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Tonymg

330 posts

84 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th June 2011 quote quote all


but it's OK because i got this now.... i still come off the @ the bend's

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th June 2011 quote quote all
BCA said:
It was a runner, I followed it along the M6 one night at a steady 70mph absolutely blasting past all other (not much) traffic that for the speed differential one can only assume were doing a consistant 20mph... wink

Bit upset to read that it may have been cut up, I assumed it was one that Nikolai took back with him? frown
Good news. We've now confirmed that this car was converted into a De Walt promo car but not the one we thought.

We thought it had been totally gutted of mechanicals and become the shell that was used on the Invincible shoot.

However, we now know that it became the other promo car, the number 91 car which is currently up for sale.

Important to note that it was never a race car nor at Le Mans but a running road car used for promos etc.

I'll update the table when near a pc.


Tonymg

330 posts

84 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
So is 91 up for sale again?

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
Tonymg said:
So is 91 up for sale again?
I believe it is. I think it is available through RG either as is or fully road prepped. I was quoted the prices and it's quite tempting but I've too much on my plate.

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
DonkeyApple said:
Some additional info I've dug out now I'm in the office:

Build Number Original Colour Original Engine CC Original Number Plate Number Plate Changed To: Colour Changed To: Current Number Plate: Current Colour Current Engine CC notes
0a Red N/A PN 02 ZNG N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A Red show car/prototype with the smaller centre console pod. This was converted to the De Walt promo car, number 91.
0b Fleetwood Bronze 4.0 PL 03 BXY N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A This car also had the small centre dash pod, synonomous with the prototype cars. It was driven by Brundle for his supercar video. Possibly a 2 seater as well.
1 Grey 4.2 N/A LNT 3 Grey L5 DYJ Unchanged Unchanged First road going prototype T440, essentially no different from the later cars.
2 Reflex Charcoal 4.0 PN 06 EHT T14 HON Unchanged Unchanged Unchanged Unchanged This was the first customer spec'd car but it was taken by NS to be his own and later sold. Since sold and in new hands.
3 Orange (Lamborghini?) 4.0 SC AF 04 BYZ Unchanged Unchanged Unchanged Unchanged 4.0 Racing Green FFF2 NA Again, a customer car which was ordered to Typhon spec (SC and Sequential box). Was never delivered as TVR could not get the package to work before folding. Car was recently sold and is undergoing full restoration to T440 spec (non SC, non sequential)
4 Reflex Charcoal 4.0 PN 06 EHX TYP 110N Unchanged Unchanged Unchanged 4.5 TVR Power SuperSports Only car actually delivered to a client by TVR and was the replacement for the original customer car taken by NS for personal use



The two prototype cars were essentially the same but the red one was originally badged T400R and the Fleetwood one T440R. From memory this was once explained as being done so that the T400 race cars could be homologated for Le Mans, or similar. Both were on show at the 2002 Motor Show. It is believed that the Red one was a 4 seater while the Fleetwood one was a 2 seater with the long range fuel tank. These were the two proposed customer offerings.

Later, TVR claimed these cars would have either 440BHP NA and the red car was later rebadged as a T440R accordingly. They also announced that there would be a supercharged option with a sequential gearbox called the Typhon.

During PW's stewardship the cars for customers settled on this nomenclature. However the only ever car ordered by a customer to Typhon spec (the orange one) was never delivered due to problems in getting the supercharger to not overheat and the sequential box to not lock up at speed!!!.

When NS took control of the company, the supercharger and sequential box project was ultimately halted and the T440R name dropped and the model simply became the Typhon.

It was thought that the Fleetwood car eventually became the grey T440 but this now does not appear to be the case. There are stories of it being cut up and another recent story that it is in Austria, although that car is believed to actually be the Sagaris II. We hope to be able to find the ultimate answer shortly after speaking again with some of the ex factory and race guys as all of these cars were built by a small group, many of whom are still working at or near the site.

The very first iteration of these cars was the purple, 2 seater Tuscan R with the different rear end. This has been confirmed by the people who built them at the factory as being cut up and destroyed as per the law:


The same car but with a colour change for the 2000 motorshow:


The race cars of which we believe there to have been 7 or 8 were a mixture of these two designs, depending on when they were built but the majority were the latter design with at least 2 (the LNT cars) having wider arches than standard. But the race cars a whole different subject!!!!

I don't think any of the owners would mind this info going up as it is all public domain but please feel free to modify any errors or remove details about your cars if you are not happy. Original spec and build order came from the people at the factory who built them and ran the project.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 5th June 17:13
0a:

0b:

1:

2:

3:

4:



Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 6th June 12:31


Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 6th June 12:39


Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 27th August 10:13

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McAndy

Original Poster:

6,324 posts

64 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
Fantastic stuff. It's amazing how such a small number of cars can have such a convoluted history!

RichB

30,989 posts

171 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
DonkeyApple said:
...they quickly sprayed up the red car in De Walt colours etc and used that. It was a non runner of a car with solid axles front and rear etc..
What do you mean by solid axles?

Mustang Baz

1,528 posts

121 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
Tonymg said:
Remember this for sale @ R G i was thinking of getting it? but i did not because it had no Engine? I so so wish i had @ the time.. never mined..... where is it know?
This stirred up some memories; when it was in at Racing Green, my Tuscan was also there being serviced. I needed a new drivers side wing mirror and so RG simply popped out the glass from the de-walt car and slotted it into mine! Still there to this day smile

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
RichB said:
hat do you mean by solid axles?
Hi Rich,

The car on the fligh deck was a total mock-up. It was a shell only and TVR stuffed scaffold poles through to fit the wheels on, painted on the lights and there was something funny about the glass as well.

That's a bit of a simplification but it wasn't a 'car' as such but cobbled together for the shoot.

For a while it was thought that they used the original red '02' prototype car for this but we now know that this wasn't the case and that red car became the other De Walt promo car that genuinely ran. This is the one that is now back up for sale. I don't know whether it has an engine or not but apparently it didn't used to.

If you look closely at this photo you can see it actually has no lights, they are painted on and the glass is solid, opaque perspex:


jeremyc

12,201 posts

171 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
Almost all of them were out to play at Goodwood this weekend. thumbup (pictures from S6 Devil)











And one from 350Wedge



Edited by jeremyc on Sunday 5th June 18:56

RichB

30,989 posts

171 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
DonkeyApple said:
The car on the fligh deck was a total mock-up. It was a shell only and TVR stuffed scaffold poles through to fit the wheels on...
Got you smile

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
That's all 4 road cars accounted for in one place. They probably didn't manage that at Blackpool.

Plus, the original road prototype was there as well. The De Walt 'promo' racer started life as the original red car.







Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 6th June 11:54

BCA

8,605 posts

144 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
Is the Dewalt car the one Dom at Power has bought??

If so, and I know I may take some flak for suggesting this... I hope he returns it to being 'just' a road car, especially if it ends up red again. I followed that car at silly speeds (70mph+) up the M6 one night, it is utterly amazing, great presence, stunning lines. It is the reason I want one. That very car.

There are a few racers out there for racing, there are other road TVR's that would make great race cars, I just feel this one is better left as a road car? paperbag

I am glad Dom has it now though if so, should be in safe hands and stay in the country. smile Whatever he choses to do with it, I support, but I hope he returns it to being the red press car, it was very special just as it was.

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 5th June 2011 quote quote all
It's the one he was showing pictures of, and was saying raced at Le Mans, but it didn't and it is still up for grabs.

I think someone said that it is available via RG as a project or they will complete it.

It's a good debate as to whether it has more value as the first T440 prototype or as the promo car to the team that took TVR to Le Mans. I think I would keep it with its decals myself.

Tonymg

330 posts

84 months

[news] 
Tuesday 7th June 2011 quote quote all
Hi Chaps yes i would keep it as a promo car as well just to drive to France and around the UK.
Yep it was for sale again @ RG and the guy told me it's just gone for 100k with an engine

I rang them 2 years ago it was up for sale with out an Engine for 27k just ot of my range .....
just show's you what can happen in two years..........


DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Tuesday 7th June 2011 quote quote all
That's good news. I hope it stays in the UK regardless of whether it retains the livery or is converted back.

I imagine that the cost of conversion would be quite high but the cost of converting into a full racer somewhat less?

It would be great if someone like Dom has bought it and it is campaigned on the track. Most of the original racing cars are sitting in collections. Possibly waiting until their age makes them eligiable for some of the gentlemen classes?

Anyone know the whereabouts of the 7/8 racing cars? I think LNT has at least 2, maybe 3 at Ginetta and one of the De Walt Le Mans cars is at Gaydon.

V41LEY

1,892 posts

125 months

[news] 
Friday 10th June 2011 quote quote all
For what it's worth I also think it should be retro-restored to original prototype road car.

V8 GRF

6,804 posts

97 months

[news] 
Monday 25th July 2011 quote quote all
V41LEY said:
For what it's worth I also think it should be retro-restored to original prototype road car.
The original prototype roadcar is this one...



...and that (like most TVR prototypes) no longer exists I'm afraid.

DonkeyApple

17,422 posts

56 months

[news] 
Saturday 27th August 2011 quote quote all
Slowly, as I delve into the history of these cars and manage to speak to more and more of the people who were involved in them in one way or another the picture becomes more clear.

As you will have noted my table of 'facts' has been adjusted a few times to reflect new and confirmed information which has come to light. And I'll continue to do this as I learn and uncover more on this thread.

The snippets gleaned over the last couple of weeks are as follows:

The Typhons were 4.0L engines as under the then FIA regulations that was the largest forced induction capacity allowed in the series that TVR wanted this car to race in. There are also valid arguments that the 4.2 wouldn't give that much more power in the scheme of things but could increase risk of failure.

At around 2001 when the orignal idea the Tuscan R was dropped before production and changed into the T400, this first road going T400 (the red press car, now the De Walt promo vehicle) had the modified rear and 2+2 status but with a 4.0 engine it was felt it wasn't enough to differentiate it from the conventional Tuscans or the Sagaris that was to follow.

As such, they took it out to 4.2 to achieve 440 bhp and renamed it the T440.

At the 2001 or 2002 motorshow both cars were on the TVR stand, the red one badged as a 2+2 T400 and the Fleetwood Bronze one as a 2 seater T440. At that time they were also offering the option of a long range 70L fuel tank or 2 rear seats.

By the following year the T400 concept had gone altogether and the red car was now on the stand as a T440.

In 2003 PW announced the plan to supercharge the T440 and call it the Typhon.

Also by late 2003 the option of either a long range tank or 2 extra seats had gone and the cars were to have both going forward.

So by 2003 the option was the £75k T440R or the £80(5)k Typhon. Same cars, different running gear. They Typhons were to also have traction control.

In 2003 the first customer car, a silver T440 is delivered to LNT.

In 2004 the first customer Typhon (the orange one) is due for delivery but becomes delayed to the point of never being delivered as the supercharger is overheating the exhausts and the sequential box keeps locking up.

By 2004 one of the Reflex Charcoal Typhons was on the motorshow stands sporting the lever for the sequential 6 speed box, although it was not connected up.

There is a dyno print from TVR knocking around somewhere, which I am trying get a copy of, that shows the orange Typhon's engine delivering what is rumoured to be 600 BHP.

Obviously, we all know what happened at TVR during this period and the project and the builds stall, although all the cars are essentially complete.

In 2006 the 2 Reflex Charcoal cars are registered and NS takes one and the other is delivered to a customer. NS had dropped the sequential box and supercharger and had begun to move on with his own car. The Typhoon was announced to the press in 2007. Pretty much confirming that the T440 and Typhon models of PW were over.

The Typhoon was to have the Typhon running gear and manufacture but a different body and was to be priced at £120k.

The orange one remained at the factory, and the new premisis, as it had already been fitted with the SC system and box that NS needed to get working for the Typhoon.

RetroWheels

2,945 posts

158 months

[news] 
Tuesday 30th August 2011 quote quote all
Resuced these items of memorabilia from one of the Bristol Avenue bins..

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