caterham prices (rant)
Discussion
James.S said:
hmmm, many refrences to a reasonable mark up, so again I ask the question of you, What do you expect a parts department to sell afast moving part that has cost them £20.
The example the OP gave wasn't for a 20GBP part.It was a part that another commercial enterprise (the "manufacturer" of the part - I actually doubt they do make it themselves) sells for 21GBP. One would imagine that Caterham gets that part at a suitable discount itself from them, so would be able to sell it at or around that figure and still make a profit (the "manufacturer", after all has stocking, staffing etc charges).
Giving them some latitude, maybe 25GBP would seem palatable (and constitutes a further 20% profit - who makes those sort of margins at the minute, let alone more than that as would be the case) IF they must insist on bigger margins.
34GBP is taking the piss.
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Giving them some latitude, maybe 25GBP would seem palatable (and constitutes a further 20% profit - who makes those sort of margins at the minute, let alone more than that as would be the case) IF they must insist on bigger margins.
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Yeah, that sounds great. Try it.
Give me first option on your parts racking will you, i'll pay you cash so i can have it before the recievers. lol
Edited by James.S on Saturday 14th March 15:13
fergus said:
What rationale consumer would knowingly buy a part that can be obtained cheaper elsewhere. Most Caterham parts can be bought on price alone as several are generic.
Not sure what business school you went to but plenty actually. 
I was in the Apple Store the other day looking for a pair of decent headphones for my iPod. Didn't buy any though because Apple seem to be charging 100% more for a pair than the prices on ebay.
Do Apple therefore not sell anything from their stores because its 'overpriced'?
Are they a bunch of p$ss-taking thieves for doing this?
Shall i start posting up rants about what b@stards they are?
No.
You're paying for the lovely, cuddly, 'branded' experience of going into an Apple Store....and anybody half sensible knows that. I think most people would recognise that you often pay more for things like convenience and customer service. Often its simply that you can't be bothered, or don't have time, to hunt for a deal on something low-value that you need.
Likewise, why buy a pair of branded jeans on the high street when you can find them cheaper online? Possibly because you can try them on and get some advice from the shop assistant on which cut/size to buy? Maybe you need them ASAP and don't have the time/energy to faff about looking for a cheaper deal?
What's the difference between that and ringing Caterham to provide help and advice on parts and them charging a bit more than a generic competitor? Would you try a pair of jeans on in a Levi store and then ask the staff to look up the price of a pair on ebay for you?!?!
Ok, we're talking oily bits here not fashion, but its the same principle - if you want the lowest price then do the legwork and find out that part number yourself rather than expecting Caterham to provide a service, take your calls, hold stock AND price match everyone else out there!
As the 'official' source of parts they'd be mad (and probably out of business) if they did that! If the tenner is a big deal to you or you happen to know somewhere you can get the part quicker/cheaper, then go and buy the part elsewhere. I assume that in whatever line of business you're in you aim to make the lowest margin possible on everything?!
darth_pies said:
fergus said:
What rationale consumer would knowingly buy a part that can be obtained cheaper elsewhere. Most Caterham parts can be bought on price alone as several are generic.
Not sure what business school you went to but plenty actually. I was in the Apple Store the other day looking for a pair of decent headphones for my iPod. Didn't buy any though because Apple seem to be charging 100% more for a pair than the prices on ebay.
Do Apple therefore not sell anything from their stores because its 'overpriced'?
Are they a bunch of p$ss-taking thieves for doing this?
Shall i start posting up rants about what b@stards they are?
No.
You're paying for the lovely, cuddly, 'branded' experience of going into an Apple Store....and anybody half sensible knows that. I think most people would recognise that you often pay more for things like convenience and customer service. Often its simply that you can't be bothered, or don't have time, to hunt for a deal on something low-value that you need.
Likewise, why buy a pair of branded jeans on the high street when you can find them cheaper online? Possibly because you can try them on and get some advice from the shop assistant on which cut/size to buy? Maybe you need them ASAP and don't have the time/energy to faff about looking for a cheaper deal?
What's the difference between that and ringing Caterham to provide help and advice on parts and them charging a bit more than a generic competitor? Would you try a pair of jeans on in a Levi store and then ask the staff to look up the price of a pair on ebay for you?!?!
Ok, we're talking oily bits here not fashion, but its the same principle - if you want the lowest price then do the legwork and find out that part number yourself rather than expecting Caterham to provide a service, take your calls, hold stock AND price match everyone else out there!
As the 'official' source of parts they'd be mad (and probably out of business) if they did that! If the tenner is a big deal to you or you happen to know somewhere you can get the part quicker/cheaper, then go and buy the part elsewhere. I assume that in whatever line of business you're in you aim to make the lowest margin possible on everything?!
The only need to ask Caterham for a part number is that they are incredibly protective of their relationships with suppliers and as such as reluctant to provide this info, i.e. they try and prevent AP from dealing direct with people.
Why not try and source things cheaper elsewhere? I'm sure you'd not buy at list from a dealer if you were buying a car but would shop around for the same goods at a lower price?
Making a low margin on a high turnover business is a good way of setting up an efficent barrier to entry. Not everything is a function of a high margin....
PS ringing caterham and getting a mail order part is no more/less hassle than ringing a cheaper supplier and ordering the mail order part. Your high street shopping example isn't quite the right one to support your argument
Edited by fergus on Wednesday 25th March 15:01
fergus said:
our high street shopping example isn't quite the right one to support your argument
I'm afraid it absolutely is. You have choice. You can buy from Caterham or elsewhere. If you have enough info to buy elsewhere, then you can, your choice. However if you want to not be bothered about part numbers you can ring up Caterham and order the part at the price they sell at. If they get it wrong, people stop buying from them and can be bothered to source elsewhere. Exactly analagous to buying in the Apple store or off ebay. Each has benefits and dis-benefits (yuk, sorry), you choose what you want to do. It's really that simple. I don't understand why you are so upset about it. That's the bit that lost me.I thought that the thing that you were really upset about was the fact that they couldn't answer your questions with regard to tensile strengths and suitability for purpose?
Bert
BertBert said:
fergus said:
our high street shopping example isn't quite the right one to support your argument
I'm afraid it absolutely is. You have choice. You can buy from Caterham or elsewhere. If you have enough info to buy elsewhere, then you can, your choice. However if you want to not be bothered about part numbers you can ring up Caterham and order the part at the price they sell at. If they get it wrong, people stop buying from them and can be bothered to source elsewhere. Exactly analagous to buying in the Apple store or off ebay. Each has benefits and dis-benefits (yuk, sorry), you choose what you want to do. It's really that simple. I don't understand why you are so upset about it. That's the bit that lost me.I thought that the thing that you were really upset about was the fact that they couldn't answer your questions with regard to tensile strengths and suitability for purpose?
Bert
Whether suppliers like it or not (or whether it is 'moral' to do so) consumers will continue to shop around to get the best deal, even if that means people end up doing work that leads to nothing.
This happens all the time in terms of firms going through the competitive tender process. It's just part of life. I saved almost £4k on a watch shopping around like this. Not to be sniffed at in my opinion.
fergus said:
Bert, hi. I'm not *that* upset about it, it was more the airing of a frustration!
well that's no fun then 
fergus said:
Whether suppliers like it or not (or whether it is 'moral' to do so) consumers will continue to shop around to get the best deal, even if that means people end up doing work that leads to nothing.
This happens all the time in terms of firms going through the competitive tender process. It's just part of life. I saved almost £4k on a watch shopping around like this. Not to be sniffed at in my opinion.
I agree entirely about the shopping around, that's why the consumer market is so good. There are lots of ways to shop around. People like Caterham have to get their balance right of how they make their money.This happens all the time in terms of firms going through the competitive tender process. It's just part of life. I saved almost £4k on a watch shopping around like this. Not to be sniffed at in my opinion.
Bert
I am a retail car spare supplier, I have a chain of large shops with a lot of stock.
In order to make a sale I have to keep several variations of the same product as each customer has different requirements, experience or lack of knowledge of the product on offer.
All of this cost money and my overheads are a little higher than some of the competition, as I have to make a certain mark up to survive I will, this is a balance of being fair and competitive, I survive on providing a range of product, being knowledgeable and giving great customer service.
As a retailer I wish people would tell me if my pricing is wrong in some cases so as I can consider adjusting the price rather than slagging me off to anyone who would listen.
There are other retailers out there, mainly small ones who have smaller shops and less overheads, prepared to slagg off the competition and selling the product far to cheaply, they In my eyes are doing themselves an injustice as they could still sell slightly cheaper than most, make more of a profit, increase there customer service, range of product and staff, luckily these are the people who come and go.
It is bad enough that we know have competition from the super markets who sell cheap crap, poor quality wipers, poor quality washer additives and shampoos, also leaving the customer to buy the wrong oil or antifreeze for there cars.
Because a lot of these product are the top selling lines and the bread and butter sales for myself and others, we are being killed off, when we are gone, you want an oil filter, the supermarkets will not have it, you will pay more and travel further to get it, maybe you will stay in all day waiting for it to arrive by post.
Caterham have to carry these parts so when you need them and mostly in a hurry, they have them, this cost money and partly accounts for the price.
We should support Caterham and have a better understanding of what they provide as a retailer and the massive stock holding they need to keep developing and keeping the 7 alive.
In order to make a sale I have to keep several variations of the same product as each customer has different requirements, experience or lack of knowledge of the product on offer.
All of this cost money and my overheads are a little higher than some of the competition, as I have to make a certain mark up to survive I will, this is a balance of being fair and competitive, I survive on providing a range of product, being knowledgeable and giving great customer service.
As a retailer I wish people would tell me if my pricing is wrong in some cases so as I can consider adjusting the price rather than slagging me off to anyone who would listen.
There are other retailers out there, mainly small ones who have smaller shops and less overheads, prepared to slagg off the competition and selling the product far to cheaply, they In my eyes are doing themselves an injustice as they could still sell slightly cheaper than most, make more of a profit, increase there customer service, range of product and staff, luckily these are the people who come and go.
It is bad enough that we know have competition from the super markets who sell cheap crap, poor quality wipers, poor quality washer additives and shampoos, also leaving the customer to buy the wrong oil or antifreeze for there cars.
Because a lot of these product are the top selling lines and the bread and butter sales for myself and others, we are being killed off, when we are gone, you want an oil filter, the supermarkets will not have it, you will pay more and travel further to get it, maybe you will stay in all day waiting for it to arrive by post.
Caterham have to carry these parts so when you need them and mostly in a hurry, they have them, this cost money and partly accounts for the price.
We should support Caterham and have a better understanding of what they provide as a retailer and the massive stock holding they need to keep developing and keeping the 7 alive.
freerange7 said:
I am a retail car spare supplier, I have a chain of large shops with a lot of stock.
In order to make a sale I have to keep several variations of the same product as each customer has different requirements, experience or lack of knowledge of the product on offer.
All of this cost money and my overheads are a little higher than some of the competition, as I have to make a certain mark up to survive I will, this is a balance of being fair and competitive, I survive on providing a range of product, being knowledgeable and giving great customer service.
As a retailer I wish people would tell me if my pricing is wrong in some cases so as I can consider adjusting the price rather than slagging me off to anyone who would listen.
There are other retailers out there, mainly small ones who have smaller shops and less overheads, prepared to slagg off the competition and selling the product far to cheaply, they In my eyes are doing themselves an injustice as they could still sell slightly cheaper than most, make more of a profit, increase there customer service, range of product and staff, luckily these are the people who come and go.
It is bad enough that we know have competition from the super markets who sell cheap crap, poor quality wipers, poor quality washer additives and shampoos, also leaving the customer to buy the wrong oil or antifreeze for there cars.
Because a lot of these product are the top selling lines and the bread and butter sales for myself and others, we are being killed off, when we are gone, you want an oil filter, the supermarkets will not have it, you will pay more and travel further to get it, maybe you will stay in all day waiting for it to arrive by post.
Caterham have to carry these parts so when you need them and mostly in a hurry, they have them, this cost money and partly accounts for the price.
We should support Caterham and have a better understanding of what they provide as a retailer and the massive stock holding they need to keep developing and keeping the 7 alive.
This is common sense. What we don't know is how much Caterham pay for there spares? Ecomonies of Scale apply only when they have volume. Does anyone believe Caterham buy anything in real volume compared to the main car manufacturers?! For example AP provide the seal kit to Ford and Caterham. Ford gets the item for a fraction of the cost that it goes to Caterham because it takes 10,000 at a time while caterham take 10! Caterham then have to hold it for a longer period of time before its sold. Caterham may or may not have detailed product knowledge in the stores department but it appears they have some nouse in the costing team. The simple equation is buy-in cost + overhead + volume + time (as a cost) / selling price (factor in what price the market will stand) = profit or loss. Multiply this by all the parts they sell and your parts dept makes a profit or costs you money. I have no affiliation with Caterham other then I love there product but don't suspect they are making a fortune but if they are Good luck to them!In order to make a sale I have to keep several variations of the same product as each customer has different requirements, experience or lack of knowledge of the product on offer.
All of this cost money and my overheads are a little higher than some of the competition, as I have to make a certain mark up to survive I will, this is a balance of being fair and competitive, I survive on providing a range of product, being knowledgeable and giving great customer service.
As a retailer I wish people would tell me if my pricing is wrong in some cases so as I can consider adjusting the price rather than slagging me off to anyone who would listen.
There are other retailers out there, mainly small ones who have smaller shops and less overheads, prepared to slagg off the competition and selling the product far to cheaply, they In my eyes are doing themselves an injustice as they could still sell slightly cheaper than most, make more of a profit, increase there customer service, range of product and staff, luckily these are the people who come and go.
It is bad enough that we know have competition from the super markets who sell cheap crap, poor quality wipers, poor quality washer additives and shampoos, also leaving the customer to buy the wrong oil or antifreeze for there cars.
Because a lot of these product are the top selling lines and the bread and butter sales for myself and others, we are being killed off, when we are gone, you want an oil filter, the supermarkets will not have it, you will pay more and travel further to get it, maybe you will stay in all day waiting for it to arrive by post.
Caterham have to carry these parts so when you need them and mostly in a hurry, they have them, this cost money and partly accounts for the price.
We should support Caterham and have a better understanding of what they provide as a retailer and the massive stock holding they need to keep developing and keeping the 7 alive.
Regards............Neil
Caterham are protective of their part numbers and relationships with suppliers, but as they have paid for tooling or development of many bits then they should. I know that this item is probably generic and not owned or licenced in any way by Caterham, but they need to make a profit and I don't begrudge them that.
I don't buy every little sprocket from them, but I find the way that some people go on a crusade to get the company to deal direct to save a few quid ridiculous. Constructive feedback to Caterham I am sure is appreciated and might elicit a response, but hurling insults around on a forum and raising your own blood pressure is possibly a bit pointless!
Caterham is still British owned and manufactured, if they are making profit from their parts operation then that means I will still be able to get the bits for my car or its successors for many years. You only have to ask owners of cars that were low volume and the manufacturer is no longer around what a b
d it is to get parts to see its good to give the maker some support if you can.
I don't buy every little sprocket from them, but I find the way that some people go on a crusade to get the company to deal direct to save a few quid ridiculous. Constructive feedback to Caterham I am sure is appreciated and might elicit a response, but hurling insults around on a forum and raising your own blood pressure is possibly a bit pointless!
Caterham is still British owned and manufactured, if they are making profit from their parts operation then that means I will still be able to get the bits for my car or its successors for many years. You only have to ask owners of cars that were low volume and the manufacturer is no longer around what a b
d it is to get parts to see its good to give the maker some support if you can. dino ferrana said:
Caterham are protective of their part numbers and relationships with suppliers, but as they have paid for tooling or development of many bits then they should. I know that this item is probably generic and not owned or licenced in any way by Caterham, but they need to make a profit and I don't begrudge them that.
I don't buy every little sprocket from them, but I find the way that some people go on a crusade to get the company to deal direct to save a few quid ridiculous. Constructive feedback to Caterham I am sure is appreciated and might elicit a response, but hurling insults around on a forum and raising your own blood pressure is possibly a bit pointless!
Caterham is still British owned and manufactured, if they are making profit from their parts operation then that means I will still be able to get the bits for my car or its successors for many years. You only have to ask owners of cars that were low volume and the manufacturer is no longer around what a bd it is to get parts to see its good to give the maker some support if you can.
I doubt Caterham have had any development involvement in APs products which they choose to employ? (certainly not the parts dept anyway)I don't buy every little sprocket from them, but I find the way that some people go on a crusade to get the company to deal direct to save a few quid ridiculous. Constructive feedback to Caterham I am sure is appreciated and might elicit a response, but hurling insults around on a forum and raising your own blood pressure is possibly a bit pointless!
Caterham is still British owned and manufactured, if they are making profit from their parts operation then that means I will still be able to get the bits for my car or its successors for many years. You only have to ask owners of cars that were low volume and the manufacturer is no longer around what a b
d it is to get parts to see its good to give the maker some support if you can. 
A few quid? How about saving almost £120 on a dry sump scavenge pump direct from the manufacturer. £120 saving for a phone call. How stupid I am....
Caterham is British. So what? We're not stuck in the 1950s here. Just because Caterham may not *stock* a part, does not mean it isn't made or available from elsewhere. Just because you would then be unable to order via a catalogue number does not mean the cars will end up off the road. A small bit of research will go a long way here.
PS My blood pressure is still normal, thanks.
it still feels fine to exercise choice. It's good to support the manufacturer, but if they get it wrong and overprice things then they'll lose support. There's no binding need to do it, it's the consumer's choice.
I have found on several occasions when I have gone for the non-manufacturer supplied part, I have got it slightly wrong and ended up with something that's incorrect in some respect. So by and large I get manufacturer supplied bits.
Bert
I have found on several occasions when I have gone for the non-manufacturer supplied part, I have got it slightly wrong and ended up with something that's incorrect in some respect. So by and large I get manufacturer supplied bits.
Bert
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