K-Series powered 7 – won’t start
Discussion
During my last blat of last year the engine on my Caterham suddenly stopped, and I’ve not been able to get it running since. It turns over but, doesn’t even attempt to fire on any cylinders.
The vehicle is a 1999 EU2 K-series Supersport.
All 4 plugs have a spark, but I replaced the distributor cap and rotor arm as they didn’t look great.
The battery is always kept on a conditioner, and it cranks over fine but I did try a booster on the battery just in case, and it made no difference.
The fuel pump primes as usual when the ignition is turned on, and fuel comes out of the fuel pipe that connects to the fuel rail when the engine is cranked over - and after cranking there is a fuel smell.
I’ve had the MFRU apart and cleaned up the relay contacts (even though they looked fine with no sign of corrosion).
The cam belt looks fine and doesn’t appear to have jumped a tooth.
I’ve not replaced any of the sensors as I understand that it would still run with a dead sensor – just not very well. The crank position sensor did come up on a few forum searches – but surely if this was dead then I wouldn’t have a spark?!
I’ve checked all the wiring several times now and it seems ok.
The only other thing I can think of is that there is something wrong with the fuel injectors or injector loom, but I’m not sure how to check this. In the Haynes manual it says to take to a Rover garage to get it diagnosed – is there a DIY way to check this?
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know as I’m running out of things to check!
The vehicle is a 1999 EU2 K-series Supersport.
All 4 plugs have a spark, but I replaced the distributor cap and rotor arm as they didn’t look great.
The battery is always kept on a conditioner, and it cranks over fine but I did try a booster on the battery just in case, and it made no difference.
The fuel pump primes as usual when the ignition is turned on, and fuel comes out of the fuel pipe that connects to the fuel rail when the engine is cranked over - and after cranking there is a fuel smell.
I’ve had the MFRU apart and cleaned up the relay contacts (even though they looked fine with no sign of corrosion).
The cam belt looks fine and doesn’t appear to have jumped a tooth.
I’ve not replaced any of the sensors as I understand that it would still run with a dead sensor – just not very well. The crank position sensor did come up on a few forum searches – but surely if this was dead then I wouldn’t have a spark?!
I’ve checked all the wiring several times now and it seems ok.
The only other thing I can think of is that there is something wrong with the fuel injectors or injector loom, but I’m not sure how to check this. In the Haynes manual it says to take to a Rover garage to get it diagnosed – is there a DIY way to check this?
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know as I’m running out of things to check!
Can't offer any advice but best of luck.
My Crossflow (see thread) had similar issues and it turned out to be a combination of factors.
You seem to have covered all the obvious items. The big difference between a Crossflow and a K would be the electronic fuel injection system which the Crossflow doesn't have.
My Crossflow (see thread) had similar issues and it turned out to be a combination of factors.
You seem to have covered all the obvious items. The big difference between a Crossflow and a K would be the electronic fuel injection system which the Crossflow doesn't have.
battered said:
Do you have a Big Red Key battery isolator? If so bypass it and try again, they are notorious for giving trouble. Ask me how I know.
Thanks, but no isolator fitted.tin duck dave said:
You say it just stopped on a run, was that at speed or while idling. The cause of the stop is almost certainly the cause of the non start. Have you checked compression and timing?
I had just taken it out for a run and got a couple of miles down the road. I’m always very careful with warming up the engine, and keep the revs down until the oil is up to temperature. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a mechanical failure – it just died, like it had run out of fuel.
dave7 said:
I’ve not replaced any of the sensors as I understand that it would still run with a dead sensor – just not very well. The crank position sensor did come up on a few forum searches – but surely if this was dead then I wouldn’t have a spark?!
If the spark is controlled by a distributor then a failed crank sensor wouldn't necessarily stop a spark from happening. However, it would stop fuel being injected since as far as the ECU is concerned the engine is not running.MKnight702 said:
If the spark is controlled by a distributor then a failed crank sensor wouldn't necessarily stop a spark from happening. However, it would stop fuel being injected since as far as the ECU is concerned the engine is not running.
Thank you, that is very helpful - looks like it might be an idea to try another crank sensor then 
dave7 said:
MKnight702 said:
If the spark is controlled by a distributor then a failed crank sensor wouldn't necessarily stop a spark from happening. However, it would stop fuel being injected since as far as the ECU is concerned the engine is not running.
Thank you, that is very helpful - looks like it might be an idea to try another crank sensor then Dave
If the K series is like every other engine I've had a crank sensor fail on, the telltale is that the rev counter will cut instantly while the car is still rolling along - from bitter experience it's the first place my eyes flick on a hiccup.
Bit hard to check now it's stopped, but cranking might be fast enough to kick the rev counter? Also IME they generally fail intermittently - cut hot then will restart after 15 mins or so.
As already said I'd not expect a spark with a dead crank sensor; fuel would depend on the injection system (don't know the k-series). Spark timing would be the other question.
Bit hard to check now it's stopped, but cranking might be fast enough to kick the rev counter? Also IME they generally fail intermittently - cut hot then will restart after 15 mins or so.
As already said I'd not expect a spark with a dead crank sensor; fuel would depend on the injection system (don't know the k-series). Spark timing would be the other question.
DVandrews said:
The spark isn't controlled by the distributor as it is a simple cap and arm, all the coil control is done by the ECU which wont function without the crank sensor operating
Dave
Thanks Dave, back to square one then!Dave
upsidedownmark said:
Bit hard to check now it's stopped, but cranking might be fast enough to kick the rev counter?
Thanks Mark, yes the rev-counter is still working.I once had my emerald ECU fail. The earth pin for the relays wothin the Multi Function Unit (MFU) failed so I had no recognsed crankspeed. This gave the same symptoms you've got.
My control unit has an LED that indicates when it recognised a crank sognal. (goes from red to green if I remember correctly)
Could you have something similar?
My control unit has an LED that indicates when it recognised a crank sognal. (goes from red to green if I remember correctly)
Could you have something similar?
Thanks for all the suggestions so far...
At the weekend I removed the 5as (alarm) module and there was something rattling around inside. I took the lid off and found a small pcb had become detached from the main board. The immobiliser packed up years ago, but I wasn't too worried as I never leave the car anywhere apart from my garage. Anyway, I soldered it back on and I now have a working immobiliser - the car still won't start though!
I also took the lid off the ecu, and it looks fine inside - nothing burnt out and no sign of getting wet inside.
I've also checked inside the MFU again, and all looks good.
I disconnected the crank sensor just to test the theory that no crank sensor = no spark and it stopped sparking.
Anyone want to buy a Caterham non-runner?!
At the weekend I removed the 5as (alarm) module and there was something rattling around inside. I took the lid off and found a small pcb had become detached from the main board. The immobiliser packed up years ago, but I wasn't too worried as I never leave the car anywhere apart from my garage. Anyway, I soldered it back on and I now have a working immobiliser - the car still won't start though!
I also took the lid off the ecu, and it looks fine inside - nothing burnt out and no sign of getting wet inside.
I've also checked inside the MFU again, and all looks good.
I disconnected the crank sensor just to test the theory that no crank sensor = no spark and it stopped sparking.
Anyone want to buy a Caterham non-runner?!
You have replaced the HT leads and stuff... not that I am talking from my own shameful experience, but do the leads go to the correct plugs? - Yes, this won't help with the just dying mid run.
When was the last time you bought petrol? - water in the fuel has caused me problems in the past.
When was the last time you bought petrol? - water in the fuel has caused me problems in the past.
I've not changed the HT leads as I have a spark at each plug - and I checked all the leads go where they should.
Also checked the timing marks on the cams and crankshaft and all looks correctly aligned.
The fuel wouldn't have been that old when it stopped last year as I use the car quite often during the summer.
Also checked the timing marks on the cams and crankshaft and all looks correctly aligned.
The fuel wouldn't have been that old when it stopped last year as I use the car quite often during the summer.
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