Reduced Power Output for Rhd Mustangs
Discussion
Matt Harper said:
Broda said:
Considering they are meant to be a company coming back into Motorsport...
Spearheaded with a 6 cyl Ecoboost, so not exactly relevant.
Got my exhaust letter this morning - so at least I know Ford are aware of my existence and order. The actual purpose of the letter, however, seems to be to break the news that no cars will be delivered before the end of the year .... or at least that's how I read it. The 'due to the high volume of pre-orders ...' part looks like the start of a pretty standard excuse for lateness of anything. But, as was discussed a while ago on the forum, it basically comes down to Ford completely underestimating RHD demand - despite undoubtedly employing a huge number of people in a marketing/market research capacity. Hey-ho, I'm sure it'll turn up eventually
Broda said:
Stig,
5BHP is enough, you will feel it, especially on drivability and responsiveness along the curve, to get the best manifold it is an exact science and mathematical equation, you can notice 1BHP quite easily,
Well, we'll have to beg to differ then. Firstly, Ford said it was peak power where you get the loss (who knows - the different manifold may actually IMPROVE the midrange) so your comment about driving and responsiveness 'along the curve' is complete supposition (in fairness and for the sake of balance, so could mine about midrange).5BHP is enough, you will feel it, especially on drivability and responsiveness along the curve, to get the best manifold it is an exact science and mathematical equation, you can notice 1BHP quite easily,
I know plenty about the science of intake/exhaust performance thanks (you might like to see my profile for some cars that I've built). I'm interested in your experience/knowledge in this respect thought - are you a tuner?
So I happily maintain my stance, that you won't know the difference. Saying you can tell a 1bhp difference, sorry to say, is frankly laughable unless you drive something with a total output of single digit bhp!
Bear in mind I have a car on order so am affected as much as any other customer.
Edited by Stig on Sunday 23 August 08:59
1000aceman said:
Received my letter yesterday as well . This has just added another question of doubt in my mind , having serious doubts this morning about pulling my order and importing one myself !! Going stateside in a month , going straight to a ford dealership to ask a few questions !! Might even have a look at the camaros if there's any to view ?
So you'd rather have LHD, no warranty and all the hassle of importing (which wil work out at almost what you'll pay here) for the sake of 5bhp?I really lament the fact that we don't get the bonnet vents, Recaros, machine turned dash and centre gauges- but does is that enoiugh to make me cancel? Not even close.
Still, each to their own
Quinny said:
If that engine produced 6 BHP and you lost 5 of em you'd notice it
It produces over 400...... Take 5 away, nobody will notice and most won't care.
Precisely!It produces over 400...... Take 5 away, nobody will notice
and most won't care.And for anyone 'outraged' and considering cancelling their order, given the unexpected demand, I can't see Ford shedding many tears over it
It's not what we wanted to hear, but that's part of the risj ordering a car that doesn't yet exist (in the UK at least).
I expect successive evolutions will change those figures further (have seen rumour of Mach One comin arounf 2018) so you could always wait
Stig said:
Saying you can tell a 1bhp difference, sorry to say, is frankly laughable unless you drive something with a total output of single digit bhp!
And asking for a discount because of it is nearly as bad.
They're great cars, they'll be great fun amongst the sea of Mondeos and Kias enjoy them and don't get too het up about little (unnoticeable
) things. Edited by Boshly on Sunday 23 August 09:36
Broda said:
I work for RedBull Milton Keynes, I am a fully qualified engineer also, 1BHP is very noticeable, READ above! The curve is the same (apparently) and read my concernes above regarding testing and the figures we've been given, also 5BHP at the peak will be even more noticeable!
So is your engineering qualification not relevant to your position at RB? My neighbour works for Force India (and knows a lot of the guys at RB - maybe you in fact) - doesn't mean he knows about engine performance though (he's in aero). 1bhp is important in F1, but the performance iis only noticable due to the slim margins between the cars and the drivers ability to extract the max from them.I'm also interested to know why, if you're a fully qualified engineer, you a) don't know what bonnet pins are and b) why 'sticking' them onto your bonnet with adhesive is probably not a good idea
.Anyway, on the road, through the seat of the pants - I still maintain you won't notice 1 or 5bhp.
If you can, maybe you should ask Daniel,Dani for their job
Edited by Stig on Sunday 23 August 09:47
Not wishing to perpetuate the 'dicussion', I'll make two further points.
1) The stock tuning from Ford will have kept some power reined in to comply with EU emissions laws.
I can tell you - from experience with the 4.6 in the S197 - that a custom tune will return far, far more than the 'lost' 5bhp.
2) As I said before, even sticking decent fuel in (98RON) and you'll likely have the same power as the US cars (likely more). US fuel is typically 89-93 RON whereas we have 95-98. What the Ford RHD cars were tested with is anyone's guess, but the margin is so small I wouldn't lose sleep over it!
1) The stock tuning from Ford will have kept some power reined in to comply with EU emissions laws.
I can tell you - from experience with the 4.6 in the S197 - that a custom tune will return far, far more than the 'lost' 5bhp.
2) As I said before, even sticking decent fuel in (98RON) and you'll likely have the same power as the US cars (likely more). US fuel is typically 89-93 RON whereas we have 95-98. What the Ford RHD cars were tested with is anyone's guess, but the margin is so small I wouldn't lose sleep over it!
Stig said:
Broda said:
I work for RedBull Milton Keynes, I am a fully qualified engineer also, 1BHP is very noticeable, READ above! The curve is the same (apparently) and read my concernes above regarding testing and the figures we've been given, also 5BHP at the peak will be even more noticeable!
So is your engineering qualification not relevant to your position at RB? My neighbour works for Force India (and knows a lot of the guys at RB - maybe you in fact) - doesn't mean he knows about engine performance though (he's in aero). 1bhp is important in F1, but the performance iis only noticable due to the slim margins between the cars and the drivers ability to extract the max from them.I'm also interested to know why, if you're a fully qualified engineer, you a) don't know what bonnet pins are and b) why 'sticking' them onto your bonnet with adhesive is probably not a good idea
.Anyway, on the road, through the seat of the pants - I still maintain you won't notice 1 or 5bhp.
If you can, maybe you should ask Daniel,Dani for their job
Edited by Stig on Sunday 23 August 09:47
There again, we could be talking to the driver of this....
Never mind; only one more week to go.
I can remember years ago when there was a "gentlemans" agreement that bikes would be restricted to 125 BHP.
I had a ZZR1100 at the time (1991). And apparently in the USA they were a full fat 140 BHP....
I just had to have the full power, so at great expense I ordered new carb tops to replace the Euro versions which had a spacer in the top, to restrict the full travel of the slider and restrict the power...
I fitted my new unrestricted tops, and with much excitement went for a blast....... Result hardly noticeable.
I got far more value from bragging rights in the pub, that my ZZR was a full power version
I had a ZZR1100 at the time (1991). And apparently in the USA they were a full fat 140 BHP....
I just had to have the full power, so at great expense I ordered new carb tops to replace the Euro versions which had a spacer in the top, to restrict the full travel of the slider and restrict the power...
I fitted my new unrestricted tops, and with much excitement went for a blast....... Result hardly noticeable.
I got far more value from bragging rights in the pub, that my ZZR was a full power version
I'm pretty sure that at the point we ordered (January) the power was being stated as 412bhp (which is 417ps*), so this doesn't make any difference to what I thought I was getting tbh! I've always just thought of it having a bit over 400hp anyway, that seems like a decent enough number to me...
*Actually 417.7ps, I'm afraid my lack of driving talent was going to make it unlikely I'd notice that extra 0.7 though
*Actually 417.7ps, I'm afraid my lack of driving talent was going to make it unlikely I'd notice that extra 0.7 though
No its not just the 5bhp im bothered about, had plans to significantly upgrade power anyway, its the whole thing. what we signed up for is 'in my mind' being diluted ? No hood vents, no recaro's , dumbo eu mirrors, horrible rear lights etc etc ......yeah i know there all small things and can all be changed but ? . will headers, exhausts etc fit the EU rhd models ? its the whole experience to be honest , the lack of any real information, the sales people at the dealer, ( last week i was told i wouldn't receive my car until JUNE for christ sake ( Ordered Feb ? ) i know this is wrong but the whole thing is just starting to piss me off .
As you say each to his own !!
As you say each to his own !!
I also have no problem with LHD, most cars iv,e owned have been yanks, The warranty issue is irrelevant as either turbos or s/c would take care of that anyway and as for importing don't really find that too much of an issue. Im off to the states end of next month so will leave my deposit alone, have a drive of a manual ( already driven at auto here ) and make some decisions when i get back. will take as many pics of them as i can and upload when i return for you guys.
1000aceman said:
No its not just the 5bhp im bothered about, had plans to significantly upgrade power anyway, its the whole thing. what we signed up for is 'in my mind' being diluted ? No hood vents, no recaro's , dumbo eu mirrors, horrible rear lights etc etc ......yeah i know there all small things and can all be changed but ? . will headers, exhausts etc fit the EU rhd models ? its the whole experience to be honest , the lack of any real information, the sales people at the dealer, ( last week i was told i wouldn't receive my car until JUNE for christ sake ( Ordered Feb ? ) i know this is wrong but the whole thing is just starting to piss me off .
As you say each to his own !!
Oh I share some of your frustrations - no question.As you say each to his own !!
As it happens, I popped into the dealer earlier to see if there was any news. The result - nothing, nada, zip. The guy on reception (being a Sunday onoy skeleton sales staff) said that 'Ford will be in toch direct' (which appears in part to be the case, hence this thread) and that 'cars will begin to trickle in from Q1 next year' - so about a year after I placed the order.
To be honest, I'm kind of happy to wait. I'd rather get it next March on a new plate where hopefully the weather is picking up than having to suffer road salt and foul weather over the winter.
Still a frustrating wait, but I do at least feel that it will be worth it
1000aceman said:
No its not just the 5bhp im bothered about, had plans to significantly upgrade power anyway, its the whole thing. what we signed up for is 'in my mind' being diluted ? No hood vents, no recaro's , dumbo eu mirrors, horrible rear lights etc etc ......yeah i know there all small things and can all be changed but ? . will headers, exhausts etc fit the EU rhd models ? its the whole experience to be honest , the lack of any real information, the sales people at the dealer, ( last week i was told i wouldn't receive my car until JUNE for christ sake ( Ordered Feb ? ) i know this is wrong but the whole thing is just starting to piss me off .
As you say each to his own !!
Absolutely with you on this. It's another small thing that's been chipped off the spec. In itself it's no problem, but it's not an isolated occurrence. No Recaros, no additional gauges, no strut-brace, no bonnet vents, no ACC, no blind spot assist, no real choice of wheels etc etc. How much more do they now think they can chip off before people start complaining? Another 5bhp? ..... 10bhp? .... some interior equipment? .... no Brembo brakes?As you say each to his own !!
All this coupled with the p
ss poor attitude of Ford and their dealers has taken the edge off what should have been an enjoyable experience. "They've sold all the cars so they don't need to worry about what customers think ...." is no excuse or justification for the shameful attitude they've shown. This is the first time I've bought a Ford and I haven't been impressed thus far. If they'd done a decent job of customer service I might have considered replacing my daily driver with another Ford, but as they've done a hopeless job I'll spend my money elsewhere.Think that letter has put me in a cranky mood
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