Why can't I find a caterham to buy?
Discussion
RZSupra said:
I've been scouring the classifieds here, blatchat and autotrader for over two months and still not found the right one. I am looking to spend up to 12K and the only must haves are K series engine or newer and road legal.
Ideal car would have 6 speed gearbox, LSD, wet weather gear, heater and 1.8VVC.
Am I seeking the holy grail or is it the time of year or....?
If anyone is thinking of selling please let me know.
If it were me then I would up the budget by a grand o so and head for a Superlight R. LSD, carbon, big brakes, adj suspension, 6SP. Forget the heater and I reackon you'll sell the weather gear for an aero.Ideal car would have 6 speed gearbox, LSD, wet weather gear, heater and 1.8VVC.
Am I seeking the holy grail or is it the time of year or....?
If anyone is thinking of selling please let me know.
For an SLR even in these times, you will look for spend £14k+ but for the money you will have one of the best all round sevens IMHO, and last year they were selling for £17-18k
SLR's have widetrack, LSD, big brakes, 1800cc VHPD engine with 190 BHP and hopefully a dry sump system plus they might have the CF bits on them. So as the previous posters says, for a relatively small amount of money, you could buy into a lot more upgrade parts as standard
SLR's have widetrack, LSD, big brakes, 1800cc VHPD engine with 190 BHP and hopefully a dry sump system plus they might have the CF bits on them. So as the previous posters says, for a relatively small amount of money, you could buy into a lot more upgrade parts as standard
Have a look at this car that has just been advertised : http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/845360.htm
Not all the spec but a very good price for this age
Not all the spec but a very good price for this age
Personally I think Tango's advice on an SLR is the way you'd be wise to go...
If the following is still for sale, it would be worth a look. Colour wouldn't be my first choice, but with an 'ono' after the asking price, you could be down to (or below) Tango's suggested price and have a serious amount more car for just a grand or two more than your budget...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/805515.htm
If the following is still for sale, it would be worth a look. Colour wouldn't be my first choice, but with an 'ono' after the asking price, you could be down to (or below) Tango's suggested price and have a serious amount more car for just a grand or two more than your budget...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/805515.htm
BertBert said:
Now that's a fast car for the money. Awesome.
Bert
IMHO, I wouldn't describe it as exactly "fast", with all due respect. A BEC is a totally different experience to a car-engined Caterham. Blades are all about maintaining momentum, little torque and a lightness of feel that you won't find in a car-engined Caterham. The experience may not suit all and I'd certainly recommend one drives both versions before making that decision. Bert
Tango 7 has a Blackbird engined car and I think that's a better halfway house between the two, offering more torque....ust as long as you're happy rebuilding the 'box after every run
rubystone said:
just as long as you're happy rebuilding the 'box after every run
Unless you have a £1,200 receipt in the file for the Nova gearbox upgrade! 
Bit noisy for road use (like a SCCR box on a CEC) but fine when you get used to it.Rich Ball has had a lot of interest in that car though and its likely to be sold this weekend according to the Blatchat thread. If you are after a Blackbird BEC, MINGS' one is coming up for sale in the Spring as he says on a BC thread.
T
Neither the 'Blade nor the 'Bird were really the best bike engine to stick in a seven at the time. Although it was a compromise because they could at least get new engines from Honda.
Although the 2007 'Blade is very much back in BECland, well non-Caterham BECland anyway. The world of BECs has moved on a fair bit since the Whiting Fireblade days, which is a real shame.
£10k was a bargain however. No wonder it went so quickly.
And what other Caterham at the same price would be as fast ? "Fast for the price" would seem a very good point, but you will always get someone with limited reading skill who will not get past the word "fast" before humphing at the screen
Although the 2007 'Blade is very much back in BECland, well non-Caterham BECland anyway. The world of BECs has moved on a fair bit since the Whiting Fireblade days, which is a real shame.
£10k was a bargain however. No wonder it went so quickly.
And what other Caterham at the same price would be as fast ? "Fast for the price" would seem a very good point, but you will always get someone with limited reading skill who will not get past the word "fast" before humphing at the screen
Noger said:
And what other Caterham at the same price would be as fast ? "Fast for the price" would seem a very good point, but you will always get someone with limited reading skill who will not get past the word "fast" before humphing at the screen
My R500. An R400 that GHR had for sale last year...they are out there, you just have to know where they are and keep an eye out.rubystone said:
Noger said:
And what other Caterham at the same price would be as fast ? "Fast for the price" would seem a very good point, but you will always get someone with limited reading skill who will not get past the word "fast" before humphing at the screen
My R500. An R400 that GHR had for sale last year...they are out there, you just have to know where they are and keep an eye out.stripy7 said:
Noger said:
Neither the 'Blade nor the 'Bird were really the best bike engine to stick in a seven at the time.
Realy? They are bullet proof. Blackbird engine was very expensive, and revved pretty low, 10k vs 12.5k. Torqueyness made up for it though.
Like I said, there are some very good reasons why these were chosen (emissions, ability to source from new) however, given free engine choice you probably wouldn't choose them over say an R1.
Taking nothing away from the fantastic engineering of both machines, they are far more "complete" than our home grown efforts. But a compromised engine choice IMHO.
Just for the record a standard blackbird engine is rev limited to 11.5 k rpm. Maximum power is at about 10,350 rpm but they only lose a couple of hp up to the rev limiter and are very torquey.
The blackbird engine was most certainly the engine of choice prior to the busa coming along as demonstrated by the number used in autocross and sidecar racing and the quantity of tuning parts developed like the nova dry sumps and gear sets.
Still a good lump today especially as a nice low mileage replacement costs 900 quid or less with 165 hp (crank) and a free sequential box.
My caterham blackbird L7 BYK in flouro lotus krypton green made it to a couple of pistonhead trackdays and plenty others last year and will do the same this year usually accompanied by the ex jordan blackbird C7 BYK. If anyone wants a ride just ask.
Will
The blackbird engine was most certainly the engine of choice prior to the busa coming along as demonstrated by the number used in autocross and sidecar racing and the quantity of tuning parts developed like the nova dry sumps and gear sets.
Still a good lump today especially as a nice low mileage replacement costs 900 quid or less with 165 hp (crank) and a free sequential box.
My caterham blackbird L7 BYK in flouro lotus krypton green made it to a couple of pistonhead trackdays and plenty others last year and will do the same this year usually accompanied by the ex jordan blackbird C7 BYK. If anyone wants a ride just ask.
Will
Hmmmm, a tiny handful of Caterhams and some sidecar racers doesn't equal the majority of BECs out there.
Most BECs are not Caterhams, and very few have Blackbird engines. They are a bit heavy and need a dry sump. Unlike the R1, which is the engine of choice over the last few years. Light, powerful, and no need for major oil modification other than a tulip. Just have a nose at Locostbuiders or the BEC group on Yahoo.
Of course a Blackbird is very tuneable, like the Busa. More so than the 1 litres, which are about on the edge of blowing something up ! When asking about the fragility of the conrods in the GSXR1000, and whether I should get some Carrilos the answer was "Don't bother, you will just be transferring the likelihood of breakage to something else".
The reason Caterham chose Honda was that they could get reliable supply of new engines, so no Q plates. And it was a good match for the heavier de-dion set up.
So I still stand by my assertion that you wouldn't drop a vanilla Blackbird engine into a LSIS these days. Or even over the past few years. Unless you wanted, like the sidecar boys, to tune the crap out of it. As a simple, cheap, engine replacement, there were and are better choices if you want 2nd hand engines.
Most BECs are not Caterhams, and very few have Blackbird engines. They are a bit heavy and need a dry sump. Unlike the R1, which is the engine of choice over the last few years. Light, powerful, and no need for major oil modification other than a tulip. Just have a nose at Locostbuiders or the BEC group on Yahoo.
Of course a Blackbird is very tuneable, like the Busa. More so than the 1 litres, which are about on the edge of blowing something up ! When asking about the fragility of the conrods in the GSXR1000, and whether I should get some Carrilos the answer was "Don't bother, you will just be transferring the likelihood of breakage to something else".
The reason Caterham chose Honda was that they could get reliable supply of new engines, so no Q plates. And it was a good match for the heavier de-dion set up.
So I still stand by my assertion that you wouldn't drop a vanilla Blackbird engine into a LSIS these days. Or even over the past few years. Unless you wanted, like the sidecar boys, to tune the crap out of it. As a simple, cheap, engine replacement, there were and are better choices if you want 2nd hand engines.
Dear Noger
I was merely replying to your comment "Neither the 'Blade nor the 'Bird were really the best bike engine to stick in a seven at the time"
In the case of the 'Bird ,as the majority of factory caterham blackbirds were built from 2000 to 2002 I stand by my view that, "at the time" the blackbird engine was the engine of choice rather than a compromise.
I didn't really want to open a whole new debate on what is best today and what needs a dry sump or not and what goes bang without a dry sump but I did want to correct the misinformation that a blackbird only revs to 10000 rpm and clarify that it is still a good lump especially with a 1200 big bore if you need 200 bhp and around 450kg.
Will
I was merely replying to your comment "Neither the 'Blade nor the 'Bird were really the best bike engine to stick in a seven at the time"
In the case of the 'Bird ,as the majority of factory caterham blackbirds were built from 2000 to 2002 I stand by my view that, "at the time" the blackbird engine was the engine of choice rather than a compromise.
I didn't really want to open a whole new debate on what is best today and what needs a dry sump or not and what goes bang without a dry sump but I did want to correct the misinformation that a blackbird only revs to 10000 rpm and clarify that it is still a good lump especially with a 1200 big bore if you need 200 bhp and around 450kg.
Will
Yeah, except we were talking about a 2005 car
2000, perhaps yes. Alternatives such as the Busa and ZX12R didn't come along until a few years later.
I did get the max rpm wrong though, I thought it was lower than the 1 litres and did a quick check on Wikipedia but mistook Max RPM for the rpm at Max bhp
Was mostly having a moan about the lack of BEC Caterham development since 2004/5 ish. I wanted one at the time. James Whiting was having supply issues with parts, and the development of the EFI 'Blade was a non-starter. Blackbird Motorsport where not that helpful either. And as for Caterham
Hence 5 years of attempting to do it myself (with rather a lot of help !).
Seems a shame as there have been a lot of developments over the years. Resilient tubes for the propshaft. Affordable Flatshift. Kevlar clutch plates with drag race springs etc
2000, perhaps yes. Alternatives such as the Busa and ZX12R didn't come along until a few years later.
I did get the max rpm wrong though, I thought it was lower than the 1 litres and did a quick check on Wikipedia but mistook Max RPM for the rpm at Max bhp
Was mostly having a moan about the lack of BEC Caterham development since 2004/5 ish. I wanted one at the time. James Whiting was having supply issues with parts, and the development of the EFI 'Blade was a non-starter. Blackbird Motorsport where not that helpful either. And as for Caterham
Hence 5 years of attempting to do it myself (with rather a lot of help !).
Seems a shame as there have been a lot of developments over the years. Resilient tubes for the propshaft. Affordable Flatshift. Kevlar clutch plates with drag race springs etc
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