How to drive an R500 D properly...
Discussion
James.S said:
fergus said:
James.S said:
Please enlighten me as to why things change in the Eifel mountains.......and please don't say odd cambers, lack of run off and blid corners as most circuits have this.
Incidentally the comment about academy/roadsport racers is a little uncalled for, most are very capable and commited to developing further than a trackday warrior........ but you probably noticed that at Rockingham.
As aluded to below, I can't think of many circuits where the 3rd corner is a function of the 1st corner in terms of exit speed?Incidentally the comment about academy/roadsport racers is a little uncalled for, most are very capable and commited to developing further than a trackday warrior........ but you probably noticed that at Rockingham.
Didn't get the Rockingham comment? Care to expand?
'Tripe' explained: If you screw up the first corner in a sequence of corners, it throws you off line for the second, which then means you exit speed is compromised for the third, hence lowering the overall exit speed for the complex.
Simple enough for you? Ask Staurt if you can't comprehend this.
Edited by fergus on Friday 6th November 17:15
I'll try again - the principles of driving a quick lap of a circuit apply to the nordshleife just the same as anywhere else. Every corner has an optimal exit, whether that is defined by a kerb, wall or entry to the following corner makes no difference - get it wrong, and it will cost you time. Getting 3 consecutive corners right doesn't require a different driving style, if you're s
t, you'll be st anywhere - it just might not show as much on some circuits
t, you'll be st anywhere - it just might not show as much on some circuitsfergus said:
James.S said:
fergus said:
James.S said:
Please enlighten me as to why things change in the Eifel mountains.......and please don't say odd cambers, lack of run off and blid corners as most circuits have this.
Incidentally the comment about academy/roadsport racers is a little uncalled for, most are very capable and commited to developing further than a trackday warrior........ but you probably noticed that at Rockingham.
As aluded to below, I can't think of many circuits where the 3rd corner is a function of the 1st corner in terms of exit speed?Incidentally the comment about academy/roadsport racers is a little uncalled for, most are very capable and commited to developing further than a trackday warrior........ but you probably noticed that at Rockingham.
Didn't get the Rockingham comment? Care to expand?
'Tripe' explained: If you screw up the first corner in a sequence of corners, it throws you off line for the second, which then means you exit speed is compromised for the third, hence lowering the overall exit speed for the complex.
Simple enough for you? Ask Staurt if you can't comprehend this.
Edited by fergus on Friday 6th November 17:15
Tripe - so the ground breaking discovery you have made on the 1000 plus laps of the 'Ring is that if you get one of the twisty bits wrong it compromises your lap time......well i never.
Edited by James.S on Saturday 7th November 07:33
James.S said:
fergus said:
sfaulds said:
Bullst - it's just a circuit ffs. The principles of driving round it quickly are exactly the same as at any other circuit, there's just more of it to learn and more things to hit if you fk up. If you want to ban people from commenting on it, I'd do it on the grounds that no-one (as far as I'm aware) on this thread has driven *that* car - it could be an evil-handling sack of st you'd be scared of crossing the carpark in for all we know.
Those who are suggesting "it's just another circuit" seem to be the ones who have no experience of the place? t - it's just a circuit ffs. The principles of driving round it quickly are exactly the same as at any other circuit, there's just more of it to learn and more things to hit if you fk up. If you want to ban people from commenting on it, I'd do it on the grounds that no-one (as far as I'm aware) on this thread has driven *that* car - it could be an evil-handling sack of st you'd be scared of crossing the carpark in for all we know.
No commentary 'bans' coming from my direction, only those where people are making strong comments based upon no real experience.....Again, for those that know the circuit, I think the car handles OK, other than where it's thrown off line by some of the bumps and cambers. But you knew that already, right?
Please enlighten me as to why things change in the Eifel mountains.......and please don't say odd cambers, lack of run off and blid corners as most circuits have this.
Incidentally the comment about academy/roadsport racers not being able to watch and comment on a drivers ability is spurious, most are very capable and commited to developing further than a trackday warrior........ but you probably noticed that at Rockingham.
Edited by James.S on Friday 6th November 17:09
Here's a crazy example... Laser quest (where you run round in a dark room and fire pretend lasers at each other), paintball and real war (iraq, vietnam etc).
In theory these are all the same, just point and shoot but in reality they are much different. The kid who is amazingly quick at laser quest with lightning fast reflexes and phenomenal aim will not necessarily be as good at paintball or real gun fighting as the fear of getting hurt or even death will affect and compromise his ability to react quickly and aim his rifle.
To say that its 'just another circuit' when it has 10 times the amount of corners as any other track is just plain ignorant.
Bert, I don't know how the surface on British circuits are, but the tracks I've driven on the mainland (Netherlands, Belgium, France), usually have the same surface all way round the track. You usually know where it is less grippy (because of overhanging trees for instance) and it's easy to remember where a single bump is on the track.
Imho the Ring is different. Much longer, many more corners to take, a variety of surfaces and bumps everywhere. It's simply more difficult to learn which lines you should drive. There is also very little space for mistakes and it can take a while before medics are on the spot to help you, if you make an unfortunate mistake. Personally I don't like the Ring that much because the numerous self proclaimed driving Gods who think everyone should make way for them.
I know you can get hurt on a track, but so far, I've never seen someone got badly hurt or even die on a trackday. I've seen it all at the Ring, while I only go there a couple of times a year. I respect the Italian his effort as I would never drive that fast on the Ring without a full cage. One mistake and you're in the barriers. You'll need some luck in a Caterham not to get your head looking like a smashed pumpkin.
I don't know if anyone knows this, but please take notice it's a public toll road. Albeit a special one. Don't be surprised if you end up behind bars for a while when you crash into someone badly.
Hope my English is clear enough to make my point. I leave you guys arguing again.
Imho the Ring is different. Much longer, many more corners to take, a variety of surfaces and bumps everywhere. It's simply more difficult to learn which lines you should drive. There is also very little space for mistakes and it can take a while before medics are on the spot to help you, if you make an unfortunate mistake. Personally I don't like the Ring that much because the numerous self proclaimed driving Gods who think everyone should make way for them.
I know you can get hurt on a track, but so far, I've never seen someone got badly hurt or even die on a trackday. I've seen it all at the Ring, while I only go there a couple of times a year. I respect the Italian his effort as I would never drive that fast on the Ring without a full cage. One mistake and you're in the barriers. You'll need some luck in a Caterham not to get your head looking like a smashed pumpkin.
I don't know if anyone knows this, but please take notice it's a public toll road. Albeit a special one. Don't be surprised if you end up behind bars for a while when you crash into someone badly.
Hope my English is clear enough to make my point. I leave you guys arguing again.
BertBert said:
Nerra said:
To say that its 'just another circuit' when it has 10 times the amount of corners as any other track is just plain ignorant.
I'm a bit confused by the whole war analogy. Could you explain why 10 times the number of corners makes it different in driver/track terms?Bert
The fact that there are 10 times the amount of corners makes it harder to memorize the track and remember exactly whats coming next. In simpler terms, your mum sends you down to the shop to buy some groceries, if she asks you to buy 17 items you might just be able to memorize them in order to not write a list, if she gave you 170 items to buy then you would probably struggle to memorize them all (in order too).
I have a 12 mile back road journey to work and I don't find it particularly difficult to remember where each corner and bump is after traversing it twice a day for 3 months. If I can learn a 3 mile track I've never been to in a day and half's testing well enough to be half a second off of seasoned pro drivers, then I don't see how I couldn't learn the ring in a couple of weeks there, but that's not the argument.
I don't change my driving style for any circuit in the UK, however bumpy or smooth it is, or how much runoff it has so why would the ring be any different? Consequently, I've never seen a quick driver in a fast Caterham drive like that on a UK circuit, only track day warriors over-driving it, or pack proppers with all the gear and no idea.
Yet again, I return to my original statement of 'he's clearly got some bottle, but meh'
I don't change my driving style for any circuit in the UK, however bumpy or smooth it is, or how much runoff it has so why would the ring be any different? Consequently, I've never seen a quick driver in a fast Caterham drive like that on a UK circuit, only track day warriors over-driving it, or pack proppers with all the gear and no idea.
Yet again, I return to my original statement of 'he's clearly got some bottle, but meh'
Edited by The Wookie on Monday 9th November 10:09
The Wookie said:
Good to see logic is keeping its authority over pack mentality and bloody mindedness on PH as usual.
Not really, people are only providing their opinions based upon their own experiences. If two people's opinions are the same, they now form a 'pack'? Interesting.How has logic been defied below?
fergus said:
The Wookie said:
Good to see logic is keeping its authority over pack mentality and bloody mindedness on PH as usual.
Not really, people are only providing their opinions based upon their own experiences. If two people's opinions are the same, they now form a 'pack'? Interesting.How has logic been defied below?
So to sum it up, we're all giving you logical comments and observations based on a lot of varied track experience, while you're starting to undermine us all as 'only Academy/Roadsports drivers' to improve your standing. I think that is the difference between a collective opinion and a bloody minded pack.
The Wookie said:
I have a 12 mile back road journey to work and I don't find it particularly difficult to remember where each corner and bump is after traversing it twice a day for 3 months. If I can learn a 3 mile track I've never been to in a day and half's testing well enough to be half a second off of seasoned pro drivers, then I don't see how I couldn't learn the ring in a couple of weeks there, but that's not the argument.
I don't change my driving style for any circuit in the UK, however bumpy or smooth it is, or how much runoff it has so why would the ring be any different? Consequently, I've never seen a quick driver in a fast Caterham drive like that on a UK circuit, only track day warriors over-driving it, or pack proppers with all the gear and no idea.
Yet again, I return to my original statement of 'he's clearly got some bottle, but meh'
You're a lucky guy if you can drive on the limit no matter where you are. Look forward to seeing your Ring time/video.I don't change my driving style for any circuit in the UK, however bumpy or smooth it is, or how much runoff it has so why would the ring be any different? Consequently, I've never seen a quick driver in a fast Caterham drive like that on a UK circuit, only track day warriors over-driving it, or pack proppers with all the gear and no idea.
Yet again, I return to my original statement of 'he's clearly got some bottle, but meh'
Edited by The Wookie on Monday 9th November 10:09
Yes yes yes, as I said before I've never been there so I know nothing about driving style, car setup or racing lines. And my point wasn't that I drive to work flat out, it was that if it were indeed a closed road that I could drive it flat out and know where all of the bumps were, and that if I did then it sure as hell wouldn't look anything like that video.
As it happens, it might interest you to know that I have declined the opportunity to race there in the past primarily because of the safety element. If I'm going to a track, I'm going to drive as fast as I can make the car go without thinking about runoff and the availability of medical help. I prefer to make that judgement before I step into a car.
As it happens, it might interest you to know that I have declined the opportunity to race there in the past primarily because of the safety element. If I'm going to a track, I'm going to drive as fast as I can make the car go without thinking about runoff and the availability of medical help. I prefer to make that judgement before I step into a car.
you're not a better driver if your a racer!! this forum is blighted by no all'and and my dads better than your dad! its a shambles at times a lot of you want to get a grip and start enjoying yourselves rather than slaggin each other off. youre bringing a bad vibe to the caterham forum
sam919 said:
you're not a better driver if your a racer!! this forum is blighted by no all'and and my dads better than your dad! its a shambles at times a lot of you want to get a grip and start enjoying yourselves rather than slaggin each other off. youre bringing a bad vibe to the caterham forum
No one is claiming to be a better driver, all that was said by several experienced caterham racers is that it doesn't look that great.OJ summed it up perfectly with 'he's clearly got some bottle, but meh'
The Wookie said:
Yes yes yes, as I said before I've never been there so I know nothing about driving style, car setup or racing lines. And my point wasn't that I drive to work flat out, it was that if it were indeed a closed road that I could drive it flat out and know where all of the bumps were, and that if I did then it sure as hell wouldn't look anything like that video.
As it happens, it might interest you to know that I have declined the opportunity to race there in the past primarily because of the safety element. If I'm going to a track, I'm going to drive as fast as I can make the car go without thinking about runoff and the availability of medical help. I prefer to make that judgement before I step into a car.
I was being serious when I said I look forward to seeing your ring attempt. If you want to start putting yourself down and getting your knickers in a knot then go right ahead.As it happens, it might interest you to know that I have declined the opportunity to race there in the past primarily because of the safety element. If I'm going to a track, I'm going to drive as fast as I can make the car go without thinking about runoff and the availability of medical help. I prefer to make that judgement before I step into a car.
No one ever said it was a perfect lap, but it is a fast time. Honestly, whats got peoples backs up a little is how you've come on with comments like 'meh' and 'track day warrior' implying that you could easily do better. Maybe thats not what you were implying but that's how its come across.
Some people have a very smooth style of driving and others don't but what counts at the end of the day is lap times. It doesn't matter how smooth you are, if you are not fast then what does it matter anyway?
If you think you can better the track day warriors time then just say it.
Nerra said:
I was being serious when I said I look forward to seeing your ring attempt. If you want to start putting yourself down and getting your knickers in a knot then go right ahead.
Some people have a very smooth style of driving and others don't but what counts at the end of the day is lap times. It doesn't matter how smooth you are, if you are not fast then what does it matter anyway?
If you think you can better the track day warriors time then just say it.
I'm not the one getting my knickers in a twist here, I'm just having a discussion! Some people have a very smooth style of driving and others don't but what counts at the end of the day is lap times. It doesn't matter how smooth you are, if you are not fast then what does it matter anyway?
If you think you can better the track day warriors time then just say it.
Yes some people have a smooth driving style, and some people don't, as it happens I have a relatively agressive driving style, so for me to say that the video is ragged, really means it's ragged! In fact, when I did my first few tests in the C400 last year that's almost exactly how I drove the car, and I was over a second a lap slower than my team mate. As soon as I worked out how to drive it 'properly' I was 0.5-1 second a lap quicker!
At no point have I said I could wheel straight onto the ring and do a quicker lap than that, however if I'd had as much time around the ring as that chap clearly had, then yes, I would almost certainly better the track day warrior's time!
Unfortunately I have neither the time, money or inclination to spend every weekend for the next 6 months driving to Germany with my C400 on a trailer just to prove a point to a few PH'ers, so I'll clearly have to remain on the lower moral standpoint
sam919 said:
you're not a better driver if your a racer!! this forum is blighted by no all'and and my dads better than your dad! its a shambles at times a lot of you want to get a grip and start enjoying yourselves rather than slaggin each other off. youre bringing a bad vibe to the caterham forum
I've raced against people who own ex super touring cars. Being clad in Nomex does not a racer make... Anyway, I think it's time we closed this thread now?
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