CATERHAM V'S WESTFIELD
Discussion
Piers917 said:
Fergus - Is your 'Ring video 
on Youtube?
no. not at the moment. I'll have to dig out the SD card. on Youtube?Seriously though, most caterham's, even those on track seem to have been purchased with some sort of aspiration to a mythical club/lifestyle element, which is largely full of bores anyway (refer to this thread for evidence).
Imagine a pub full of them? I think the phrase, "up their own ar5e's" springs to mind. Most on Blatchat, (with the exception of a *few* individuals) do not even have a remote sense of how their car works, other than to take the advice of another internet expert and then follow the herd into buying the latest 'trick' part. Sad really. Same as scooby owners, but with a larger chip on their shoulders
Having had an unhappy Westfield experience, my feeling is to avoid Westfield at all costs and go for the Caterham, (despite never having driven a Caterham).
I found Westfield's sales team to be rather conservative with the truth when it came to describing details of their product, and when it came to answering complaints, they were merely ignored despite written evidense to prove their inconsistensy.
Buyer beware where Westfield are concerned!!! Go staight to Caterham instead-I wish I had.
I found Westfield's sales team to be rather conservative with the truth when it came to describing details of their product, and when it came to answering complaints, they were merely ignored despite written evidense to prove their inconsistensy.
Buyer beware where Westfield are concerned!!! Go staight to Caterham instead-I wish I had.
Murph7355 said:
Sam's happy with his Westfield. And equally happy that for him there's no difference between his Westfield and a Caterham.
Now, now, Murph... re-read just a little of what I've written on this thread - I've never said there's no difference between Caterham and Westfield, now have I? I've said all along that, as a general rule, Caterhams are better built and better suited to the track, Westfield are much better value and are better suited to road use. There are exceptions, of course... my particular Westfield was more expensive than any Caterham when new and is barely tolerable for road use, but will murder most Caterhams on the circuit.
Noger said:
As above, you are ignoring the export market. Which has accounted for just under 50% of Caterham production in previous years. Westfield is only recently getting into the International market.
Yet again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance, Noger. Or perhaps just your complete unwillingness to accept reality?Westfield have been successfully exporting to the states since the early days of the Westfield Eleven, and have substantial footholds in other markets, too (Australasia for example).
And I'm perfectly happy to admit that I don't know the pounds, shillings and pence of either company's balance sheets, but I had (until the recent takeovers) a pretty good grip on their production figures and general affluence.
Clearly, you must know more than me, if you are arguing the point so vehemently, though, so please do enlighten us all?
Piers917 said:
RobM77 - Where can i get hold of this Mark Hales Circuit Driver article please?
Thanks
Piers
Just a stab in the dark, but since he's mentioned it 4 times on this thread alone maybe Rob has a copy himself that he could scan for you? He probably knows it off by heart...Thanks
Piers
Personally, I think he's got a crush on Mark Hales.
fergus said:
Imagine a pub full of them? I think the phrase, "up their own ar5e's" springs to mind.
Or up each other's ar5es, perhaps? Noger did say he was an Old Queen a couple of pages back, unless I misread it...
That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?fergus said:
Most on Blatchat, (with the exception of a *few* individuals) do not even have a remote sense of how their car works, other than to take the advice of another internet expert and then follow the herd into buying the latest 'trick' part. Sad really. Same as scooby owners, but with a larger chip on their shoulders
They seem to take inordinate pride in how well their cars work 'out of the box'. They don't seem to realise that, basically, they're advertising to the rest of the world that they're complete numpties, technically.
Learn how it works and set it up yourselves, you halfwits! It's not difficult!!Sam_68 said:
Yet again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance, Noger. Or perhaps just your complete unwillingness to accept reality?
Westfield have been successfully exporting to the states since the early days of the Westfield Eleven, and have substantial footholds in other markets, too (Australasia for example).
The States + Australasia isn't "International" really is it though. That is like saying someone is an "International Traveller" when they go to Calais on a day trip. Westfield have been successfully exporting to the states since the early days of the Westfield Eleven, and have substantial footholds in other markets, too (Australasia for example).
Caterham Cars won the Queen's Award for Export. OVer half their production goes on export. I have been to Caterham Dealerships in both Tokyo and Kyoto.
The Japanese love them so much they even have a yellow JPE in a Manga cartoon
Sam_68 said:
And I'm perfectly happy to admit that I don't know the pounds, shillings and pence of either company's balance sheets,
Sam_68 said:
I think you’ll find that Westfield are doing really quite well in terms of both production and profitability
Now I will ignore the fact that Profit doesn't live on the Balance sheet, but you either know or don't know the profitabilty. So I will take it that yet again, you tell us something, and then don't know the facts to back it up 
Sam_68 said:
Clearly, you must know more than me, if you are arguing the point so vehemently, though, so please do enlighten us all?
Because now you start talking about how EXPENSIVE your Westfield is ! Isn't that exactly sort of behaviour that your chums hate about Caterham owners ? Us talking about how much money we spent. Ooops, hoisted by your own petard. Turns out we are not so different after all
Perhaps I should invent Noger's law, loosely based upon Godwin's
"As a Seven discussion grows longer, the probability of purchase price being used as justification approaches one."
Keep digging old chap, you may strike oil at some point
Sam_68 said:
Or up each other's ar5es, perhaps? Noger did say he was an Old Queen a couple of pages back, unless I misread it...
That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?
Ah, you always know an argument is won when all the opposition have to come back at you with is the possibilty that you might be gay. That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?Congratuations, you lose
Edited by Noger on Friday 11th April 19:45
Noger said:
The States + Australasia isn't "International" really is it though.
Erm... isn't it? Silly me. I bow to your greater wisdom - your grasp of geography is clearly better than mine. And here's me thinking they were both half way round the world from here. Damn that 747 I went to NZ on must have been slow. Have Caterham expanded into the aerospace market by any chance?
Noger said:
The Japanese love them so much they even have a yellow JPE in a Manga cartoon
Yes, the Japanese love Westfields too; I believe most of the FW400's ended up there. And Lotus Europas, for some reason.But I digress... I didn't realise you were expecting an exhaustive list of Westfield export markets.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 11th April 19:51
Noger said:
Sam_68 said:
Or up each other's ar5es, perhaps? Noger did say he was an Old Queen a couple of pages back, unless I misread it...
That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?
Ah, you always know an argument is won when all the opposition have to come back at you with is the possibilty that you might be gay. That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?Congratuations, you lose
Sorry... you've lost me. You did say you were a queen, I'm sure?Nothing wrong with being gay... you can't help it and it's perfectly legal these days!
Sam_68 said:
Piers917 said:
RobM77 - Where can i get hold of this Mark Hales Circuit Driver article please?
Thanks
Piers
Just a stab in the dark, but since he's mentioned it 4 times on this thread alone maybe Rob has a copy himself that he could scan for you? He probably knows it off by heart...Thanks
Piers
Personally, I think he's got a crush on Mark Hales.
fergus said:
Imagine a pub full of them? I think the phrase, "up their own ar5e's" springs to mind.
Or up each other's ar5es, perhaps? Noger did say he was an Old Queen a couple of pages back, unless I misread it... That would tie in with Rob's Mark Hales fixation, too, wouldn't it?fergus said:
Most on Blatchat, (with the exception of a *few* individuals) do not even have a remote sense of how their car works, other than to take the advice of another internet expert and then follow the herd into buying the latest 'trick' part. Sad really. Same as scooby owners, but with a larger chip on their shoulders
They seem to take inordinate pride in how well their cars work 'out of the box'. They don't seem to realise that, basically, they're advertising to the rest of the world that they're complete numpties, technically. Learn how it works and set it up yourselves, you halfwits! It's not difficult!!Piers917 said:
Sam_68 - By all accounts Mark Hales is a pretty good pedaller.
I'm sure he is, and I'd agree with Mr Irvine about the SEight - the RV8 engine doesn't suit Seven type cars and, yes, the SEight is a lairy old beast. I don't like it much myself.Stirling Moss is on the record as not much liking the Lotus Elan. Jim Clark was rather fond of his.
If we're namedropping race drivers, though, can I mention that Rob Gravett did the development driving on the FW with my personal Westfield.
Can I? Please??Sam_68 said:
...
If we're namedropping race drivers, though, can I mention that Rob Gravett did the development driving on the FW with my personal Westfield.Can I? Please??
Of course you can.If we're namedropping race drivers, though, can I mention that Rob Gravett did the development driving on the FW with my personal Westfield.
Can I? Please??Is that the FW400?
The long lived, ultra-reliable new take on a Caterham nee Lotus 7?
Come now fellas, let's at least try and keep it firmly in the rib poking arena rather than personal affronts.
btw, "best value" does not necessarily equal "cheapest". This is a common mistake to make in all manner of things. My mum reckons I was mad buying a Brabantia bin as the ones in Asda were cheaper. But my bin lid broke the other day (after 12yrs' use) and they are sending another out for free anon. With the Asda one I'd have had to chuck it and buy another. Which is the better value (I won't even bother asking which was cheaper)?
Murph7355 said:
Come now fellas, let's at least try and keep it firmly in the rib poking arena rather than personal affronts.
Yep. Just in case anyone is any doubt I'm just having fun here, with tongue firmly in cheek (in between the serious discussion, of course), and no personal affront is intended.Murph7355 said:
btw, "best value" does not necessarily equal "cheapest". This is a common mistake to make in all manner of things. My mum reckons I was mad buying a Brabantia bin as the ones in Asda were cheaper. But my bin lid broke the other day (after 12yrs' use) and they are sending another out for free anon. With the Asda one I'd have had to chuck it and buy another. Which is the better value (I won't even bother asking which was cheaper)?
True enough. As it happens, I can't recall having any serious reliability issues with any of the 'Seven' type cars I've owned. Even my 'ultra reliable' FW400 has proved ultra-reliable (seriously - where had you got the idea from that they aren't reliable and what are the alleged problems? As an owner of 1 of maybe 3 left in the country, I'd be interested to know?!).In fact, off the top of my head, the worst problem I can recall having was a split steering rack gaiter on my first Westfield (an SE).
If you want unreliable, buy an Elan (just make sure you buy a multimeter and a soldering iron at the same time!).
edited to add... oh, and a stripped sump plug thread on the Sylva. But that was a Ford part that is common to all Crossflow Sevens, so it probably doesn't count.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 11th April 21:08
Sam_68 said:
...where had you got the idea from that they aren't reliable ...
Anecodtal - one was at Snetterton once at the same time I was there in the 7. Think it was shake down testing (was a long time ago).Couldn't string more than a couple of laps together. Think they were having gearbox issues.
Interesting car. IIRC was another that never met its design targets? Bit like the Lotus 340R...
Sam_68 said:
Noger said:
Anyway, as I have proved, I am the Queen...
I do believe Noger has had a sense of humour failure. C'mon. Is this really what you want your Westfield chums to think of you ? That you get so far and lose it at the last minute with some cheap homophobic shots ? I was on shaky ground with the whole "international" thing anyway.
I don't care whether you think I am gay or not, what I care about is that you think that changes what I am saying.
So, again, your choice.
Murph7355 said:
Sam_68 said:
...where had you got the idea from that they aren't reliable ...
Anecodtal - one was at Snetterton once at the same time I was there in the 7. Think it was shake down testing (was a long time ago).Couldn't string more than a couple of laps together. Think they were having gearbox issues.
Interesting car. IIRC was another that never met its design targets? Bit like the Lotus 340R...
You are correct in thinking it didn't meet its design targets, though. They were aiming for 400 kilos. I understand that mine was the lightest (it's the only one with full carbon fibre bodywork as well as the carbon tub), and it weighs 420kg with fluids. There are a still few obvious areas to reduce weight, though - the seats are the most glaring, being quite heavy, padded fibreglass items with an adjustable steel subframe (adjustable seats were fitted because it was the press demonstrator, of course). I'm looking at fitting Reverie carbon seats with no subframes, which ought to save 5 or 6 kilos, straight off. Some of the bracketry is a bit 'blacksmith's job', too, it has to be said, so that will be refined over time.
Edited by Sam_68 on Friday 11th April 22:56
Hark! Above the induction roar and the scream of straight cut gears, I hear the noise of a dummy being spat!
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff