How to drive an R500 D properly...
Discussion
Armchair schey. Sweet.
Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
pw75 said:
Armchair schey. Sweet.
Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
Well, to be honest, a better acid test would be to post up faster Caterham Ring laps. Can you find any? No? Well what doe that tell you? I'm not saying the guy is driving the car to its max potential, but for some random amateur who's having fun in a non race environment, the laps are great. And what's wrong with some gratuitous sideways action!!! That's what Caterhams are for - smiles per mile. They just can't be beaten.Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
James.S said:
What would those negative posters know about pedalling a caterham quickly anyhow, yer right, armchair bloody Schumachers the lot of 'em!
I'm joining you guys, he's a great driver, must be cos he has got it going sideways and the Stig got one sideways aswell, and that lap on TV wasn't edited for effect at all cos TG aint like that, so if he's doing what the stig did he's got to be a god
The commitment to get the car sideways (accidental or not) at the points where he did requires large balls.
Tell us about your 'Ring experience (not your UK circuit racing experience)?
pw75 said:
Armchair schey. Sweet.
Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
Agreed, but the Rad is a slightly different kettle of fish. The Rad guys went there in a (technically) road legal SR8 with 460hp with Verge, a professional driver, in the hope of beating the 'production' car lap record....Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
I think any attempt to get close to a 7.30 BTG time in an R500D would result in disaster for 99% of people, including those who may race in various UK series, who consider themselves able to 'commit' to a corner.... Unless you're trying to achieve a specific aim (like Michael Vergers), driving at more than 90% committment on the Ring can be a very dangerous pursuit - notwithstanding the fact that the video was shot on a closed circuit Pistenclub trackday)...
There are those that have driven the 'Ring, and those that comment on others' driving at the 'Ring, *sometimes* with nothing upon which to base their comments?
Edited by fergus on Thursday 29th October 13:18
h to Slam about it.fergus said:
James.S said:
James, having almost 1000 laps of the Ring under my belt, the laps in the video are committed. I suspect that even one of the Euro Masters CSR champions may not be as quick despite being able to 'pedal their car quickly'. (Mr. Hoffman excluded, as he's a local to the Ring!)
The commitment to get the car sideways (accidental or not) at the points where he did requires large balls.
Tell us about your 'Ring experience (not your UK circuit racing experience)?
Don't undestand what sideways and commitment have to do with one another. Are you suggesting that sideways shows commitment?
Never been round the 'ring, have managed to work out that it is twisty bits of tarmac joined by staight bits of tarmac........just like any other circuit. Am I missing something?
Edited by James.S on Thursday 29th October 14:59
James.S said:
fergus said:
James.S said:
James, having almost 1000 laps of the Ring under my belt, the laps in the video are committed. I suspect that even one of the Euro Masters CSR champions may not be as quick despite being able to 'pedal their car quickly'. (Mr. Hoffman excluded, as he's a local to the Ring!)
The commitment to get the car sideways (accidental or not) at the points where he did requires large balls.
Tell us about your 'Ring experience (not your UK circuit racing experience)?
Don't undestand what sideways and commitment have to do with one another. Are you suggesting that sideways shows commitment?
Never been round the 'ring, have managed to work out that it is twisty bits of tarmac joined by staight bits of tarmac........just like any other circuit. Am I missing something?
Sideways and commitment are not related, however, getting the power down when still in the Karussel to get the rear end step out (on the heavily cambered banking) is pushing on a fair bit. Also having the rear step out at circa 145mph over a bump is also pushing on a bit. Google "Schwedencreuz" and see what people say about this 'bend'. Notice that Verge in the SR8 Rad video, whilst 'showing commitment', dropped a gear and braked over here, despite his aero....
I think until you've been there and can speak from experience, then yes, you are missing the point here. Go there, and experience the camber changes, the surface irregularities and the lack of run off, then let us know how you got on....
My OP was just putting the point accross that I can't see why this was How to drive an R500D, after watching it again i think the straight bits are the only thing he does right. loads of time lost to understeer, powering up way to early, missed gears (although i will give him a little leaway here), etc etc......
you feel it is the way to drive so we will agree to differ.
and yeah, i will work my way round to thr Ring eventually so we will see.
James.S said:
you feel it is the way to drive so we will agree to differ.
I agree with you - the initial comment was more related to the way he was 'ragging' his car, rather than p1ssing about with it on the road and polishing it. i.e. driving it in the style in which the makers intended! Granted, his technical driving skills, and hence circuit times could be improved a bit, but full marks for effort!James.S said:
Your on Simon.....i had just googled RMA to look at prices.....GLOL
go on a public day, rather than on a closed trackday and cut your teeth properly, whilst getting buzzed by locals in Opal Kaddetts and GT3s and superbikes whilst you're still learning your way around. Only 13 odd miles to learn and 140 odd corners! fergus said:
Go on a public day, rather than on a closed trackday and cut your teeth properly, whilst getting buzzed by locals in Opal Kaddetts and GT3s and superbikes whilst you're still learning your way around. Only 13 odd miles to learn and 140 odd corners!
Strangely, while my 968 was overtaken by virtually everything else on 4 wheels (including diesels and the odd estate) on my trip to the ring last year, I saw very few commited motorcyclists. Usually they were riding rather gingerly and I was overtaking them, which can be difficult, particularly when there's a group of them snaking right from one side of the track to the other.
On reflection it was probably natural selection. I dare say a fair few commited bikers start the lap, but I didn't see many finish one...
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 29th October 17:18
fergus said:
pw75 said:
Armchair schey. Sweet.
Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
Agreed, but the Rad is a slightly different kettle of fish. The Rad guys went there in a (technically) road legal SR8 with 460hp with Verge, a professional driver, in the hope of beating the 'production' car lap record....Ok lets get this straight. There are tonnes of Caterham laps up on you tube posted by r300/400/500 who are quick in a straight line and that's about it. In comparison this guy is committed, but fact is he is not committed in comparison to what the car is capable of.
Go and look at the new radical lap record if you want to see comitted.
I think any attempt to get close to a 7.30 BTG time in an R500D would result in disaster for 99% of people, including those who may race in various UK series, who consider themselves able to 'commit' to a corner.... Unless you're trying to achieve a specific aim (like Michael Vergers), driving at more than 90% committment on the Ring can be a very dangerous pursuit - notwithstanding the fact that the video was shot on a closed circuit Pistenclub trackday)...
There are those that have driven the 'Ring, and those that comment on others' driving at the 'Ring, *sometimes* with nothing upon which to base their comments?
Edited by fergus on Thursday 29th October 13:18
I've not driven the ring, but I have watched numerous videos of people driving the ring well (ie vergers), and I've watched plenty of people driving fast caterhams (not so well). Put the two together and you would indeed have driving it properly but to be honest we are arguing over semantics because you are right, compared with 95% of caterham drivers at the ring and elsewhere you could indeed argue it as driving it properly.
To make claims on what 99% of people (clubman racers or otherwise) may be able to achieve round there is nonsense though.
pw75 said:
To make claims on what 99% of people (clubman racers or otherwise) may be able to achieve round there is nonsense
pw75 said:
...I've not driven the ring
..... Wait until you've driven there and then see how difficult it is to get within the realm of a ~ 7.30 BTG time. I suspect most, even in an R500D would not be able to manage it. I think you'd be surprised how much commitment is needed to do this. What may appear quick in a video (i.e. perhaps smoother style and better lines) is different to what is actually quick versus the clock...
For an example of this, see if you can see Richard Ince's 8 odd year old clip of his yellow R500K at the Ring. This is smoother, but slower...
Edited by fergus on Thursday 29th October 17:26
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