Avon ZZR Definite Thread

Avon ZZR Definite Thread

Author
Discussion

mono fraud

Original Poster:

62 posts

111 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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The initial message was deleted from this topic on 16 February 2017 at 23:33

DCL

1,215 posts

178 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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I've run a couple of set and personally would not buy any more as I think there are better tyres available.

As a road tyre they are compromised in several respects: pattern is not suitable in the wet, the tread depth is for stability - it's about about 4.5 mm new (and this varies across the pattern). But what usually kills them is the limited heat cycles they seem to be able to go through. They, in fact, became dangerous before they were worn out for me.

Now, on the road, that might not matter so much as tyres are seldom heat cycled to the same degree, they wear well and I suspect there are ZZR fans (who have never experienced Avon rubber turn to plastic) who think they're wonderful.

In sort, the different ways different drivers use their tyres really make your question meaningless (with all due respect of course).


Edited by DCL on Thursday 16th February 23:53

nigelpugh7

5,996 posts

189 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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I think as always it depends on how you use them.

I have a set of both ZZS and ZZRs for my Caterham.

It's true the ZZRs are compromised as a road tyre, as DCL says the limited tread and lack of water displacement means they are never going to work in the road in the wet.

However the three sets I have had on my cars work well for what they were designed for, so track days and sprints and hillclimbs.

Having said that I have also use the ZZS on track too, and they actually perform very well indeed.

Not had any issues with either going hard though, I tend to wear mine out before they get that old anyway.

Amris

157 posts

167 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Also agree with Nigel, I run ZZR's and ZZS's. ZZR's on track (and driving to the track) and ZZS's for all road use. My issue with the ZZR's was that even with some enthusiastic driving on road you can never get them up to temperature. On track they are incredibly grippy, noticeably more than the S's and only marginally slower than full slicks. If i had a trailer I probably wouldn't use them at all though to be honest.

ZZS's are great for road though. Very happy with them

shrink1061

102 posts

90 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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i'm afraid i don't have any direct experience of the ZZR, I have however driven the ZZS in many conditions, and find them fantastic.

In classic UK weather they make an excellent road tyre (even in 1 degree snow / slush conditions) and are very capable on the track. No they're not as capable as a ZZS on the track I'm sure, but for most mortals they hang on in there with amazing tenacity. They are also long lasting.

in a 420R covering 2000+ miles including 5x track days, they are showing little wear and would expect them to do at least the same again.

For a car that does even a 60/40 split of Road / Track, I'd say the ZZS makes a better value proposition, as it's just more useful more of the time.

coppice

8,561 posts

143 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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My CR 500s on a R4000D are getting tired so I am looking around.Have used them exclusively over 50k miles since new . Had Yokos (32 and 48) on previous Seven - great when they were good (warm , dry) and dreadful when they were bad (cold, wet). These days it's nearly all road use- often long tours and sometimes in vile conditions. CR500s ok in heavy rain but still aquaplane terribly once half worn . Not wanting to lose much dry grip but how do people find ZZS in bad conditions , especially in comparison to CR500s? All other relevant experiences welcome .

nigelpugh7

5,996 posts

189 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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coppice said:
My CR 500s on a R4000D are getting tired so I am looking around.Have used them exclusively over 50k miles since new . Had Yokos (32 and 48) on previous Seven - great when they were good (warm , dry) and dreadful when they were bad (cold, wet). These days it's nearly all road use- often long tours and sometimes in vile conditions. CR500s ok in heavy rain but still aquaplane terribly once half worn . Not wanting to lose much dry grip but how do people find ZZS in bad conditions , especially in comparison to CR500s? All other relevant experiences welcome .
We have been caught out in torrential rain in my previous R500, both when we had the ZZRs fittted and the ZZS too.

The ZZRs are frankly scary in the wet, we were on the motorway heading to Dover for the ferry, with lots of standing water the car changed two lanes twice without any steering input, so realising 65 was too fast, we were forced to slow to 40mph to stay safe.

The ZZS couldn't be more diffent in the wet, we got caught coming back from the Tafia fish and chip run in April, in wind, rain sleet and snow.

The ZZS were perfect, and not once did we loose grip. I would recommend them to anyone as an alround great tyre.

shrink1061

102 posts

90 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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As said above, even in snowy conditions a 210bhp 7 with light flywheel and ultra stiff suspension the ZZS were excellent

They then proceeded to allow us to easily lap a Nissan GTR round blyton park. So they're not bad in the dry either!

Best all rounder imho

mike150

493 posts

199 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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DCL said:
I've run a couple of set and personally would not buy any more as I think there are better tyres available.

As a road tyre they are compromised in several respects: pattern is not suitable in the wet, the tread depth is for stability - it's about about 4.5 mm new (and this varies across the pattern). But what usually kills them is the limited heat cycles they seem to be able to go through. They, in fact, became dangerous before they were worn out for me.

Now, on the road, that might not matter so much as tyres are seldom heat cycled to the same degree, they wear well and I suspect there are ZZR fans (who have never experienced Avon rubber turn to plastic) who think they're wonderful.

In sort, the different ways different drivers use their tyres really make your question meaningless (with all due respect of course).


Edited by DCL on Thursday 16th February 23:53
I laughed at 'who have never experienced Avon rubber turn to plastic'. I had a well used set of CR500 and they really where useless on track compared to 888's. Very light tyre though which is good. I now have ZZS's on my car but have no idea what they are like yet, I hope better than than the CR500!

mono fraud

Original Poster:

62 posts

111 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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mike150 said:
I laughed at 'who have never experienced Avon rubber turn to plastic'.
Don't tyres get hard, "turn to plastic", only if they are not used within their expected life?

DCL

1,215 posts

178 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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mono fraud said:
Don't tyres get hard, "turn to plastic", only if they are not used within their expected life?
The chemical agents within the rubber that keeps it soft and flexible slowly leech out over time. The hotter you get them, the faster that process is. If you regularly cycle tyres to their maximum performance temperatures, you can loose performance very quickly, and I found the Avon bad in that respect.

rotorwings

208 posts

124 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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Quick note on my experience with ZZR's:

I bought a set at the start of 2016 and did one track day only on them with perhaps an additional 800 road miles through the rest of the year. Yesterday I took the car out for the first time this year and I can say that the tyres are definitely much harder than when I purchased them.

I know this is not a scientific test, but when the tyres were new I could stick my fingernails into them and it would leave a deep imprint that would stay a long time. Now, it feels more like I'm going to break a nail wink

Also, as others have said: they will never come up to an ideal temperature on the road. I remember being amazed after the track day at how much extra grip there really was once they were up to temp.

I'm glad I tried them, but next time I would definitely try something else considering my car is almost exclusively driven on the road.

shrink1061

102 posts

90 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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so many variables though, did you test them on a day of the same temperature, environmental temp could make the compound feel a lot harder.

Could just need a short run to scrub off the surface a little and warm them up.

I havent seen ZZS's exhibit the same issue.

subirg

717 posts

275 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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I've used zzr for a good few years. Several sets. Usage probably 60:40 track : road. Absolutely love them. Don't last long, but my god they are grippy. Comedy in the wet on track so mostly sideways. On road, I've driven them in torrential conditions without issue but limit speed to 60mph.

I have a spare set of wheels and intend to get a set of zzs for those for use in the wet and for pure road trips. That'll leave the zzrs for ultimate grip days. As for going hard - I notice that after they have been left to stand for a while usually in colder months, but after a good warming up they come back nicely.

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Sunday 21st May 2017
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I've just been running ZZR on my E30 M3 and am pretty happy with them so far. They've certainly performed pretty well in the recent sunny weather anyway. I'm wondering if the fact that the E30 is a bit heavier has helped though?

What alternatives would you suggest other than 888's?

mcerbm

111 posts

203 months

Thursday 8th June 2017
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I think I must be one of the Avon fans that david refers to in the early posts. I am a fan of the ZZS as a list 1b competition tyre. I have used ZZR's in the past and really enjoyed them and was quite disappointed when they fell into the list 1c tyres so I couldn't use them in Super laps scotland. I briefly tried a 2nd hand set of A24 compound ZZR's just before the rule change and they are perfect for the final 1 lap format, I wish I had tried a new set as I think they may have had a few more heat cycles than the previous owner let on.

But in general the ZZS is a very good all round tyre. Its even a good wet track tyre. very impressed.

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 9th June 2017
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Having put a few miles on mine, I am surprised at just how much heat they need putting into them before they start working properly. I'm not sure I would use them again.

wannabe-racer

139 posts

66 months

Monday 7th September 2020
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Old thread I know, but I have a set of ZZR's on my Atom 4. So far I have only used them on the road in dry conditions and I agree with every ones view here. They don't work that well on the road, if you push on the car ever so slightly, you can feel the car wash out or just blipping the throttle while driving along will light the rears up and you can feel the back end slide around, of course I have a ton of power but they don't inspire confidence on the road.

I will try these for the first time on track next week, so hopefully they will shine then. But I suspect I will just go for full slicks on track and ZZS for the road when I have worn these out. Or perhaps the Yoko AO52's - I hear they are really good both on road and track.

Amris

157 posts

167 months

Friday 11th September 2020
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Interesting thread, so thought i would share my experience.

I bought my caterham on ZZR's around 6 years ago and after hydroplaning between lanes on a busy dual carriageway at around 40mph in "standard" rain (terrifying) i decided it was a good idea to buy a second set of wheels for road use!

On road i now use ZZS's - a great all round tyre for both road and track in all weather. On road they hold their grip well in all conditions and although on track they are definitely slower i would argue they are almost more fun as the car moves around more and helps you become a better driver. If i only had one set of wheels this would definitely be what i would run.

I still run ZZR's on track, their grip at temperature is incredible for a road legal tyre. If i had a trailer i would choose slicks (as there is still a vast difference between them) but with the current limitation of having to drive to track they fit the bill well. IMHO though they are not good road tyres. I find you need between 1 and 2 fairly aggressive laps on track to get them up to temperature to make the most of them, and at lower temperatures they are fairly slippery. I don't have any issue with heat cycles on them either and have run a single set on multiple track days with no loss in performance.