gets warm is the side of the calf muscle! I bet you any money it would be the legs only that got cold with aircon!
I should add that in a seven with the roof on you still get soaked when it's raining!
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 3rd February 17:48
chemistry said:
Arguably not, but that's my point; I wonder whether aircon might broaden their appeal beyond 'purists', thereby increasing sales. A good thing.
I realise that taking this argument to it's farcical logical conclusion, one could add more and more and more 'comforts' until a Seven became a Range Rover(!). Nonetheless, Sevens do increasingly feature some creature comforts (heated seats, etc.) and I personally think a/c has become viewed by many folks as a necessity these days. I realise Colin Chapman would be turning in his grave, but as a commercial proposition I reckon 'luxury' Sevens such as that Harrods one would enjoy better sales if a/c were an option.
I can't see any mechanical reason why rudimentary a/c couldn't be installed - many Morgans have it, for example, especially in the USA - and feel that it would increase sales amongst people looking for a slightly more civilised weekend toy that was more viable for hot weather motoring.
Alternatively, I could be completely wrong. It's happened before
I enquired about ac but never really got a response.I realise that taking this argument to it's farcical logical conclusion, one could add more and more and more 'comforts' until a Seven became a Range Rover(!). Nonetheless, Sevens do increasingly feature some creature comforts (heated seats, etc.) and I personally think a/c has become viewed by many folks as a necessity these days. I realise Colin Chapman would be turning in his grave, but as a commercial proposition I reckon 'luxury' Sevens such as that Harrods one would enjoy better sales if a/c were an option.
I can't see any mechanical reason why rudimentary a/c couldn't be installed - many Morgans have it, for example, especially in the USA - and feel that it would increase sales amongst people looking for a slightly more civilised weekend toy that was more viable for hot weather motoring.
Alternatively, I could be completely wrong. It's happened before
Living in Asia with an average of 30°, highs of 40° and humidity between 75-90% is no fun when the traffic is not moving, sometimes for an hour at a time, believe me.
I can't see where the problem of fitting ac arises when the car has a heater for cold weather for those that feel the cold, apart from the problems associated with fitting..
The obvious answer is that it won't make a blind bit of difference. And there cannot be any possible reason to be driving a 7 in traffic that does not move for an hour. You can see they don't offer is as an option cant you?
PhilAsia said:
I enquired about ac but never really got a response.
Living in Asia with an average of 30°, highs of 40° and humidity between 75-90% is no fun when the traffic is not moving, sometimes for an hour at a time, believe me.
I can't see where the problem of fitting ac arises when the car has a heater for cold weather for those that feel the cold, apart from the problems associated with fitting..
Living in Asia with an average of 30°, highs of 40° and humidity between 75-90% is no fun when the traffic is not moving, sometimes for an hour at a time, believe me.
I can't see where the problem of fitting ac arises when the car has a heater for cold weather for those that feel the cold, apart from the problems associated with fitting..
BertBert said:
FYI - traf·fic jam (noun) a line of road traffic at or near a standstill because of road construction, an accident, or heavy congestion.
and
hu mour (noun) a breath of fresh air 🤔😁
Some people have not experienced traffic, which is wonderful. However, for those that have, along with the temperatutes associated in this region will understand.
Even riding a motorcycle here is hugely uncomfortable, so querying why a 7 can have a heater and not an ac seems reasonable. Surely driving a 7 is better than not driving one?
PhilAsia said:
Well, unfortunately I don't have a mansion in the country, so driving a 7 would entail sitting in an inevitable traffic jam. Possibly for some degree of time: a 6 kilometer journey has been known to take 4 hours, but an hour is a regular occurrence.
FYI - traf·fic jam (noun) a line of road traffic at or near a standstill because of road construction, an accident, or heavy congestion.
and
hu mour (noun) a breath of fresh air ????
Some people have not experienced traffic, which is wonderful. However, for those that have, along with the temperatutes associated in this region will understand.
Even riding a motorcycle here is hugely uncomfortable, so querying why a 7 can have a heater and not an ac seems reasonable. Surely driving a 7 is better than not driving one?
A heater just blows hot air at you, heated by the car itself.FYI - traf·fic jam (noun) a line of road traffic at or near a standstill because of road construction, an accident, or heavy congestion.
and
hu mour (noun) a breath of fresh air ????
Some people have not experienced traffic, which is wonderful. However, for those that have, along with the temperatutes associated in this region will understand.
Even riding a motorcycle here is hugely uncomfortable, so querying why a 7 can have a heater and not an ac seems reasonable. Surely driving a 7 is better than not driving one?
AC requires a compressor and actively removes the moisture from the air and cools it (in simple terms).
The problem with that in a 7 is that it's to open and absolutely not air tight, that the AC would have to work overtime just to blow a small amount of cool air into your face.
Even the likes of a Lotus Elise is more air tight than a 7, and with the roof on, AC would be a benefit, but in a 7, with the roof on you can still see the outside through the seams!
Not to mention how much a 7 heats up with the roof on thanks to the heat from the engine bay and the transmission tunnel. It would be a loosing battle.
To make proper use of it you'd need to seriously redesign the car, think Donkervoort or similar. Honestly, if I lived somewhere really hot and AC was a must I'd be looking at an Elise/Exige and not a 7.
V7SLR said:
Hot air rises ... an aircon unit in a Caterham would probably be as equally successful as a heater.
My Fozzie is lovely with the windows open and the ac on. Well, when I say lovely, i mean more bearable.
Guess I'll have to move to the highlands where it's 5-10° cooler....oh, and wiggling roads!
Holy thread revival!
Having read the arguements on both sides, I agree that a/c in a Seven wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as it would in a tin top, but remain of the opinion that some potential buyers would still like the option of a/c, if only to provide cooling air into the footwell and via vents in the dash.
Since nobody would be forced to have it so, assuming that the compressor etc. could be made to fit, if I owned Caterham I'd certainly make it an option in the interests of broadening the Seven's appeal to these potential customers/markets.
Maybe I have no soul, but to be fair, the original question I posted did ask the question purely with the commercial perspective. If they could sell more cars by offering air con, I would if I were them.
Having read the arguements on both sides, I agree that a/c in a Seven wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as it would in a tin top, but remain of the opinion that some potential buyers would still like the option of a/c, if only to provide cooling air into the footwell and via vents in the dash.
Since nobody would be forced to have it so, assuming that the compressor etc. could be made to fit, if I owned Caterham I'd certainly make it an option in the interests of broadening the Seven's appeal to these potential customers/markets.
Maybe I have no soul, but to be fair, the original question I posted did ask the question purely with the commercial perspective. If they could sell more cars by offering air con, I would if I were them.
chemistry said:
Maybe I have no soul, but to be fair, the original question I posted did ask the question purely with the commercial perspective. If they could sell more cars by offering air con, I would if I were them.
Unfortunately the commercial perspective isn't as black and white as that. A couple of potential buyers want air-con? Great, develop it and sell more cars! If only the business world was that simple..An air-con option (or any option really) adds significant overhead costs.. There is the cost to develop and test the product, then the on-going increase in complexity of the factory build process, and the cost of sourcing and storing additional parts. Then the service technicians need to be sent on a training course so they are qualified and safe to deal with refrigerant gasses.. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
Caterham needs to offset all these one-off and ongoing overheads against any potential increase in sales.
Personally I think the market for air-con is pretty small. In terms of people who consider it a deal-breaker we might only be talking a sales increase of 3 or 4 cars a year.
There are many other product developments that Caterham could, and probably are focusing on to make it more popular in other markets. Air con probably falls a long way down that list of cost vs revenue.
mharris said:
Unfortunately the commercial perspective isn't as black and white as that. A couple of potential buyers want air-con? Great, develop it and sell more cars! If only the business world was that simple..
An air-con option (or any option really) adds significant overhead costs.. There is the cost to develop and test the product, then the on-going increase in complexity of the factory build process, and the cost of sourcing and storing additional parts. Then the service technicians need to be sent on a training course so they are qualified and safe to deal with refrigerant gasses.. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
Caterham needs to offset all these one-off and ongoing overheads against any potential increase in sales.
Personally I think the market for air-con is pretty small. In terms of people who consider it a deal-breaker we might only be talking a sales increase of 3 or 4 cars a year.
There are many other product developments that Caterham could, and probably are focusing on to make it more popular in other markets. Air con probably falls a long way down that list of cost vs revenue.
Very good. How many years and how many potential 7 buyers have you spoken to in Asia?An air-con option (or any option really) adds significant overhead costs.. There is the cost to develop and test the product, then the on-going increase in complexity of the factory build process, and the cost of sourcing and storing additional parts. Then the service technicians need to be sent on a training course so they are qualified and safe to deal with refrigerant gasses.. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
Caterham needs to offset all these one-off and ongoing overheads against any potential increase in sales.
Personally I think the market for air-con is pretty small. In terms of people who consider it a deal-breaker we might only be talking a sales increase of 3 or 4 cars a year.
There are many other product developments that Caterham could, and probably are focusing on to make it more popular in other markets. Air con probably falls a long way down that list of cost vs revenue.
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