Ford to reveal next generation Mustang on 5 Dec 2013
Discussion
Thats a very appealing approach. When I think Mustang I can't help thinking of the Bullitt car chase or the red Mach 1. An affordable, optimistic, aggressive looking drivers car which vibrates with the beat of its V8. Bang for your buck, as you say. That is how to sell Mustangs.
What it may have been originally or in the 73 fuel crisis is irrelevant. The mid 70's was not a car free zone. The strikes, OPEC crisis and fuel rationing cards didn't last that long. There were a lot of good cars about. Aston Martin V8, Jaguar XJS, end of the E Type - bet most of us wished we had bought one of the commemorative models (and it wasn't the fuel consumption which stopped it selling, it was the perception that it was old hat) heyday of the Triumph TR6, Rolls Royce Shadow, Lynx started producing their C and D Type replicas, Porsche 911, Maserati Indy, Ghibli (the real one) Bora and Khamsin. Not everyone was driving Allegros and Austin Princess's. The fact that the British car industry was going down the toilet and BL had lost the place on car design is irrelevant.
I don't think Ford have been clever at all with the Mustang, certainly so far as the UK market is concerned. By the time Diamonds are Forever came out you couldn't buy a Mach 1. The Mustang II, yes that was what it was called, was a small nondescript underpowered heap which internally was very reminiscent of an Austin Maxi. Think rectangular plastic speedometers and nasty shades of bronze. What were they thinking about? Only a few motor dealers drove them as I recall, mostly the sheepskin jacket variety. That was the level of their penetration of the market.
What it may have been originally or in the 73 fuel crisis is irrelevant. The mid 70's was not a car free zone. The strikes, OPEC crisis and fuel rationing cards didn't last that long. There were a lot of good cars about. Aston Martin V8, Jaguar XJS, end of the E Type - bet most of us wished we had bought one of the commemorative models (and it wasn't the fuel consumption which stopped it selling, it was the perception that it was old hat) heyday of the Triumph TR6, Rolls Royce Shadow, Lynx started producing their C and D Type replicas, Porsche 911, Maserati Indy, Ghibli (the real one) Bora and Khamsin. Not everyone was driving Allegros and Austin Princess's. The fact that the British car industry was going down the toilet and BL had lost the place on car design is irrelevant.
I don't think Ford have been clever at all with the Mustang, certainly so far as the UK market is concerned. By the time Diamonds are Forever came out you couldn't buy a Mach 1. The Mustang II, yes that was what it was called, was a small nondescript underpowered heap which internally was very reminiscent of an Austin Maxi. Think rectangular plastic speedometers and nasty shades of bronze. What were they thinking about? Only a few motor dealers drove them as I recall, mostly the sheepskin jacket variety. That was the level of their penetration of the market.
The Mach 1 interior was terrible too.
There was never any point in marketing a LHD Mustang that had been strangled by emissions.
Bear in mind that the US always quoted gross hp up until 1972 which made them seem a lot more powerful. The 1971 Mach 1 had 240hp and weighed 3080lbs. 1972 and it was 177hp (275 for the 351), compression having dropped, for emissions purposes, from 11:1 to 8.8:1. The 351 dropped to 248 in the Cobra Jet.
By contrast, the Mustang II weighed only 2620lbs and limped along with a 2.3 and 2.8V6 with 105hp in the Mach 1 version. A 5.0 V8 arrived in 1975 with an enormous 122hp from the 5.0. A Cobra came along with the same engines but an optional 139hp. However, such power was normal for that era - droop snoot Firenzas had 136hp, Capri 3.0s around 138.
The King Cobra continued the theme and road tests concluded that "few American cars can match it for looks, handling and overall performance". That still only used a 2 barrel carb.
What you have to bear in mind is that the UK already had the Capri so a Mustang made no sense. In the US, a Mach 1 in 1978 was $4400 but a King Cobra was $6800.
I recall Motor testing a Capri II 3.0S against a Mustang Ghia 5.0 V8 around 1975. Stupid comparison because the Capri was much cheaper and the Ghia was more a luxo-yacht. Against a Cobra, it may have been more even but the price difference remained and the Capri was extremely popular, as were Cortina Mk IIIs with their American styling.
So back then, the Brits and Japanese desperately tried to emulate the Americans and now look at us, 360 degree turn and we are all the poorer for it.
There was never any point in marketing a LHD Mustang that had been strangled by emissions.
Bear in mind that the US always quoted gross hp up until 1972 which made them seem a lot more powerful. The 1971 Mach 1 had 240hp and weighed 3080lbs. 1972 and it was 177hp (275 for the 351), compression having dropped, for emissions purposes, from 11:1 to 8.8:1. The 351 dropped to 248 in the Cobra Jet.
By contrast, the Mustang II weighed only 2620lbs and limped along with a 2.3 and 2.8V6 with 105hp in the Mach 1 version. A 5.0 V8 arrived in 1975 with an enormous 122hp from the 5.0. A Cobra came along with the same engines but an optional 139hp. However, such power was normal for that era - droop snoot Firenzas had 136hp, Capri 3.0s around 138.
The King Cobra continued the theme and road tests concluded that "few American cars can match it for looks, handling and overall performance". That still only used a 2 barrel carb.
What you have to bear in mind is that the UK already had the Capri so a Mustang made no sense. In the US, a Mach 1 in 1978 was $4400 but a King Cobra was $6800.
I recall Motor testing a Capri II 3.0S against a Mustang Ghia 5.0 V8 around 1975. Stupid comparison because the Capri was much cheaper and the Ghia was more a luxo-yacht. Against a Cobra, it may have been more even but the price difference remained and the Capri was extremely popular, as were Cortina Mk IIIs with their American styling.
So back then, the Brits and Japanese desperately tried to emulate the Americans and now look at us, 360 degree turn and we are all the poorer for it.
Just reading the latest issue of Top Gear magazine where there is a review of the latest Mustang, which they have driven in the States.
Contrary to what I feared, it looks as if they have got the message. Moray Callum is quoted saying much what I said, ie they need to be selling a proper Mustang in Europe. I was also gratified that they were very critical of the Mustang II. Apparently the 5.0 V8 model will be in the showrooms at about £34,000, with a 5 speed manual. It also looks, imho, the complete business. They were a bit down on the interior, but it looked pretty good to me. If they deliver on this, I think it will be a serious success, particularly in the UK and Germany. Where is the competition? Well north of £50k. A 5.0 Jag XK is a cool £70k.
I agree that the Capri was a pretty good car, though my experience was that the 3.0 was a bit unbalanced and the 2.0S was the sweetest model in the line up. Nevertheless, across here, V8's are relatively rare and exotic. I am not saying that they should have been selling duff Mustangs in competition with their own products. What I am saying is that the Mach 1 would have been perceived as something in the class of the preceding Bond coupe, the 1969 Aston DBS for a fraction of the cost, if they had chosen to market it that way. This latest one will, if the TG article is right, go down the same way, essentially as Jimbeaux said, a lot of bang for your buck.
Contrary to what I feared, it looks as if they have got the message. Moray Callum is quoted saying much what I said, ie they need to be selling a proper Mustang in Europe. I was also gratified that they were very critical of the Mustang II. Apparently the 5.0 V8 model will be in the showrooms at about £34,000, with a 5 speed manual. It also looks, imho, the complete business. They were a bit down on the interior, but it looked pretty good to me. If they deliver on this, I think it will be a serious success, particularly in the UK and Germany. Where is the competition? Well north of £50k. A 5.0 Jag XK is a cool £70k.
I agree that the Capri was a pretty good car, though my experience was that the 3.0 was a bit unbalanced and the 2.0S was the sweetest model in the line up. Nevertheless, across here, V8's are relatively rare and exotic. I am not saying that they should have been selling duff Mustangs in competition with their own products. What I am saying is that the Mach 1 would have been perceived as something in the class of the preceding Bond coupe, the 1969 Aston DBS for a fraction of the cost, if they had chosen to market it that way. This latest one will, if the TG article is right, go down the same way, essentially as Jimbeaux said, a lot of bang for your buck.
LuS1fer said:
So back then, the Brits and Japanese desperately tried to emulate the Americans and now look at us, 360 degree turn and we are all the poorer for it.
pedantic hat on here... 360 degrees means that it's the same direction, surely you meant 180? 
was chatting to Mrs Irocfan yesterday about the S550 and I may have been wavering a little (the contract hire thing does make it seem a LITTLE more interesting) but then I realised that if I had 35/40k to spend on one car it would NOT be the Mustang (which is sad as I really like my current one). #1 would be the Challenger either the R/T or (if I could stretch to it) the SRT followed by some distance the Z28 with the S550 lagging badly (it would be even worse but I like the S550 interior)
If the V8 comes to these shores at £35k, that would be great but I have vowed never to buy a new car ever again. Mine are always on the street in London and have suffered accordingly.
I'm still smarting over the Disco3 bought in 2005 and sold with a £20k loss in 2008 (Admittedly a bad year to sell 4x4s). This was the car that was keyed on every panel when only 2 months old.
Anyway I digress. What would be nice to know is if it would be worth half it's value in 3 years for a good secondhand buy? Waiting until 2018 though
I'm still smarting over the Disco3 bought in 2005 and sold with a £20k loss in 2008 (Admittedly a bad year to sell 4x4s). This was the car that was keyed on every panel when only 2 months old.
Anyway I digress. What would be nice to know is if it would be worth half it's value in 3 years for a good secondhand buy? Waiting until 2018 though
It'll be interesting to see what the UK price will actually end up at. Who knows what the exchange rate will be when the RHD cars are available. In the last 2 months the £/$ has been up at 1.71, but is currently 1.59. It may not seem much, but that 12 cents can make a difference of a couple of grand to UK Mustang prices.
The options list will make a big difference too. US base price for a GT is $32100, but I've seen cars with 'as tested' prices of $45k.
The manual boxes are all 6 speed I believe.
The options list will make a big difference too. US base price for a GT is $32100, but I've seen cars with 'as tested' prices of $45k.
The manual boxes are all 6 speed I believe.
Edited by sonicbloo on Sunday 5th October 19:30
The starting pistol has been fired!
http://www.ford.co.uk/SBE/Brochures/BrochuresandPr...
Boys, this is a fully loaded 5.0 V8, with a limited slip diff and a manual box for £32,995 on the road. I may be mistaken but I expect a stampede. Only thing I don't see on the list is the Recaro Seats, but they must there somewhere. I don't know how they are going to make a profit out of this, but imho they are going to sell one hell of a lot of them, the waiting lists are going to go out to 2016 and Europe is going to buy into the Mustang culture, at long last.
I also predict this is going to shake up the car market very significantly.
http://www.ford.co.uk/SBE/Brochures/BrochuresandPr...
Boys, this is a fully loaded 5.0 V8, with a limited slip diff and a manual box for £32,995 on the road. I may be mistaken but I expect a stampede. Only thing I don't see on the list is the Recaro Seats, but they must there somewhere. I don't know how they are going to make a profit out of this, but imho they are going to sell one hell of a lot of them, the waiting lists are going to go out to 2016 and Europe is going to buy into the Mustang culture, at long last.
I also predict this is going to shake up the car market very significantly.
Is there anywhere in London that these can be seen yet?
So tempted to blow my savings and just put a deposit down but I've not seen one in the flesh and I suspect that by the time I'll get to test drive one the waiting list will be very long.
This could be one of those cars that you could buy new and sell a year later for very little loss.
So tempted to blow my savings and just put a deposit down but I've not seen one in the flesh and I suspect that by the time I'll get to test drive one the waiting list will be very long.
This could be one of those cars that you could buy new and sell a year later for very little loss.
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