Advice for a newbie: old Caterham or old Westfield?
Discussion
The only thing that puts me off a modern (post 1986) Westfield is the acres of fibreglass.
It just isn't as nice as the aluminium bodywork on a Caterham.
But there really isn't much to choose between the two in terms of the chassis.
I find the independent rear suspension of the SEi Westfields a much more elegant design than the De Dion Caterham.
And the twin trailing arm and panhard rod arrangement at the rear of a live axle Westfield is a better solution than the single trailing arm and A frame at the back of a live axle Caterham.
There is no doubt that an early Caterham is a fairly rough and ready piece of equipment. The wiring, dash, trim and suspension of my 1977 Caterham are pretty shoddy. And the finish of the fibreglass is really crap.
There isn't much doubt that my 1985 Westfield was more nicely made.
But the 1999 Caterham that I built was miles better than either of them.
So it seems that the game has moved on massively since the 1970s and 1980s.
I've said it before, but the biggest factor is the lack of arse and leg room in a short cockpit Seven.
It doesn't matter how lovely it is, if you can't drive it you soon get fed up with it. And you don't need to be a giant to feel uncomfortable in a Seven of any description.
It just isn't as nice as the aluminium bodywork on a Caterham.
But there really isn't much to choose between the two in terms of the chassis.
I find the independent rear suspension of the SEi Westfields a much more elegant design than the De Dion Caterham.
And the twin trailing arm and panhard rod arrangement at the rear of a live axle Westfield is a better solution than the single trailing arm and A frame at the back of a live axle Caterham.
There is no doubt that an early Caterham is a fairly rough and ready piece of equipment. The wiring, dash, trim and suspension of my 1977 Caterham are pretty shoddy. And the finish of the fibreglass is really crap.
There isn't much doubt that my 1985 Westfield was more nicely made.
But the 1999 Caterham that I built was miles better than either of them.
So it seems that the game has moved on massively since the 1970s and 1980s.
I've said it before, but the biggest factor is the lack of arse and leg room in a short cockpit Seven.
It doesn't matter how lovely it is, if you can't drive it you soon get fed up with it. And you don't need to be a giant to feel uncomfortable in a Seven of any description.
Yeah, I'd agree with most of what Pat says, too - though the live axle Westfield is no better than the live axle Caterham; the Panhard provides better (stiffer) location and doesn't eat bushes like the Caterham's A-frame, but causes a small amount of lateral displacement of the axle relative to the chassis in bump and slightly less traction due to jacking effect against axle torque.
And the trailing arms are far too short on either of 'em. If you must have a live axle, the Sylva is the way to go (longitudinal, asymmetric Watts linkages with a Panhard rod).
The fibreglass bodywork may not look as sharp, but it doesn't have the corrosion problems of aluminium, if you intend to use the car rather than polish it.
But you don't really want ali or glass fibre. You want carbon.
And the trailing arms are far too short on either of 'em. If you must have a live axle, the Sylva is the way to go (longitudinal, asymmetric Watts linkages with a Panhard rod).
The fibreglass bodywork may not look as sharp, but it doesn't have the corrosion problems of aluminium, if you intend to use the car rather than polish it.
But you don't really want ali or glass fibre. You want carbon.
Sam_68 said:
The fibreglass bodywork may not look as sharp, but it doesn't have the corrosion problems of aluminium, if you intend to use the car rather than polish it.
Yep.If I wanted to use a "Seven" as a daily driver, I would buy a wide bodied Westfield SEi with lowered floors. That self coloured Tupperware bodywork is far more sensible than all the polished ali on a Caterham.
I bought my current 1977 Caterham after having looked at building a new Caterham or Westfield.
The expense of a new build, together with the hassle and cost of SVA, having to contend with fuel injection, catalysts and modern car insurance eventually led me to conclude that it would be cheaper, easier and more fun to restore an old Seven.
I don't regret the decision, though I would dearly love to build a Westfield Eleven.
I have just collected my restored chassis from Arch Motors, complete with long cockpit conversion, lowered floors, front mounted radiator and a proper top wishbone front end.
I shaln't tell you how much it has cost, but I can't wait to get it all back together with its snorty Big Valve Twin Cam.
Well, months have passed, and I still want one 
I've ended up at a Caterham after all, attracted by looks, good resale value and parts availability.
I'm estimating, that in about a month I could be driving one, so if anyone is selling a nice pre-92 example for up to 8k or so, give me a shout please.
My dream spec would be, rather obviously, a 1700 with de-dion, LSD, FIA rollbar, lowered floor, full weather gear and cycle wings, but... that's optimistic for 8k, so I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of that, except the weather gear perhaps.
I've ended up at a Caterham after all, attracted by looks, good resale value and parts availability.I'm estimating, that in about a month I could be driving one, so if anyone is selling a nice pre-92 example for up to 8k or so, give me a shout please.
My dream spec would be, rather obviously, a 1700 with de-dion, LSD, FIA rollbar, lowered floor, full weather gear and cycle wings, but... that's optimistic for 8k, so I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of that, except the weather gear perhaps.
MXM said:
My dream spec would be, rather obviously, a 1700 with de-dion, LSD, FIA rollbar, lowered floor, full weather gear and cycle wings, but... that's optimistic for 8k, so I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of that, except the weather gear perhaps.
Don't sacrifice the dedion. The rest can be added. And keep your eyes peeled for a retrofitted Zetec, K, or VX (ideally 2.0l).If you buy a budget 7 for < 8k youll be wanting to upgrade sooner rather than later -trust me ive been with 4 previous caterhams -so id say if you are on tight budget as most of us are nowadays -for the same money get a better specced westie with all the bits you want on your wish list biut cant afford in a 7 [eg lsd ,wide body,ind rear susp,wide track ,discs all round , more power etc ] and it'll be happy days with no need to upgrade .
Eric Mc said:
Not all Sevenners are afflicted by upgraditis. I've had my 1600 Crossflow Classic SE for 13 years and love it as it is.
Too right. I'll admit that I had it with my last one and went a bit bonkers. This one I've tried to be far more sensible. Brake seals went, ooooh I could buy some new light alloy 4 pots... But wait a minute, the current stoppers are pretty awesome and I don't really have any issues with steering feel down to excessive unsprung weight. You know, I think I'll put the same ones back. Likewise a couple of weeks ago when I did the front wheel bearings, I had a ooooooh I could get alloy hubs, disks and bells, luckily the Yorkshireman in me stepped in when I saw the few hundred pounds vs £23 for a set of bearings. If it ain't broke, don't fix it 
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