anyone know this R500?

[rathur]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/867259.htm

seems v low mileage?

going to see it hopefully this week

thanks so much for any info

[BertBert]

You'll want to check whether it has had the R500 "reliability mods" done to the engine of that era. From memory, they weren't established until late summer 2001. I think the complete pack was - uprated bearings, diddy apollo tank, oil cooler, ecu controlled fan. I think the bearings was the key one.

I would guess that the selling garage know diddly about caterhams from their ad, so I would verify anything they say from an independent source (the prev owner, caterham cars, minister).

Nice looking car though, but probably too expensive (by 2-4k).

HTH
BErt

[rathur]

cheers! will do

[Vladimir]

That'll be 2'700 circuit miles. Saw the car a while ago when it had aeroscreen etc. Much loved and in great condition but used very hard.

Check for engine refresh/service history.

[B@W]

Vladimir said:

That'll be 2'700 circuit miles. Saw the car a while ago when it had aeroscreen etc. Much loved and in great condition but used very hard.

Check for engine refresh/service history.

Out of intrest, how could you tell it had led a hard life??

[Vladimir]

I didn't say it had a hard life - I said it was much loved and in great condition but was USED hard. Isn't that what an R500 is for anyway? Nothing wrong with that.

I chatted to the original owner some time ago and was led to believe the car was trailered to the track, used properly then trailered home. Would be worth sending the ECU to Graham at Minister before purchase just to be sure - you dont want a con-rod making a rare public appearence shortly after you drive it away.

Edited by Vladimir on Monday 9th February 14:44

[1st_petrolhead]

Wel mine was a 2002 car but did not have an oil cooler or diddy tank

[BertBert]

isn't the R500 refresh interval 2500-3000 track miles?
Bert

[rubystone]

Vladimir said:

Would be worth sending the ECU to Graham at Minister before purchase just to be sure - you dont want a con-rod making a rare public appearence shortly after you drive it away.

Edited by Vladimir on Monday 9th February 14:44

Very sound advice indeed Vladimir.

The bearing mods are the key ones - also some others such as the bigger lower pulley. I don't have an Apollo tank though. They also adjusted the ECU rev limit to 8600.

Minister will have the full details on the engine in that car.

[martin thomas]

In fairness i can't see any dealer allowing the ecu being removed and sent off to a 3rd party. I saw this car advertised and it does look very nice. Gotta be worth a look?

Martin

[mic]

The ECU won't tell you that much. The 967 does not have very much in the way of logging. Be far better to get it properly checked with a leakdown test etc.

[Hedgetrimmer]

The hard life will result in fatigue more than anything which will be difficult to detect. Ie pins, bearings, springs, rod bolts may have been weakend especially if selecting too low a gear whilst on the track. Oil pressure and leakdown test would be a good start but will certainly not indicate whether anything might fail. I would negotiate a reduction to cover the cost of the engine being rebuilt by Dave Andrew at DVA power.

[martin thomas]

I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.


Martin

[Hedgetrimmer]

martin thomas said:

I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.


Martin

I think that this is questionable advice. A replacement R500 engine is £11k and it is therefore a large gamble given that evidence suggests it has been on the track. Of course you can chip a price in this market (or even a normal market) as most R500 are sold with engine refreshes. R500's are selling for sub £20k with recent engine rebuilds so there is a fairly large margin strapped across this one!

The above is not a pessamistic view. It is a realistic view from someone owning an R500 who is aware of the issues with the engine.

[martin thomas]

Hedgetrimmer said:

martin thomas said:

I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.


Martin

I think that this is questionable advice. A replacement R500 engine is £11k and it is therefore a large gamble given that evidence suggests it has been on the track. Of course you can chip a price in this market (or even a normal market) as most R500 are sold with engine refreshes. R500's are selling for sub £20k with recent engine rebuilds so there is a fairly large margin strapped across this one!

The above is not a pessamistic view. It is a realistic view from someone owning an R500 who is aware of the issues with the engine.

I didn't say you couldn't chip the price, Infact you'd be crazy not to. Just don't expect a dealer to drop the price if the only reason is because it might go wrong in the future.

[dsl2]

As a recent convert to Caterhams Martin can be excused for not being aware of the grenade spec nature of the very highly tuned K series engines!

Any buyer would want a water tight guarantee, or evidence of a pretty recent rebuild of the engine before paying top dollar for a R500 in my opinion.

[martin thomas]

Granted all this caterham stuff is new to me. So being diplomatic about things if you managed to chip 3-4k off of the asking price of said car that would maybe pay for a good refresh of the engine, would you consider the car in question as being a good buy? It is ultra low miles after all.Even so If that discount was asked for i still wouldn't say it was because i thought something might go wrong in the future lol. More about being over valued in the 1st place.


Martin.

[mic]

Hedgetrimmer, I was saying a leakdown test was more use than looking at the ECU. I did not say it was a way of predicting the future of the engine.

[BertBert]

martin thomas said:

Granted all this caterham stuff is new to me. So being diplomatic about things if you managed to chip 3-4k off of the asking price of said car that would maybe pay for a good refresh of the engine, would you consider the car in question as being a good buy? It is ultra low miles after all.Even so If that discount was asked for i still wouldn't say it was because i thought something might go wrong in the future lol. More about being over valued in the 1st place.


Martin.

The specific problem with the R500 is that as with any highly tuned engine it has a relatively short life. There was a recommendation from Caterham about how many track day miles to do before a rebuild. Thus if the engine is near its track day life and hasn't been refreshed, then you'd need to take that into account when buying. It's a bit like the tread on the tyres (although that's much more measurable of course!). It's easily negotiable with the seller however you want to. At the asking price, in my view it'd need to be in tip-top condition with a demonstrably recent refresh if the majority of its miles had been on track. At 4k off to do a refresh if it hasn't had one and needs one (which means you'd really have to do it), it's probably a good buy, but not outstanding.

Of course this is all speculation as we don't actually know its historyor condition in any detail!

Bert

[Hedgetrimmer]

I love the internet. When you read the posts I don't think we would sit around the table and have the same conversation. It is such a cold place to have a debate.

Good advice would be to have the engine rebuilt pretty soon.