noob questions
Discussion
Mprning all.
As a potential caterham owner, I'm currently exploring the many and varied options available.
To say its confusing is an understatement.
I think, following my research, a road sport 150 will do the trick.
Now, do I buy it built and ready to go from the factory, buy a starter kit and build it myself, or just buy a used car??
I actually quite like the idea of building another car, but caterham are trying to put me off the idea by saying a starter kit car will never be worth the same a factory car. Will the residual be THAT much duffrent?
Am due to visit CC soon and try a few cars for size etc.
Any advice greatly received!
Oh, to add, the car will be a toy for fast road and occasional track days.
As a potential caterham owner, I'm currently exploring the many and varied options available.
To say its confusing is an understatement.
I think, following my research, a road sport 150 will do the trick.
Now, do I buy it built and ready to go from the factory, buy a starter kit and build it myself, or just buy a used car??
I actually quite like the idea of building another car, but caterham are trying to put me off the idea by saying a starter kit car will never be worth the same a factory car. Will the residual be THAT much duffrent?
Am due to visit CC soon and try a few cars for size etc.
Any advice greatly received!
Oh, to add, the car will be a toy for fast road and occasional track days.
I remember when i bought my first car and it can get a little confusing!
I think the confusion here has come from you using the term "starter kit" - that is a very different animal to a "kit".
As i understand it, there are 3 ways to buy a new caterham:
1. Starter Kit - the bare minimum - buying chassis, component and so on as you need them, possibly using bits you already have from other cars (engine etc). Pros: you can spread the cost. Cons: As Caterham point out, they don't hold their value and often are registered on a "q" plate if old parts have been used. I am sure i've read this route actually work out more expensive too. Usually a long term project.
2. Kit - a new car in a box - everything you need comes at once and you just assemble it and get it registered. This is how i bought my first Caterham. Pros: Cheaper than factory build, great fun to build. Cons: You need some spare time and an understanding missus!. Worth noting, Kit built cars don't seem to differ in value from factory built cars - i'm not sure if it is the same now but my car was entitled to a free factory check over to make sure muggins here had built it properly
3. Factory built - does what it says on the tin - it is a "turn key" car. Pros: Least effort to get the car, you can drive it straight away. Cons: it is a little bit more expensive.
To give you an idea, I built my first Caterham (a Roadsport) and had a Factory built car the second time around. I think i would have built a kit again, but didn't have the time or garage space at the time.
I am sure you'll have a much clarer idea once you have been in to Caterham - it always helps to visualize the different options etc. (i often wonder if that is why it can be a bit confusing - all the cars look so similar!)
Good luck with your hunt!
Cheers,
Mick
I think the confusion here has come from you using the term "starter kit" - that is a very different animal to a "kit".
As i understand it, there are 3 ways to buy a new caterham:
1. Starter Kit - the bare minimum - buying chassis, component and so on as you need them, possibly using bits you already have from other cars (engine etc). Pros: you can spread the cost. Cons: As Caterham point out, they don't hold their value and often are registered on a "q" plate if old parts have been used. I am sure i've read this route actually work out more expensive too. Usually a long term project.
2. Kit - a new car in a box - everything you need comes at once and you just assemble it and get it registered. This is how i bought my first Caterham. Pros: Cheaper than factory build, great fun to build. Cons: You need some spare time and an understanding missus!. Worth noting, Kit built cars don't seem to differ in value from factory built cars - i'm not sure if it is the same now but my car was entitled to a free factory check over to make sure muggins here had built it properly
3. Factory built - does what it says on the tin - it is a "turn key" car. Pros: Least effort to get the car, you can drive it straight away. Cons: it is a little bit more expensive.
To give you an idea, I built my first Caterham (a Roadsport) and had a Factory built car the second time around. I think i would have built a kit again, but didn't have the time or garage space at the time.
I am sure you'll have a much clarer idea once you have been in to Caterham - it always helps to visualize the different options etc. (i often wonder if that is why it can be a bit confusing - all the cars look so similar!)
Good luck with your hunt!
Cheers,
Mick
Edited by atom-ick on Friday 14th August 12:05
You need to ask yourself what you want from the acquisition process, which is different from the ownership experience.
Only you can answer whether you want:
New or used: the same choice really as with any car
If new, do you want to build or not.
If build do you want to buy the full kit (CKD I believe it was/is called), or a starter kit and acquire the parts.
If starter kit, then people who do it are generally expecting to source parts from places other than caterham.
I'm interested as to why you have settled on the roadsport 150. Share your logic with us and we'll (pick holes in it) give constructive help and advice!
Bert
Only you can answer whether you want:
New or used: the same choice really as with any car
If new, do you want to build or not.
If build do you want to buy the full kit (CKD I believe it was/is called), or a starter kit and acquire the parts.
If starter kit, then people who do it are generally expecting to source parts from places other than caterham.
I'm interested as to why you have settled on the roadsport 150. Share your logic with us and we'll (pick holes in it) give constructive help and advice!
Bert
BertBert said:
New or used: the same choice really as with any car
If new, do you want to build or not.
The part of me that enjoys buidling stuff says yes, but the part that has to deal with the IVA bullshyte says no.If new, do you want to build or not.
BertBert said:
If build do you want to buy the full kit (CKD I believe it was/is called), or a starter kit and acquire the parts.
If starter kit, then people who do it are generally expecting to source parts from places other than caterham.
The dripfeed payment system does have its advantages, and Im sure some equal quality components are cheaper than Caterhams version....If starter kit, then people who do it are generally expecting to source parts from places other than caterham.
BertBert said:
I'm interested as to why you have settled on the roadsport 150. Share your logic with us and we'll (pick holes in it) give constructive help and advice!
Bert
Wouldnt 100% say settled, but after a 20 minute chat with CC,it seems to fit into my expectations.Bert
BUT, to me, choosing a version is one of the hardest things, because if you tick different boxes, they can all be the same car anyway.
I said to the guy I spoke to that I had R400 tastes and Robin Hood 2B money, and I guess I am trying to get into a Cat for the least amount of dollar.
However, Ive not yet ever owned a brand new car, and that is quite tempting too....
So, tell me what Im doing wrong and what I *should* be buying.
In my experience...
I have bought several 2nd hand and 1 CKD caterham
The build experience was superb, can't recommend it enough. I was happy though with the complete kit. I'm just not interested in farting about to source alternative parts. They often don't quite work out how you expect and give you more problems to resolve. But for some (cue Fergus) that's fine.
If you want a new car, then if you have any inclination to build and you're not mechanically inept, go for it.
I prefer used caterhams. When I had a new one, it was pristine and I was afraid of ruining the newness. With a used car, it's not going to be immaculate and I'm more comfortable with using and abusing it (in the nicest possible way). I think you get much better vfm with used caterhams.
I am unsure about the Sigma and the bifurcation (ooh er) in the current product range. In the k-series days you could start with a boggo 1.6k and "easily" upgrade to end up with 1600/190 or 1800/230 or 1900/250. The sigma is nowhere near as easy to stepwise upgrade. The bigger horses are provided by the duratech.
Not sure any of that is of any use at all.
Go to the showroom and drive some though!
BErt
I have bought several 2nd hand and 1 CKD caterham
The build experience was superb, can't recommend it enough. I was happy though with the complete kit. I'm just not interested in farting about to source alternative parts. They often don't quite work out how you expect and give you more problems to resolve. But for some (cue Fergus
) that's fine.If you want a new car, then if you have any inclination to build and you're not mechanically inept, go for it.
I prefer used caterhams. When I had a new one, it was pristine and I was afraid of ruining the newness. With a used car, it's not going to be immaculate and I'm more comfortable with using and abusing it (in the nicest possible way). I think you get much better vfm with used caterhams.
I am unsure about the Sigma and the bifurcation (ooh er) in the current product range. In the k-series days you could start with a boggo 1.6k and "easily" upgrade to end up with 1600/190 or 1800/230 or 1900/250. The sigma is nowhere near as easy to stepwise upgrade. The bigger horses are provided by the duratech.
Not sure any of that is of any use at all.
Go to the showroom and drive some though!
BErt
Personal choice, with my first car 11 years ago, I built it. Second one, I wanted to use it for track days, so bought used, that someone else had spent loads of money on, and then I don't get too stressed when on the track incase something goes wrong. I know share the car with my sone on track days, so something will happen one day, which would break my heart if it was new
Furyous,
If you want "Bang for Buck", then buy a used car (you can always take it apart and reassemble it if you wish!)
If you are concerned about resale value, then a starter kit is not the way to go, unless you use all genuine caterham parts (which will then cost more than buying a complete kit).
I often think that it must be very frustrating buying it "drip feed" and assembling it slowly. There are not like many kits. there is really not that much to do if you compare it with many kits. I assembled my own car taking 65hours over a ten day period.
If you were competant and confident, then I'd guess that you could assemble a starter car with R400 perfomance, for less than R400 money. However, at the point of resale it will not be an R400, but a Caterham with a pile of none standard parts, and likely to be worth a lot less than a standard spec.ed car.
I would suggest that the 150 spec is quite expensive (£2K for 25bhp), and £2,630.00 is now a lot more than the 1500 that I paid to upgrade from the 5 to 6 speed box.
As I scan over the options list I think it makes much more financial sence to buy used rather than build.
If you want "Bang for Buck", then buy a used car (you can always take it apart and reassemble it if you wish!)
If you are concerned about resale value, then a starter kit is not the way to go, unless you use all genuine caterham parts (which will then cost more than buying a complete kit).
I often think that it must be very frustrating buying it "drip feed" and assembling it slowly. There are not like many kits. there is really not that much to do if you compare it with many kits. I assembled my own car taking 65hours over a ten day period.
If you were competant and confident, then I'd guess that you could assemble a starter car with R400 perfomance, for less than R400 money. However, at the point of resale it will not be an R400, but a Caterham with a pile of none standard parts, and likely to be worth a lot less than a standard spec.ed car.
I would suggest that the 150 spec is quite expensive (£2K for 25bhp), and £2,630.00 is now a lot more than the 1500 that I paid to upgrade from the 5 to 6 speed box.
As I scan over the options list I think it makes much more financial sence to buy used rather than build.
I intended to go the starter kit route then started to work out how much it was going to cost to get a working car. About another £2,500 on top of the CKD route of a 125 Roadsport 
I went to the Midlands showroom and the starter kit failed into insignificance, what I decided I needed was the whole thing in one go and the assurance that that's what I would get. Easy build? Well easy enough with a little savvy and lets face it there aren't too many cars you can build yourself. The satisfaction of doing it is second to none.
I put mine through SVA on my own. Can't think that IVA can be that much different and if you build the car right you WILL get through first go. The boys and girls you want to worry about are those at the DVLA, not because they are difficult but simply because they move at a very slow pace. I needed to prompt them back into action after a six 6 week wait!
If I buy another I may go the secondhand route but if you can build at least one of your own, when it comes to tinkering you know every last nut and bolt.
What ever way you do it its ace.... Enjoy.
Andy
I went to the Midlands showroom and the starter kit failed into insignificance, what I decided I needed was the whole thing in one go and the assurance that that's what I would get. Easy build? Well easy enough with a little savvy and lets face it there aren't too many cars you can build yourself. The satisfaction of doing it is second to none.
I put mine through SVA on my own. Can't think that IVA can be that much different and if you build the car right you WILL get through first go. The boys and girls you want to worry about are those at the DVLA, not because they are difficult but simply because they move at a very slow pace. I needed to prompt them back into action after a six 6 week wait!
If I buy another I may go the secondhand route but if you can build at least one of your own, when it comes to tinkering you know every last nut and bolt.
What ever way you do it its ace.... Enjoy.
Andy
"Sooooooooooo, with that in mind, what 7 you would you buy for around £10-12k and why ?"
You need to give us a few clues.
What do you want to use the car for? Touring? Short quick blats? Track days? Competition of some sort (sprints, hillclimbs, racing?)
Are you a polisher, or more after a better spec for the money?
You need to give us a few clues.
What do you want to use the car for? Touring? Short quick blats? Track days? Competition of some sort (sprints, hillclimbs, racing?)
Are you a polisher, or more after a better spec for the money?
I bought both my sevens secondhand. New is nice but the cost of getting the car you want soon goes through the roof when you start to add up the options. My little 1400 Supersport with 6 speed box would now cost over 20K as a kit and almost 23K as a factory build! The only Caterham that offers reasonable value for money is the bread and butter classic. 13K for the kit (+ delivery, SVA and road fund licence).
Best of luck in whatever you choose.
Best of luck in whatever you choose.
Red Seven said:
You need to give us a few clues.
What do you want to use the car for? Touring? Short quick blats? Track days? Competition of some sort (sprints, hillclimbs, racing?)
Are you a polisher, or more after a better spec for the money?
Definately not a polisher.What do you want to use the car for? Touring? Short quick blats? Track days? Competition of some sort (sprints, hillclimbs, racing?)
Are you a polisher, or more after a better spec for the money?
Breakfast runs, runs out to many race tracks as Im a keen 'Togger.
I see theres a localish group to me as well, Penn7's, so maybe a bit of social as well.
Basically, fast road use with maybe an occasional track day.
Do come along to Penn Sevens. You may have found the website http://penn.lowflying.co.uk/
Great bunch of people.
Next meeting is 29 August, get to The Squirrel Penn Street any time between noon and 2pm and there will be lots of people there, numbers dwindle after that.
Lots of different spec. cars there, so you can understand different owners differing experiences.
Oh yes and join The Club! http://www.lotussevenclub.com/ ans http://www.blatchat.com/
Great bunch of people.
Next meeting is 29 August, get to The Squirrel Penn Street any time between noon and 2pm and there will be lots of people there, numbers dwindle after that.
Lots of different spec. cars there, so you can understand different owners differing experiences.
Oh yes and join The Club! http://www.lotussevenclub.com/ ans http://www.blatchat.com/
At the risk of looking like shameless advertiser, I bought my car with exactly that usage in mind. I knew that I was going to do quite a lot of distance miles and that the n-th degree of speed was not critical. With that in mind, a 1.4SS with a 5 speed box was ideal. It gave me a reasonable route into k-series, de-dion ownership, with an easy and cheap upgrade route to 148bhp (with a short 1.8 block swap) in the future, which is well doccumented online. As it happens I never got round to fitting the cage or long manifold exhaust and taking it on track, so it has remained pretty much stock. I reckon that it is in a similar performance ball park to an elise, but with £160 per year insurance and 36mpg! If you think that it ticks the boxes, you would even have £2500 to spend on upgrades from your £12k!!!
Furyous said:
Sooooooooooo, with that in mind, what 7 you would you buy for around £10-12k and why ?
Ex roadsport A, because the kit count for the money is staggering. The number of road cars with a K-Series, a 6-speed box, a limited slip diff, short ratio box etc. for that sort of money is next to zero. The most likely way to get that sort of spec 'off the shelf' is a Superlight at £14k+.Furyous said:
Chris, that sounds like a good idea.
What's the HP on one?
Would a 6 speed not make it a bit busy for the road?
What's the sp on putting one on the road?
The old Roadsport A were a nominal 138BHPWhat's the HP on one?
Would a 6 speed not make it a bit busy for the road?
What's the sp on putting one on the road?
Yes, the 6 speed is a little busy (especially with the 3.9 diff that an RSA would have) but it's not a problem.
All RSA's needed to be road legal for the championship.
Don't confuse the old RSA with the current RSA. The current RSA's are 120bhp, five speed, open diff.
The old RSA had 138bhp supersport engines, 6 speed, LSD. Whilst not mandatory, many old RSA's also had drysump.
Furyous said:
Chris, that sounds like a good idea.
What's the HP on one?
Would a 6 speed not make it a bit busy for the road?
What's the sp on putting one on the road?
I think it's covered pretty well above, but I would add I personally found the combination of revvy 1.6 K-Series (the 1.8 is a little less frenetic) and 6-speed CR box was an ideal match. They suit each other perfectly, but, yes, it's not the most civilised motorway car. Some might argue motorways aren't really a Caterham forte either way though, and for a 'weekends and evenings car' I rapidly decided which one I wanted.What's the HP on one?
Would a 6 speed not make it a bit busy for the road?
What's the sp on putting one on the road?
Many of the old RSAs (like mine) have been converted already, so someone else has already taken that hit for you. I'm not sure what's involved in converting a recent one, but I don't think it's huge - Caterham should be able to supply all the IVA bits. You might argue the added goodies on the older cars make a stronger case for buying an old RSA than a new one though.
If an ex-track car does appeal Jonny at Bookatrack might be a good person to speak to - no connection, but he was helpful when I was looking and I believe he has some (Superlights?) about to be pensioned off.
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