RE: Breaking News: Public To Design New Caterham

[Skydragon]

>>Can't see too many Pistonheads members or Caterham fans opting for an Electric Caterham with the engine in a funny place or fwd!!<<

I agree it just isn't going to happen for a number of reasons.... But if someone came to me and offered a lighweight, composite chassis car, which was powered by the latest electric motor and battery technology and could achieve 0-60 sub 4 secs and a top speed of 100mph all for under £20k I'd be interested.

Back to Splitwheel...

I think it's a great idea. Sure there will be a lot of heated debate, much of which will be a waste of time. But I'm sure there will be a core of well informed and valuable discussion which may (repeat may) enable Caterham cars to produce something a little bit special (other than a seven that is).

My vote at the moment would be for a seven look alike, but based on a totally composite and modular lightweight chassis, with removable body and cockpit panels that allowed a variety of configurations to be easily achieved - by the user in their garage, not the car factory... Just think one day you can roll the car out of your garage as an 'exige', the next week roll it out as an open top 'seven' open wheel trackday tool. It needs top-grade styling so it looks both amazing but not unconventional to the extreme. We need 'sexy'... not like it's the creation of some spanner wielding nerd.

This modular body approach might also stimulate a lot of after market options and user benefits.

[fuoriserie]

[quote=Skydragon
My vote at the moment would be for a seven look alike, but based on a totally composite and modular lightweight chassis, with removable body and cockpit panels that allowed a variety of configurations to be easily achieved - by the user in their garage, not the car factory... Just think one day you can roll the car out of your garage as an 'exige', the next week roll it out as an open top 'seven' open wheel trackday tool. It needs top-grade styling so it looks both amazing but not unconventional to the extreme. We need 'sexy'... not like it's the creation of some spanner wielding nerd.

This modular body approach might also stimulate a lot of after market options and user benefits.


[/quote]

I agree with you on the modular approach, and by having different design and styling options, for different occasions, maybe even supplying a different bodyshape for different uses,track and road bodies, but still using the same chassis.

[Epimetheus]

fuoriserie said:

I agree with you on the modular approach, and by having different design and styling options, for different occasions, maybe even supplying a different bodyshape for different uses,track and road bodies, but still using the same chassis.

I don't agree . . . the body switching functionality would compromise the design too much - make the car too heavy/slow/expensive/gimmicky.

And you have to bear in mind that, at the end of the day; the massive majority of people who buy Caterhams have to get their butler to put the hood on . . . they won't have a chance with changing the body.

Plus there's the storage issues . . . a spare body lying around would be a right pain in the bottom.

[onemorelap]

I still think the 21 deserved to be a success and it was only the timing that killed it off.

Would a re-introduction of the 21 "concept" based on the larger SV chassis work?

[MarchHare]

A modular design wouldn't necessarily involve owners changing the car. It would just allow caterham to launch a range of body styles and features in the same way that Lotus has used its basic tub to sell the elise, exige, 211s, whatever that stretched elise thing was called and 340s. All quite different styles but the same basic tub. I think Caterham could go down a similar route with the new model. Every kit car builder out there uses the space frame chassis so to move the game on I think a combination of alluminium and carbon fibre bath tub is a reasonable starting point.

Add aero efficiency, minimal weight and a rnge of engine possibilities and you have a potentially attractive and new product. If the result is something like the Xbow but half the cost, less weight and more power then I think there would be buyers. I know this is a bit like a revamped Radical but I think it is different enough to carve a new niche.

[EVS777]

Please don't make it look like an X-Bow!!!

EVS777

[fuoriserie]

http://media.volkswagen2028.com/vwcms_publish/etc/...

Look at the Ego concept by VW, as the sports car for the year 2028..........maybe something more aggressive and less futuristic for the year 2010 instead....

[fuoriserie]

MarchHare said:

A modular design wouldn't necessarily involve owners changing the car. It would just allow caterham to launch a range of body styles and features in the same way that Lotus has used its basic tub to sell the elise, exige, 211s, whatever that stretched elise thing was called and 340s. All quite different styles but the same basic tub. I think Caterham could go down a similar route with the new model. Every kit car builder out there uses the space frame chassis so to move the game on I think a combination of alluminium and carbon fibre bath tub is a reasonable starting point.
.

Yes this is what I meant as a modular concept, use the same chassis just as lotus has done in the last 10yrs with the Elise, and then use different bodyshapes.

[Noger]

Epimetheus said:

And you have to bear in mind that, at the end of the day; the massive majority of people who buy Caterhams have to get their butler to put the hood on . . . they won't have a chance with changing the body.

Not a butler's job Adam, one gets a stable boy to do it

No matter how many times I try to get my head round this Splitwheel idea, it just seems a bit pie-in-the-sky. One of those pub ideas that never quite make it.

[Splitwheel]

Hi all, i hadn't checked this thread for a while and was just catching up.....some interesting comments here so thought i'd give you my thoughts.....

Epimetheus said:

So I'm the only one who sees this Splitwheel thing as nothing more than a marketing ploy then? . . .. The give away is the electrical/green spin. . Caterham develop a green car - yeh, right.

The only realistic way Caterham will succeed in delivering a new model it can sell in good numbers is by buying out a smaller company and nicking their product. What about the 21 and the CSR I hear you say . .. .well the 21 was a flop (sorry, but it was) and the CSR is an evolution of the 7.

As per my post right at the beginning of this thread, the 'green stuff' is a possibility but by no means the point of the Project. We want to get to the bottom of the current technologies that are available, cut through the hype and find out if they can really deliver 'green thrills.' If electric/hybrid/whatever can't deliver a serious driver's car that people want to buy, then they won't feature in the car's design.

Glad you highlighted the Caterham 21. Firstly, the guys at Caterham acknowledge it was a flop. Only 50 were sold in 5 years, during which time Lotus sold 5k Elise S1's Caterham is under new ownership/management now (ironically many ex-Lotus guys) and in many ways the 21 illustrates why they want to partner with us on Project Splitwheel. The 21 was critically well received but missed its target by being a compromised, heavier, slower Seven but not as quick, sophisticated or practical as the Elise. It fell between two stools and there was no market for it. Why did that happpen? I think because the 21 was envisioned and built primarily by one man in a bit of a vacuum, Caterham's then-Technical Director Jez Coates. Jez did a great job creating a lovely looking and fun-to-drive roadster for himself....but ultimately nobody else wanted to buy it.

Caterham wish to extend their range beyond the Seven, but can't afford another costly mistake like the 21. They therefore agreed to partner with us on this Project to explore what people really want from a modern-day performance car. If the answer is genuinely that everybody just wants a 911, then they won't produce a new car.....simple as that.

So, call it a marketing ploy if you want, but we reckon that its a win-win. You guys all get to make your case for FWD, 911's, gas turbines, nuclear power or whatever other crazy ideas you have , you can get much more involved than any mainstream manufacturer would allow and have a bit of fun exploring the outer limits of performance car design.
And Caterham (hopefully!) end up with a fantastic new car that should be 'pushing all the buttons' for real petrolheads.

Noger said:

No matter how many times I try to get my head round this Splitwheel idea, it just seems a bit pie-in-the-sky. One of those pub ideas that never quite make it.

Well Noger, the idea probably did start over a brew but that hasn't stopped it from 'making it' so far! As i've said in other threads, a few years ago the idea of ordinary people writing and editing the worlds most referenced encyclopedia, creating an OS to rival Windows, or helping Intel design new laptops seemed far fetched.....

Piers
Founder, Project Splitwheel

[onemorelap]

My suggestion is around filling a "niche" that i think exists for a small, lightweight 2 door coupe.
I suppose historically it would have been a Lenham Sprite and more recently a shrunken version of a TVR 350c, that sort of thing.

If someone came up with a lightweight 2dr. 2 seat coupe that offered mid 30's MPG on a 1.6 to 2.0 platform, "reasonable" practicality and reasonable running costs all wrapped up in a fun handling package that someone over 6ft tall could drive comfortably every day all for a £20k to £25K max asking price then there would be a very good chance of getting my custom!!

[Noger]

Splitwheel said:

Noger said:

No matter how many times I try to get my head round this Splitwheel idea, it just seems a bit pie-in-the-sky. One of those pub ideas that never quite make it.

Well Noger, the idea probably did start over a brew but that hasn't stopped it from 'making it' so far! As i've said in other threads, a few years ago the idea of ordinary people writing and editing the worlds most referenced encyclopedia, creating an OS to rival Windows, or helping Intel design new laptops seemed far fetched.....

Sadly your comprehension of English is clearly not as good as your ability to spin

It SEEMS like one of those 10pm pub ideas, hey lets take Web 2.0 and apply it to cars. Afterall you can run a football team online. And that is where most of these ideas stay, they never seem quite so clever at 8am the next day. Great to see one out in the daylight.

Doomed to failure of course. The workshop floor of history is strewn with "the sports car for the 21st century" attempts. Toniq-R etc. Oh and we are in a recession !

But brilliant for getting it off the ground in the first place. My idea for running a curry house in St.Moritz never did

[juansolo]

Personally, and realistically, I'd like to see a lightweight road coupe. They've got the whole trackday, hardcore thing nailed (pun intended). What no-one currently does is a decently light road sports car with the empasis on fun. Basically what the Elise was 10 years ago...

Take the SV as a base (like they did with the 21 and the old seven) and fit a sensible engine (torquey near boggo Duratec rather than full on mental), keep the weight under 800kgs. Give it a boot, a small level of comfort to make it tolerable. Keep the price to entry level elise levels (£24k) and I'd buy one.

I'm currently in the market for exactly this, and though a Europa sort of meets this criteria, it fails on being too exensive, ugly, and if anything too soft. The old Ginetta G4 coupe would be ideal if it wasn't so damn small (as I'm not exactly little). I've even been looking at things like a Spyder Elan +2.

Nobody currenlty makes this car, maybe it's only me and there's no market for it? Lotus used to and did quite well out of it. The new Elise, like most modern cars has started getting fat and adding things that simply are not required (lots of extras and packs) and it's been dialed down and lost that pointyness that the original had.

Now an SV drives like a 7, has plenty of space in it, clothe it right and I think it'd be an inexpensive to develop (all the chassis work is essentially done) and I think it could be a winner this time.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 8th December 09:01

[juansolo]

onemorelap said:

My suggestion is around filling a "niche" that i think exists for a small, lightweight 2 door coupe.
I suppose historically it would have been a Lenham Sprite and more recently a shrunken version of a TVR 350c, that sort of thing.

If someone came up with a lightweight 2dr. 2 seat coupe that offered mid 30's MPG on a 1.6 to 2.0 platform, "reasonable" practicality and reasonable running costs all wrapped up in a fun handling package that someone over 6ft tall could drive comfortably every day all for a £20k to £25K max asking price then there would be a very good chance of getting my custom!!

I swear I didn't read that before posting mine!

But, spot on that man, my sentiments exactly. There is a hole in the market for something between the hardcore track machinery and the mainstream sports cars. A hole that used to have TVR and Marcos in it. Not that I'm saying a v8 is the way to go, in this day and age I don't think it is. Lightweight, mass produced (reliable) engine, high mpg, proper fun sports car.

Outright bonkers speed is irrelevant in this day and age as you simply can't use it on the road. Gotta keep it fun at sensible levels. The weight will keep it quick and sprightly, don't over tyre it (I hate that) to keep it lively. Make sure the engine has personality and all the controls are as sharp and involving as a seven's.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 8th December 09:12

[onemorelap]

juansolo said:

onemorelap said:

My suggestion is around filling a "niche" that i think exists for a small, lightweight 2 door coupe.
I suppose historically it would have been a Lenham Sprite and more recently a shrunken version of a TVR 350c, that sort of thing.

If someone came up with a lightweight 2dr. 2 seat coupe that offered mid 30's MPG on a 1.6 to 2.0 platform, "reasonable" practicality and reasonable running costs all wrapped up in a fun handling package that someone over 6ft tall could drive comfortably every day all for a £20k to £25K max asking price then there would be a very good chance of getting my custom!!

I swear I didn't read that before posting mine!

But, spot on that man, my sentiments exactly. There is a hole in the market for something between the hardcore track machinery and the mainstream sports cars. A hole that used to have TVR and Marcos in it. Not that I'm saying a v8 is the way to go, in this day and age I don't think it is. Lightweight, mass produced (reliable) engine, high mpg, proper fun sports car.

Outright bonkers speed is irrelevant in this day and age as you simply can't use it on the road. Gotta keep it fun at sensible levels. The weight will keep it quick and sprightly, don't over tyre it (I hate that) to keep it lively. Make sure the engine has personality and all the controls are as sharp and involving as a seven's.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 8th December 09:12

Just caught up with this thread and bugger me, it's in stereo!!

Like your thinking though

[The Pits]

onemorelap said:

juansolo said:

onemorelap said:

My suggestion is around filling a "niche" that i think exists for a small, lightweight 2 door coupe.
I suppose historically it would have been a Lenham Sprite and more recently a shrunken version of a TVR 350c, that sort of thing.

If someone came up with a lightweight 2dr. 2 seat coupe that offered mid 30's MPG on a 1.6 to 2.0 platform, "reasonable" practicality and reasonable running costs all wrapped up in a fun handling package that someone over 6ft tall could drive comfortably every day all for a £20k to £25K max asking price then there would be a very good chance of getting my custom!!

I swear I didn't read that before posting mine!

But, spot on that man, my sentiments exactly. There is a hole in the market for something between the hardcore track machinery and the mainstream sports cars. A hole that used to have TVR and Marcos in it. Not that I'm saying a v8 is the way to go, in this day and age I don't think it is. Lightweight, mass produced (reliable) engine, high mpg, proper fun sports car.

Outright bonkers speed is irrelevant in this day and age as you simply can't use it on the road. Gotta keep it fun at sensible levels. The weight will keep it quick and sprightly, don't over tyre it (I hate that) to keep it lively. Make sure the engine has personality and all the controls are as sharp and involving as a seven's.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 8th December 09:12

Just caught up with this thread and bugger me, it's in stereo!!

Like your thinking though

This sounds like a reciepe for a hard top 21 no?

[onemorelap]

The Pits said:

onemorelap said:

juansolo said:

onemorelap said:

My suggestion is around filling a "niche" that i think exists for a small, lightweight 2 door coupe.
I suppose historically it would have been a Lenham Sprite and more recently a shrunken version of a TVR 350c, that sort of thing.

If someone came up with a lightweight 2dr. 2 seat coupe that offered mid 30's MPG on a 1.6 to 2.0 platform, "reasonable" practicality and reasonable running costs all wrapped up in a fun handling package that someone over 6ft tall could drive comfortably every day all for a £20k to £25K max asking price then there would be a very good chance of getting my custom!!

I swear I didn't read that before posting mine!

But, spot on that man, my sentiments exactly. There is a hole in the market for something between the hardcore track machinery and the mainstream sports cars. A hole that used to have TVR and Marcos in it. Not that I'm saying a v8 is the way to go, in this day and age I don't think it is. Lightweight, mass produced (reliable) engine, high mpg, proper fun sports car.

Outright bonkers speed is irrelevant in this day and age as you simply can't use it on the road. Gotta keep it fun at sensible levels. The weight will keep it quick and sprightly, don't over tyre it (I hate that) to keep it lively. Make sure the engine has personality and all the controls are as sharp and involving as a seven's.

Edited by juansolo on Monday 8th December 09:12

Just caught up with this thread and bugger me, it's in stereo!!

Like your thinking though

This sounds like a reciepe for a hard top 21 no?

That sort of principle but based on the SV chassis and the functionality of a coupe over a soft top.
Biggest problem i could forsee would be reasonable access / egress, heat soak and noise but i'm sure there's far more intelligent people than me who could find solutions to those issues.

[The Pits]

Wouldn't a hard top limit sales unnecessarily? Surely most prefer open air thrills when they can get them? I'm going by exige sales compared to elise and they are much smaller.

Then again what do I know. I said the Cayenne would be a disaster for Porsche!

[juansolo]

The Pits said:

This sounds like a reciepe for a hard top 21 no?

No. The 21 is way too small internally and not practical enough. It was the main reason at the time my brother went with an Elise (well that and because Caterham's attitude to customers at that time was shocking). The 21 had a lot of great ideas, but it was outclassed and outpriced by the Elise. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think I should probably just bite the bullet and buy a new Toyoda injuned one. That aside, I still think there's a market (well me) for a coupe, fatboy, more practical (and prettier) 21...

[onemorelap]

I've always loved the profile of the 21 and think it has aged very well. However based on the old seven chassis the front profile looked a tad skinny in proportion and compromised the cabin size to the detriment of larger drivers as others have mentioned.

Using the 21 as a base theme BUT then utilising the wider SV would make it a far more attractive proposition for a 2dr. coupe that could be used on a daily basis.

I found an old sketch of a 21 and have added some ham fisted lines to show what a coupe version could like (hope this isn't breaking any sort of protocol?)

In summary update the 21 design, "blow it up" to fit the SV chassis and add a roof!!



My whole idea behind postings on this forum was based on the below which based on a comparable price to the MX5 would make it a sales winner imho: