Some questions about buying and owning.
Discussion
I may hopefully be in a position soon to look into buying a Caterham (July onwards).
I have a few question to be cleared up before hand and to get a better grasp about Caterhams. I will be using this as an only car for a while.
I've read and herd of many people who have and still do do this. If times get hard, I'll buy a cheap barge to run about it, but for now I'm planning on it being my only car. - People who have run a seven as an only car for some time, please put your hands up, I'd love to hear your views and experiences on this.
1. Where are the best places to look into/ buy a Seven? I'd take a stab at PH, Blatchat and Autotrader. Any secrets I'm missing?
If I went for a private buy I'd get the best value for money, but is the lack of warranty a big issue on a Seven. Sounds a stupid question even as I'm writing it, but can most parts be replaces easily and fairly cheaply?
2. Budget is 8K rising to 12K max at a push (Insurance is an unknown at the current time and I may have to take a bit out of this if I can't afford it out of savings).
Not 100% on the upper end yet but there is a rough idea. Buy the looks of things I'm looking at early to late 90's. Engines ranging from 1.6 / 1.7 Crossflows and the odd 1.8.
Any engines/ eras to stay away from?
3A. I'm 21 with 3 points for speeding. Is this going to be a problem come insurance time?
The list of insurers I've noted down for getting quotes are;
Adrian Flux
MSM
Eggar Lawson/Competition Car Insurance
Haggerty
Footman James
If I'm missing some, please say!
3B. Out of interest - Kit car insurance. In what ways is this different to normal insurance? In a, 'every kit cars different' way?
4. I would be planning (hoping) on doing my own maintenance and fiddling where's necessary. I'm looking forward to learning about how the car works. Are most things possible to fix/ fit/ replace if you have the time?
Just a few questions. As I've said, owning a Caterham may never happen. My Mother would like to cast her eye over one before she donates some of the budget. Where's best to do this? Is it easiest to pop down to Caterham themselves and have a nose?
David
I have a few question to be cleared up before hand and to get a better grasp about Caterhams. I will be using this as an only car for a while.
I've read and herd of many people who have and still do do this. If times get hard, I'll buy a cheap barge to run about it, but for now I'm planning on it being my only car. - People who have run a seven as an only car for some time, please put your hands up, I'd love to hear your views and experiences on this.
1. Where are the best places to look into/ buy a Seven? I'd take a stab at PH, Blatchat and Autotrader. Any secrets I'm missing?
If I went for a private buy I'd get the best value for money, but is the lack of warranty a big issue on a Seven. Sounds a stupid question even as I'm writing it, but can most parts be replaces easily and fairly cheaply?
2. Budget is 8K rising to 12K max at a push (Insurance is an unknown at the current time and I may have to take a bit out of this if I can't afford it out of savings).
Not 100% on the upper end yet but there is a rough idea. Buy the looks of things I'm looking at early to late 90's. Engines ranging from 1.6 / 1.7 Crossflows and the odd 1.8.
Any engines/ eras to stay away from?
3A. I'm 21 with 3 points for speeding. Is this going to be a problem come insurance time?
The list of insurers I've noted down for getting quotes are;
Adrian Flux
MSM
Eggar Lawson/Competition Car Insurance
Haggerty
Footman James
If I'm missing some, please say!
3B. Out of interest - Kit car insurance. In what ways is this different to normal insurance? In a, 'every kit cars different' way?
4. I would be planning (hoping) on doing my own maintenance and fiddling where's necessary. I'm looking forward to learning about how the car works. Are most things possible to fix/ fit/ replace if you have the time?
Just a few questions. As I've said, owning a Caterham may never happen. My Mother would like to cast her eye over one before she donates some of the budget. Where's best to do this? Is it easiest to pop down to Caterham themselves and have a nose?
David
1) I wouldn't worry about warranty too much; they are about the simplest cars you can buy, so there's not much to go wrong mechanically or electrically and all parts to fix them are fairly easily available. The biggest worry is chassis condition, and that wouldn't be covered by warranty, anyway!
2) The only engine I'd suggest you definitely steer clear of is the Cosworth BDA (they are rare, but you do occasionally encounter them in your price range). They are a great engine, but not really for the novice; rebuild costs can be astronomical. I'd also be cautious about very highly tuned/powerful Crossflows - any Crossflow that genuinely produces more than 145bhp (and remember that there are Lies, Damn Lies and Crossflow Power Claims), is likely to be a bit of a pain in the ass for general road use.
3a) Dunno. It's a long time since I was 21.
If you can get competitive insurance for a Seven at that age, then I wouldn't expect the 3 points to be much of a problem - many insurers don't even weight premiums for speeding points these days, anyway.
3b) It's different because it's much cheaper. Like Classic insurance, they make the assumption (rightly or wrongly) that you are an enthusiast who will take particular care of your vehicle and who regards driving as a skill rather than a means of getting from A to B.
4) Yes! Most definitely! As I said above, the Seven is one of the simplest, most straightforward vehicles on the market. The light weight and easy access to components makes it even easier to work on. Engines like the K-series or Vauxhall 16 valve are a little daunting for a novice, if you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of needing a full engine rebuild, but everything else is dead easy. If you are interested in this side of things, though, perhaps it might tip the balance in favour of a Crossflow engined car - the Crossflow is about the best engine for a novice to learn on that it's possible to find!
2) The only engine I'd suggest you definitely steer clear of is the Cosworth BDA (they are rare, but you do occasionally encounter them in your price range). They are a great engine, but not really for the novice; rebuild costs can be astronomical. I'd also be cautious about very highly tuned/powerful Crossflows - any Crossflow that genuinely produces more than 145bhp (and remember that there are Lies, Damn Lies and Crossflow Power Claims), is likely to be a bit of a pain in the ass for general road use.
3a) Dunno. It's a long time since I was 21.
If you can get competitive insurance for a Seven at that age, then I wouldn't expect the 3 points to be much of a problem - many insurers don't even weight premiums for speeding points these days, anyway.3b) It's different because it's much cheaper. Like Classic insurance, they make the assumption (rightly or wrongly) that you are an enthusiast who will take particular care of your vehicle and who regards driving as a skill rather than a means of getting from A to B.
4) Yes! Most definitely! As I said above, the Seven is one of the simplest, most straightforward vehicles on the market. The light weight and easy access to components makes it even easier to work on. Engines like the K-series or Vauxhall 16 valve are a little daunting for a novice, if you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of needing a full engine rebuild, but everything else is dead easy. If you are interested in this side of things, though, perhaps it might tip the balance in favour of a Crossflow engined car - the Crossflow is about the best engine for a novice to learn on that it's possible to find!
Hiya
1) You could look at ex-racers as well, depends what you're looking for. I know one or two people who run them as every days (in which case you probably don't want to look at a racer!) and I'm sure one of them will be along with their thoughts.
2) For 12k you'll get a much newer car. I paid not much more than that 2 years ago for a 2003 car - I imagine now it's probably worth about the 12k mark. 1.6k ex-roadsport A racer with a lot of mods
3A) I have 6 points from an SP50 and I found insurance with 3k miles/annum was 600 quid the first year, dropping by about half the second year. However I had a few years with other high performance cars and the 7 was garaged.
3B) I had to list the mods (with Eggar Lawson) and my normal insurer wouldn't insure it (Keith Michaels)
4) I am a mechanical dunce but I've learnt loads over the last year or so and the Caterham community is generally very willing to help you out, pop over an dhit it with a hammer (fixes most things!) or loan you parts
You could pop to Caterham and have a look, or find a local Blatchat meet and look at their cars - where are you based?
1) You could look at ex-racers as well, depends what you're looking for. I know one or two people who run them as every days (in which case you probably don't want to look at a racer!) and I'm sure one of them will be along with their thoughts.
2) For 12k you'll get a much newer car. I paid not much more than that 2 years ago for a 2003 car - I imagine now it's probably worth about the 12k mark. 1.6k ex-roadsport A racer with a lot of mods
3A) I have 6 points from an SP50 and I found insurance with 3k miles/annum was 600 quid the first year, dropping by about half the second year. However I had a few years with other high performance cars and the 7 was garaged.
3B) I had to list the mods (with Eggar Lawson) and my normal insurer wouldn't insure it (Keith Michaels)
4) I am a mechanical dunce but I've learnt loads over the last year or so and the Caterham community is generally very willing to help you out, pop over an dhit it with a hammer (fixes most things!) or loan you parts
You could pop to Caterham and have a look, or find a local Blatchat meet and look at their cars - where are you based?
If you can bring your mum up to Godalming, she can look at ours, and myself and Tessa can tell her how safe and reliable they are, and how we used ours as an only car for 5 years or so, racking up over 100,000 miles in the process.
Have a look at
www.mycaterham.com
Have a look at
www.mycaterham.com
caterhamnut said:
If you can bring your mum up to Godalming, she can look at ours, and myself and Tessa can tell her how safe and reliable they are, and how we used ours as an only car for 5 years or so, racking up over 100,000 miles in the process.
Have a look at
www.mycaterham.com
I've looked at your site many time. Didn't realise you were on here.Have a look at
www.mycaterham.com
I'm in Petersfield so Godalming is only 30 mins away. I'll put forward the suggestion. Thanks. I'll be in contact.
fergus said:
Gingerbread Man said:
I've noticed a few Caterhams with side impact bars.
Do you have to have a full cage for these to fit?
However, a full cage stiffens the chassis up no end... And gives you extra confidence in terms of safety, but each to their own, etc..Do you have to have a full cage for these to fit?
Gingerbread Man: As someone said, Caterhams are pretty simple beasts - there's not much to go wrong. Buying from a dealer gives you peace of mind but costs you, and my guess is you'll regret it after a few months once you start to understand how simple they are.
I'd stay away from VXs, BDs, Twin-cams, Crossflows and anything with a live axle - I think they'll all depreciate more than more modern Caterhams in the near future. Other than injected VXs, most are very uneconomical and most costly to repair should you have engine problems. I like K's as they can be bought cheaply and easily upgraded. They're also reliable, ecomonical and cheap to fix. Yes, the headgasket can go, but if it does, fix it properly and it's unlikely to go again.
Ex race cars can be a bargain, especially now as their seasons are finishing soon. But bear in mind badly repaired race cars can hide some nasty bodges and you need to know what to look for (or take someone along who does).
Polished road cars command stronger prices but if you're not a born polisher or you're going to use it everyday (as you are), you may as well just get a tatty car and save a few quid. One often finds that tatty, well used road/trackday cars from well healed owners can be had very cheaply when they get bored and want something new. The mechanical condition of these well used cars is often better than polished Sunday driver's cars as well in my opinion.
As far as insurance goes, I think you'll be OK at 21 for a standard policy so phone around and get some prices . . . might cost you a bit though as your only car, with SD&P + commuting and a up to say 10K miles pa. A grand should be enough to cover you, decreasing a lot the 2nd year if you don't claim.
I'd stay away from VXs, BDs, Twin-cams, Crossflows and anything with a live axle - I think they'll all depreciate more than more modern Caterhams in the near future. Other than injected VXs, most are very uneconomical and most costly to repair should you have engine problems. I like K's as they can be bought cheaply and easily upgraded. They're also reliable, ecomonical and cheap to fix. Yes, the headgasket can go, but if it does, fix it properly and it's unlikely to go again.
Ex race cars can be a bargain, especially now as their seasons are finishing soon. But bear in mind badly repaired race cars can hide some nasty bodges and you need to know what to look for (or take someone along who does).
Polished road cars command stronger prices but if you're not a born polisher or you're going to use it everyday (as you are), you may as well just get a tatty car and save a few quid. One often finds that tatty, well used road/trackday cars from well healed owners can be had very cheaply when they get bored and want something new. The mechanical condition of these well used cars is often better than polished Sunday driver's cars as well in my opinion.
As far as insurance goes, I think you'll be OK at 21 for a standard policy so phone around and get some prices . . . might cost you a bit though as your only car, with SD&P + commuting and a up to say 10K miles pa. A grand should be enough to cover you, decreasing a lot the 2nd year if you don't claim.
I wouldn't ignore LIve Axle cars at all - especially if you are working to a budget. They don't depreciate at a faster rate than other Sevens - it's just that they are cheaper to start off with in the first place. I bought muy car for £10,500 in 1996 and it is probably worth about £8,500 12 years on - not that I plan on selling it anytime soon.
Noger said:
Quite. In fact I think there will be a good chance a "classic" (i.e. not mucked about with too much) Supersprint or Sprint will be a rare beast in a few more years, and may even increase in value.
Mebee one could get an un-mucked about with Classic. . . but as an everyday car, c.25mph, Optimax, Lead additive, trunions(?sp), unobtanium rear axle spares (well, rare and expensive anyway). Plus if the engine lunches itself, 1600VX and 1700 XF engines are expensive compared to a £100 Ebay Rover engine.With nice 2005 1600K Grads racers selling for under £10K with all the weather gear, I would not be considering LA Classics even if they are a couple of grand cheaper.
I've had an insurance quote through MSM on a 1.8L Zetec engined one. 10K miles per year. Me only for £750.
Bearing in mind that I may get a 1.6 and I'll add a parent or two onto the insurance quote, I'm seeing good figures
From research, I'm basicly looking for a;
1.6/ 1.8L K series.
De Dion as opposed to Live.
5/6sp.
Would a 1.8 over a 1.6 benefit me when using it everyday. I'll quite often have a passenger on board.
It seems that 1.8's in my range aren't as common but if one pops up, worth the extra over a 1.6 in real world terms?
Bearing in mind that I may get a 1.6 and I'll add a parent or two onto the insurance quote, I'm seeing good figures
From research, I'm basicly looking for a;
1.6/ 1.8L K series.
De Dion as opposed to Live.
5/6sp.
Would a 1.8 over a 1.6 benefit me when using it everyday. I'll quite often have a passenger on board.
It seems that 1.8's in my range aren't as common but if one pops up, worth the extra over a 1.6 in real world terms?
The c.140bhp 1.8 with a passenger is slightly faster than a one-up c.118bhp 1.6 - well, in my experience it is.
Problem is, 1.8s are almost all road cars and command a higher price than 1.6 race cars.
You seen the 1.6 talked of here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A 2007 1.6 for £11K
. . If you could get that for £10.5K, sell the sealed 1.6 engine (without ancillaries/sump/ecu/etc) to a racer for c.£500 and replace it with a c.£250 MGF engine from Ebay. . .. you'd have yourself a sub £11K 2007 1.8 Caterham.
Problem is, 1.8s are almost all road cars and command a higher price than 1.6 race cars.
You seen the 1.6 talked of here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A 2007 1.6 for £11K
. . If you could get that for £10.5K, sell the sealed 1.6 engine (without ancillaries/sump/ecu/etc) to a racer for c.£500 and replace it with a c.£250 MGF engine from Ebay. . .. you'd have yourself a sub £11K 2007 1.8 Caterham.Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff