Caterham 21

Author
Discussion

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,536 posts

243 months

Saturday 21st March 2009
quotequote all
Gents,

Can anyone shed any light on the 21. Am I right in thinking it's basically a bone fide 7 with a full body?

Quite tempted by this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

There's gotta be a catch? smile

stripy7

806 posts

188 months

Saturday 21st March 2009
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Tread carefully, if its so pristine why did it need hammerite to the frame?

DKL

4,498 posts

223 months

Sunday 22nd March 2009
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All that glisters is not gold - or primrose apparently.
In all seriousness it will need work although it looks together - whether it is worth its current price plus the cost of anything afterwards is entirely up to the individual and these things are not always (ever?) fiscally based.
Go and see but look underneath.

BertBert

19,071 posts

212 months

Sunday 22nd March 2009
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was 1997 still in the bad years for powder coating? Where each chassis was liberally greased beforehand to make sure it stayed on for as little time as possible?

If it's the car it's commonly thought to be, was it not standing out in the weather for a long time? Does that count as being "in storage"?

"Built to compete with the Elise" indeed. More truthfully it was built and then the elise came out and the boys at Caterham said "oh dear" or words to that effect! Shame really. It had opening doors you know!

Bert

7 Sevens

658 posts

222 months

Monday 23rd March 2009
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You may want to have a read over here: http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=167022

Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Monday 23rd March 2009
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I have a decent ammount of information regarding this car and it was viewed by a former 21 owner when in came up on Ebay in October 2008.
It was bought by the chap who is now selling it after the ad was pulled from Ebay.

BertBert, yes, it was outside for some and quite possibly all of the 9 years it was on SORN. In the previous Ebay listing it was described as having several inches of water in the footwells. You can read what the current vendor has told me on the Blatchat thread listed by 7 Sevens. There is a link through to earlier discussion from Oct 2008

stripy7

806 posts

188 months

Monday 23rd March 2009
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FFS the fury of Blatchat.

Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Tuesday 24th March 2009
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No fury. As the owner of a 21 and working with Caterham21.com, my interest is in the cars themselves. I want to see this example in the ownership of someone who loves the car and ideally someone who wants to use it, occasionally or regularly. I am certainly concerned that the next owner doesn't end up with something that is shot underneath the nice new Hammerite, I would expect most petrolheads would feel the same way.
Another owner looked at the car in October and said:
"The car certainly looks good in the pictures. The body and interior probably
wasn't too difficult to clean up and polish, but that metalwork does worry me.
It was really badly rusted, especially at the rear, most of the powder coating
had peeled off and the metal had been exposed to the elements for several
years whilst it was stored outside, with 6" of water slopping around in it.
Things like the brake calipers and discs are a bit worrying too. In reality,
there was nothing that couldn't have been covered up, but the integrity of the metal must have been weakened by the amount of rust."
I think it is fair that potential owners know that it was left outside for about 9 yeras with no more than partial cover with a tarpaulin.

If you feel that it is unfair of me to inform people of the known history of the car then that is up to you.

Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Tuesday 24th March 2009
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And Chris (original poster). Yes, geniune Caterham 21. Yes, Genuine mileage.
There will be nothing wrong with the bodywork and the engine is the original. Leatherwork has come up a treat.
If you are serious about this go to www.caterham21.com and make contact with the informal owners group. Both David (who owns one of the oringinal press cars or I (who owns the other) can help.

Edited by Golf Juliet Tang on Tuesday 24th March 13:19

paulejacobs

121 posts

246 months

Tuesday 24th March 2009
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Someone is going to end up paying a lot of money for this 21 because of the low mileage and the way it has been marketed as a collectors item, so whilst the mileage is undoubtedly correct, it is better to find out now that it was in less than pristine condition for many years, whilst outside exposed to all the elements, than be taken in thinking it is a pristine and pampered unused gem. Photos of the before condition can be available to serious bidders.

The vendor is making a good profit [and there is nothing wrong with that], out of this sale, lets hope it's not at the expense of an ignorant buyer, the Caterham world is a small one after all.

stripy7

806 posts

188 months

Tuesday 24th March 2009
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Ok soz GJT - a bit harsh, actually wasnt directed at you in the slightest -sent you an explanatory pm.

edit; No I havent -you cant receive them.

Edited by stripy7 on Tuesday 24th March 20:56

Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Wednesday 25th March 2009
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Hi Stripy
No problem, not worried.
Don't know about PMs. I'll look through my profile...

OK, done/changed that (now)

Edited by Golf Juliet Tang on Wednesday 25th March 22:08

DKL

4,498 posts

223 months

Thursday 26th March 2009
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So has it sold yet? Struggling with ebay currently.

BertBert

19,071 posts

212 months

Friday 27th March 2009
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3 1/2 days to go and up to 10k
Bert

Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Saturday 28th March 2009
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More on the chassis
[quote]Frankly though, the chassis was so bad in places, especially around the back, that I cannot see how it has been repaired with no welding. I do indeed haver pictures taken last autumn, and there is clearly at least one tube with large rust holes in it, and many more with deep pitted, rusty areas.
[/quote]
The result of spending along time ignored in the Tiverton weather.

Steve-B

710 posts

283 months

Saturday 28th March 2009
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guys if there's substantial docos that the car is suspect, you should contact the FleaBay moderators to review. that would do the greatest service to the community as a whole

Edited by Steve-B on Saturday 28th March 22:36

paulejacobs

121 posts

246 months

Sunday 29th March 2009
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No, it's not that the car is either suspect or incorrectly described. But it did have a very rusty chassis, possibly not as bad as I posted earlier, with holes in the rear part of the chassis tubes, but very badly pitted in several places, with powder coating falling off in sheets. The vendor has wire brushed these numerous areas back yo metal and painted them with an anti rust paint and a thin coat of black paint, the pitting is still visible through the paint. In my opinion, he has done nothing that many people would not do, in other words tidied the car up and presented it in its' best light, it is just that although there is no doubt it has done a genuine 1,200 miles, it is not in the condition that many would assume a car with this mileage would be in, due to neglect by a previous owner.

It shows the importance of viewing the car to ascertain the condition and not making any assumptions. It is, in my opinion worth the reserve now disclosed, but I certainly wouldn't think of paying more for it - others may and that is their prerogative, but they must not be too disappointed when they see what they have bought. I think the vendor is being honest but he is selling it, and it is up to the buyer to ask the right questions, or to use the legal jargon - 'let the buyer beware'.

stripy7

806 posts

188 months

Monday 30th March 2009
quotequote all
Golf Juliet Tang said:
Hi Stripy
No problem, not worried.
Don't know about PMs. I'll look through my profile...

OK, done/changed that (now)

Edited by Golf Juliet Tang on Wednesday 25th March 22:08
I wont bore you/wash dirty laundry after all.

Sam_68

9,939 posts

246 months

Wednesday 5th August 2009
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Golf Juliet Tang

87 posts

188 months

Wednesday 5th August 2009
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Yes, thats for the heads up.
It has also been noted across on Blatchat and on Caterham21.com
The previous owner suggested he thought it would disappear into "a collection". It looks like someone else is just a trader not an enthusiast.
Condition: something like is was before...