which seven to buy?

[marccart]

Having sold my Exige S1 190 last year I am getting itchy feet already and need some track day action... Am thinking about a seven but which one to give occasional dry day road thrills and blasts to track days and back..Are they all quicker than an Exige, or do I need an exotic variant? How much do I need to spend: 5 grand or 25!There are so many variants it is very confusing!!Thanks for any advice..I love the superlight R's but is a standard Superlight a good bet?

[Tango7]

Hi,

With the range of Superlight R's currently available, these would be a good move from an S1 Exige. Despite having the same 190 BHP output from the 1800 VHPD engine, the SLR version feels a lot different to an S1 Exige version. A superlight will certainly feel a lot more lively and nimble than your Exige but it may be that you feel a need to upgrade fairly soon if you are used to a bit more grunt from the bigger brother.

£18.5k and Ken Evans' car (V11 UFO) is a superb car and very, very quick with its upgrade to 230 BHP. Adrian Olson's car for £17.5k with its 1900cc K series engine is another excellent value car with around 240 BHP. It is a buyers market out there but if you are looking for something special like an SLR, there are still only 127 of them ever made (Ken's is no.127) and they make a superb allrounder for both track and road use.

HTH

T

[BertBert]

You should try a few. There may be no need to go big on the horsepower front. There's always a temptation that more is better. But I enjoyed my 135hp 1600 supersport much more than the R500 I had before it. So a realistic range is 12k for an older 1600 superlight to 20k for the slightly well worn R500 that is currently up on blatchat.

Bert

[B@W]

I upgraded from an Exige to a Caterham.

I was looking for an R300 but decided I'd probably end up wanting more power so I jumped in the deep end and bought an R500: contary to what some will tell you, the're not an uncontrollable handful on road or track.

I paid £24k for a three year old car early this year (one of the last factory built) with 3k miles and in ablsolutey perfect condition so the one on Blatchat looks a bit rich to me

So long as your factor in engine rebuild costs, the're great cars.

Edited by B@W on Tuesday 16th September 21:19

[Mars]

If you're handy with oily bits, buy the best spec CAR you can with the LOWEST spec engine, and upgrade that as you find you need more power.

If not, just buy the most powerful/highest spec one you can afford.


You'll always want more power.

[BertBert]

There two things I always argue about. One is that race cars are always well prepared and the other is that you always want more power.

I went from 165 vx, to 190 slr to 230 R500.

Then I went to a 1600 superlight. Best of the bunch by far!

Bert

[MarchHare]

I'm with Bert on this one. I've raced a 120 bhp car in Roadsports for a few years and, to be honest, there is very little that goes past a well driven basic Roadsports on a track day. Of course extra power probably won't slow you down but from what I've seen it doesn't always make for more speed either. Have a look at some of the lap times of the Roadsports or Graduates and you'll see what I mean. My basic 1600cc Roadsports weighed just 500 kg (albeit farly stripped out - but still with standard clutch/flywheel, apollo tank/7 litres of oil, full cage, and fire extinguisher).

I've just traded the race car in for a new CDX which I'll be building shortly. This has a little more power (135 bhp from a 1.6 K series) and I reckon this will be plenty, not just for real world road use but even for 99% of track use. Sure the really long straights at, say, Bedford or the National straight at Silverstone might not see 150 mph on the speedo but I don't think the you buy a caterham for the straight bits!

[Mars]

BertBert said:

There two things I always argue about. One is that race cars are always well prepared and the other is that you always want more power.

I went from 165 vx, to 190 slr to 230 R500.

Then I went to a 1600 superlight. Best of the bunch by far!

Bert

Yeah, well I went from a 135 XF to a 190 SLR which was incrementally upgraded until it was a 244 SLR and that was the best incarnation of it.

Next time I'm going for something substantially more powerful.

Besides, an accelerator isn't digital.

[Epimetheus]

Mars said:

If you're handy with oily bits, buy the best spec CAR you can with the LOWEST spec engine, and upgrade that as you find you need more power.

If not, just buy the most powerful/highest spec one you can afford..

Hmmmmm . .. . I would recommend getting a high spec chassis - good brakes, dampers, etc. and ideally a good box and a LSD. Engines can always be upgraded relatively cheaply but stuff like LSDs, big brakes, and nice gearboxes cost a fortune and are never cheap. So best to have them from day one.

Mars said:

You'll always want more power.

True, until you have had it, then you'll realise it is more about willie waving or being able to pass better drivers than you on a straight than actual fun.

[Mars]

Epimetheus said:

Mars said:

If you're handy with oily bits, buy the best spec CAR you can with the LOWEST spec engine, and upgrade that as you find you need more power.

If not, just buy the most powerful/highest spec one you can afford..

Hmmmmm . .. . I would recommend getting a high spec chassis - good brakes, dampers, etc. and ideally a good box and a LSD. Engines can always be upgraded relatively cheaply but stuff like LSDs, big brakes, and nice gearboxes cost a fortune and are never cheap. So best to have them from day one.

Mars said:

You'll always want more power.

True, until you have had it, then you'll realise it is more about willie waving or being able to pass better drivers than you on a straight than actual fun.

I HAVE had it and stick by my statement. In fact I'm going to counter your statement and say that it's bugger-all to do with willie waving o passing anyone else AT ALL. It's about going faster which in my book = more fun..!!

You'd think people were scared of higher powered cars if you believe what's written on this thread.

[FEATHERFOOT]

My first 7 was a CSR200 - still find times i'd like more power - not that often mind

[Krismuss]

What about a BEC, there's several fantastic looking fireblades and blackbird 7s for sale at the moment.

I've had my 7-Blackbird for 2 months though have driven it very little (hand injury - don't ask!) though for the little time I've had to date it is fantastic. I always wanted an R300 or a Superlight/Superlight R though was interested by BECs once I'd heard about them (though they have been few and far between in recent years).

Needless to say, first drive out in mine by the last owner (DSL on blatchat) and apart from being frightened witless, was completely hooked at the same time

Can't wait to get back in mine (2 weeks away still)

Chris

Edited by Krismuss on Wednesday 17th September 20:52

[iguana]

MarchHare said:

I'm with Bert on this one. I've raced a 120 bhp car in Roadsports for a few years and, to be honest, there is very little that goes past a well driven basic Roadsports on a track day. Of course extra power probably won't slow you down but from what I've seen it doesn't always make for more speed either. Have a look at some of the lap times of the Roadsports or Graduates and you'll see what I mean. My basic 1600cc Roadsports weighed just 500 kg (albeit farly stripped out - but still with standard clutch/flywheel, apollo tank/7 litres of oil, full cage, and fire extinguisher).

I've just traded the race car in for a new CDX which I'll be building shortly. This has a little more power (135 bhp from a 1.6 K series) and I reckon this will be plenty, not just for real world road use but even for 99% of track use. Sure the really long straights at, say, Bedford or the National straight at Silverstone might not see 150 mph on the speedo but I don't think the you buy a caterham for the straight bits!

Cant really say that roadsports etc go that well, on several trackdays I used to be pretty much bang on there pace in my old Trackday Mk2 golfy which was a very cheap car & not that developed, that was vs caterham racers on A048s but with windscreens which does make big diference pace wise, the lower powered 7s just have no grunt at higher speeds.

For brands indy a lowpowerd 7 is ideal, & race laptimes there for low powered 7s are amazingly fast, but almost anywhere else personally I think a 7 need 200bhp area to be fun, but we are all diferent & would be a dull old world if we were not eh

[OJ]

iguana said:

Cant really say that roadsports etc go that well, on several trackdays I used to be pretty much bang on there pace in my old Trackday Mk2 golfy which was a very cheap car & not that developed, that was vs caterham racers on A048s but with windscreens which does make big diference pace wise, the lower powered 7s just have no grunt at higher speeds.

You sure you're not talking about Classic Graduates, which run A539's and only have 99bhp? In my Mega with 140bhp and AO48's I used to run rings round any track hatches we might encounter. The Supergrads (which had less power and winscreens) would only be less than a second a lap off of us at most circuits, perhaps 1.5 at somewhere like snetterton.

Personally, my C400 is as fast as I'd want to go in a Caterham, would feel unsafe without a cage.

I drove my old Mega at Cadwell last weekend and yes, the straights last longer, but I had at least as much fun. In fact I'd say I had more fun as there's less at risk if you get it wrong.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Lots of conflicting views here. I have had crossflow, 1.4 k, 220 bhp vauxhall and now own Peter T's tuned R500 (257bhp). I found that I wanted to upgrade too many things on th vauxhall and it made financial sense to buy R500 and stop upgrading.

It is extremely fast on the road but certainly not difficult to drive on the limit. You can get caught off cam coming out of corners, but it is all relative as off cam still means silly speed.

[MarchHare]

I don't dispute that a more powerful car is generally capable of going quicker, I just don't agree that it's a prerequisite of having fun on track. The original question was what would make an acceptable replacement for an Exige and would a lower powered Caterham be quicker on track. My view is that a lower powered Caterham is quite capable of sticking with an Exige on track. By way of illustration the Roadsports A and Lotus-on-track series have both raced at Cadwell this year (albeit on different days but, I believe, both in the dry). The Roadsports qualifying time was 1,40.8 at the front of the grid. The Lotus's class B times were similar with the best in qualifying 1.41.78. Class B's are modified and generally up to circa 240 BHP I think. The Lotus's also run on sticky Yoko AO48's which are probably worth a second and a half at least compared to the Caterham's Avon CR500's.

On this basis the answer to the original question is quite clear; yes a lower powered Caterham probably will be quicker than the previous Exige and will be quite adequate for the required purpose!

[marccart]

thanks for all your varied advice! It's a bit like the exiges.com forum-many answers for each question but I suppose it comes down to personal tastes and budget. I like the idea of a Superlight to start with as a compromise -but are they easily upgradable to the various R specs if I wanted more power?

[MikeGF]

Hi marccart

I have a 1.6K series Superlight. Past cars have included a TVR Chimaera & T350c, modified VX220 T and a Monaro.

It feels by far the "quickest" car I have driven. Mainly due to the fact excelleration is so fast and your a$$ is a few inches off the ground . I have driven it regularly and am yet to yearn for more power. I know that I will, but I want to get used to the car first, it's a cojmpletely different drive. Ultimately I want an R500.

A couple of times, yes, I have thought a bit more puff would be better in a straight line, but a quick glance at the speedo shows a high enough speed (on a private road of course) which is more than ample if you were ever to drive it like that on normal roads. Other cars I have had you need to get into licence loosing territory before the fun begins.

But, like so many say, it's not about straight line grunt. I can carry speeds into corners I never have before, handles like nothing before, and gives raw thrills like nothing I have had before. It's all about the twisties & roundabouts..

I cannot wait to take it on track - when I know it will come to life like nothing before... I think everyone who is a petrolhead should, at one time, own a Caterham.

Best advice is to get out in a few. But I don't think you will be upset with a Superlight.

Cheers
MikeGF

Edited by MikeGF on Thursday 18th September 16:39

Edited by MikeGF on Thursday 18th September 16:41

[BertBert]

There is some commonality in the answers I think! There is a def split between the power-merchants and the power-wimps (like me). However, there is probably commonality on the bits you need to have on the car. I think that means basically the superlight spec - 6 spd box, wide-track, appollo (or dry sump), big brakes, LSD, tillet seats. Then in the k-series world it doesn't matter where you start as the upgrade path is great. If you start with 1600supersport, you can DVA it up to 160-180 bhp. Or you can go to 1800 and get up to 230-250, or go up to 1900 Scholar and push some more out.

In the Sigma world -who knows how upgradeable that is? In the Duratec world, that seems to follow a similar path but with a higher starting point.

Best advice is go and drive a few. BTW who cares actually how fast it is on a track day, surely it's about having the best fun (what am I saying????)!

Bert

[jackal]

marccart said:

Are they all quicker than an Exige, or do I need an exotic variant?

pretty much...

even a well driven academy car (13bhp, 3cm width tyres etc..) could give a VHPD Exige a hard time

R300 and you'll be up with the honda powered exiges, 2-11's on most circuits

R400 and you are into the likes of 1.17 at donny, 1.38 at cadwell (seeing as it was mentioned earlier) ... you will need a special Time Attack-esque elise to beat that (read: Supercharged Honda or Blown Audi + well setup + very well driven) & you'd be as quick if not quicker than any of the top race cars in the Elise Trophy

R500... not much different to the R400




(p.s. former 111s, 340r, SLR, R500 owner)

Edited by jackal on Sunday 21st September 21:42