Advice on the right Caterham for me.
Discussion
RMac said:
if you know your elises then you will know all the k series engine issues. The SLR has the same engine as the VHPD elise 190 I think! And will therefore require similar levels of maintenance?
I was going to ask how Caterham owners have found the K series and VHPD heads for reliability.Also if they've had the VVC heads that also appeared in the K series.
In the S1 Elise K series HGF usually goes around the 45k mark. And is a reasonably frequent affair with a good number of the cars needing it done.
The Lotus 190 VHPD uses forged pistons to make the extra power revving to 8k, but has poor lower down torque and not much cop at idle. Needing a remap to sort it along with a couple of other things. The problem with the VHPD is with the stronger forged steel pistons. When cold they're smaller as they're designed to expand when hot. But when cold they wear quicker as they rattle around until hot and being a long stroke engine it doesn't help with the, when cold wear rate. The forged pistons are more expensive than standard ones and a Lotus VHPD head is about 6k, (< so I've been told). The VHPD lotus service is a FULL engine rebuild at 30k.
The other option is a VVC Head (Variable Valve before anyone else did it). Plus the stronger trophy pistons, although I don't think you can get the Trophy Pistons anymore.
Standard S1 gives you around 120. The VVC Head makes around 143 in Series 1 and 160 in Series 2. And there's a Dave Andrews DVA K06a port and that will raise this to 170/180 bhp. Add a Dave Andrews DVA K06a port to a VVC head and you've probably got a better package than the VHPD.
What experience do you guys have of these options and what routes have K series Caterham owners gone down.
Even thought I know the Duatec produces more torque than the K series. Is the Duatec a shallower engine than the K series, as I've noticed just how low the sumps can be on the K series in a Caterham.
The more I think about it the more I'm considering going with a Duatec. As I believe Caterham aren't the only guys that have dropped one into a 7. Did others do it before Caterham and if so, it opens up the possibilities of picking up a 7 with a Duatec at a lower price Caterham.
Cheers again.
Edited by jimsayshi on Saturday 28th November 18:16
"as I've noticed just how low the sumps can be on the K series in a Caterham."
You can say that again!
Mine was tha R300 VVC, very tractable engine in such a light car. But I never had the impressiobn it was a strong engine. Can't explain why, just a gut feeling. Also, I don't think 160hp is enough, as you notice when there's a second person in the car.
There where quite a few people fitting Duratecs before CC.
I wouldn't worry too much about the "Badging" just find a car with the options you like.
I found the S3 a bit tight with two people, so I opted for the SV this time around. It's a bigger car, and being wider, you get more space behind the seats for gear, and a bigger fuel tank. They also have wide track as standard.
You can say that again!
Mine was tha R300 VVC, very tractable engine in such a light car. But I never had the impressiobn it was a strong engine. Can't explain why, just a gut feeling. Also, I don't think 160hp is enough, as you notice when there's a second person in the car.
There where quite a few people fitting Duratecs before CC.
I wouldn't worry too much about the "Badging" just find a car with the options you like.
I found the S3 a bit tight with two people, so I opted for the SV this time around. It's a bigger car, and being wider, you get more space behind the seats for gear, and a bigger fuel tank. They also have wide track as standard.
I've got an 160 bhp vvc engine. I had the few faults as the iacv died and a starter motor. Apart from that I've driven 9.000 miles in it from june this year, including several trackdays. I'm not the 'take my time touring around' type of driver, but the engin itself hasn't missed a beat, yet. It can be a bit scary when you hit something with the sump pan. I asume a dry sumped k-series would have a bit more clearance?
Anyways, I wouldnt get too worried about the k-series. Just respect the engine (don't give it the full beans without warming it up first) and you'll be fine.
Anyways, I wouldnt get too worried about the k-series. Just respect the engine (don't give it the full beans without warming it up first) and you'll be fine.
A bit late into the fray and while not wanting to dissuade you in anyway from going down the Caterham route, had you considered the Duratec engine in an Elise ? On the face of it, it would seem to be a much better and cheaper option in the long run than the Honda conversion and in a tried and trusted package at least for someone coming from an Exige.
jimsayshi said:
The more I think about it the more I'm considering going with a Duatec. As I believe Caterham aren't the only guys that have dropped one into a 7. Did others do it before Caterham and if so, it opens up the possibilities of picking up a 7 with a Duatec at a lower price Caterham.
The Duratec is now mainstream and very popular. I don't think you'll find a caterham that is cheap because of the duratec. You've better chance perhaps finding a caterham with a legacy cheese-engine (k) at a lower price.HGs are pretty much service items on the k, or at least expected to go (if they don't it's a bonus). The trick is being able to spot it and fix it before you cook the engine.
Bert
BertBert said:
....cheese-engine (k)....
Blasphemy 
BertBert said:
HGs are pretty much service items on the k, or at least expected to go (if they don't it's a bonus). The trick is being able to spot it and fix it before you cook the engine.
If the fire ring lands have been correctly peened and the liners have the correct offset from the block (4 thou), then assuming the engine is allowed to warm up sensibly, not creating a massive thermal gradient suddenly accross the head, then a std head gasket will suffice. Speak to DVA for more in depth analysis/info. Don't be scared of a well maintained/modded K, although the Duratec is the way forward in terms of cost, reliability (for a given hp level) and tuning potential
I will say it again - Put your money into a duratec - If a new roadsport duratec is not within your means - then look on pistonheads for a duratec powered early car - before caterham started building duratec powered cars - many people including myself wanted a duratec in a 7 - raceline among others offered a kit to do this - CC offered - but did not advertise a chassis kit modified to suit - look for one of these cars! many sold for high teens low 20's a year or so ago - so you can bet on getting one for 17 - 19,995 now - only thing is its the wrong time of year to sell a caterham - good time for buying but they are thin on the ground.
This is IMO and many as said will disagree but I would not put my £££ into a K now - I would rather have a Sigma powered car than a K.
I had a K powered R300 and I loved it.......I just felt it was the right time to get out of the K engined car - I sold at a good price and lost very little on my new price paid. The car is still going and without any problem - however I doubt the new owner will have as much luck with his loss from his purchase price.
If you want a 7 and think you may sell it sooner rather than later Look only to unmolested cars IF you will keep it and modify, tune, or mess about with it as many do then the early duratec powered hybrid cars will suit you!
CC or Hybrid duratec powered - you will not be dissapointed
This is IMO and many as said will disagree but I would not put my £££ into a K now - I would rather have a Sigma powered car than a K.
I had a K powered R300 and I loved it.......I just felt it was the right time to get out of the K engined car - I sold at a good price and lost very little on my new price paid. The car is still going and without any problem - however I doubt the new owner will have as much luck with his loss from his purchase price.
If you want a 7 and think you may sell it sooner rather than later Look only to unmolested cars IF you will keep it and modify, tune, or mess about with it as many do then the early duratec powered hybrid cars will suit you!
CC or Hybrid duratec powered - you will not be dissapointed
Hi Jim, I reckon the best caterham for you is the renamed model, its called a Lotus Elise/Exige........dont do it!!!!!!!!!! You will be banned from the Blacksmiths next xmas.
If you do for goodness sake dont buy an SV. I can put you in touch with a couple of mates, one has a superlight he will take you out in if you are interested. A.A
If you do for goodness sake dont buy an SV. I can put you in touch with a couple of mates, one has a superlight he will take you out in if you are interested. A.A
Opinions are like arsholes, everyone has one.
Bearing in mind your inteneded use.
I would say DO go for an SV. I've owned an S3 Superlight (R300) and I can tell you, we've grown a bit since 1957. You'd be hard pushed to tell an S3 from an SV, unless they are sitting next to each other. But the difference it makes with two people is huge.
I've now gone for an SV. There's no shoulder, or elbow room in an S3 with two blokes in it.
You intend to travel with the car, so it's a no brainer. More elbow room, more luggage space (also behind the seats if you're not over 6ft) more fuel (Bigger fuel tank)and it's widetrack as standard.
Type 9 box is the Sierra 5 speed, but the Caterham 6 speed box is a joy.
Nothing wrong with the K engine, but I would try and find a Duratec if possible, as it's the later choice.
At the end of the day, if you find a nice K at the right money, you can allways swop it for a Duratec later, when you've had some fun with it.
The cars are all basically the same car, but with a million different options. Like I said before, don't look at the badging, just find a car with a spec you like.
Bearing in mind your inteneded use.
I would say DO go for an SV. I've owned an S3 Superlight (R300) and I can tell you, we've grown a bit since 1957. You'd be hard pushed to tell an S3 from an SV, unless they are sitting next to each other. But the difference it makes with two people is huge.
I've now gone for an SV. There's no shoulder, or elbow room in an S3 with two blokes in it.
You intend to travel with the car, so it's a no brainer. More elbow room, more luggage space (also behind the seats if you're not over 6ft) more fuel (Bigger fuel tank)and it's widetrack as standard.
Type 9 box is the Sierra 5 speed, but the Caterham 6 speed box is a joy.
Nothing wrong with the K engine, but I would try and find a Duratec if possible, as it's the later choice.
At the end of the day, if you find a nice K at the right money, you can allways swop it for a Duratec later, when you've had some fun with it.
The cars are all basically the same car, but with a million different options. Like I said before, don't look at the badging, just find a car with a spec you like.
Thanks for all the advice guys, plenty to consider. Thanks for the offer A, I may take you up on the offer of a run in one of your mates Superlight's, sometime next year when it's dryer. As I've had a run in a Roadsport 125 but felt it was soon out of puff.
What are the handling characteristics of a 7 like? An S1 Elise having good aero means at high speed it's very stable underfoot. Rear engined gets the power down well but with a short square wheel base it's quicker to snap oversteer under heavy trail breaking, and more consideration is needed when wanting to play with the rear abroad in the mountains.
I'm sure I'm right is saying the rear of a 7 is much more accessible and controllable to play with. And with it being an open wheeled car very probably gives you more confidence encouraging you to explore the limits more. But what's it like under heavy breaking, whats the front like in general, getting power down and quick directional changes?
What are the handling characteristics of a 7 like? An S1 Elise having good aero means at high speed it's very stable underfoot. Rear engined gets the power down well but with a short square wheel base it's quicker to snap oversteer under heavy trail breaking, and more consideration is needed when wanting to play with the rear abroad in the mountains.
I'm sure I'm right is saying the rear of a 7 is much more accessible and controllable to play with. And with it being an open wheeled car very probably gives you more confidence encouraging you to explore the limits more. But what's it like under heavy breaking, whats the front like in general, getting power down and quick directional changes?
Edited by jimsayshi on Friday 25th December 14:08
Edited by jimsayshi on Friday 25th December 14:08
buzzer - I think that Caterham got the proportions just right. Unless you have them side by side it is often hard to tell which one you are looking at - unless you count the poppers on the top of the windscreen.
Jim - If the 7 is set up properly, then you won't find anything better than a 7 for handling - braking and direction changes are out of this world compared to most cars on the road and getting the power down isn't a problem either, provided you remember that the only traction control you have is your right foot.
Steve
Jim - If the 7 is set up properly, then you won't find anything better than a 7 for handling - braking and direction changes are out of this world compared to most cars on the road and getting the power down isn't a problem either, provided you remember that the only traction control you have is your right foot.
Steve
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