Kerbal Space Program

Author
Discussion

budfox

1,510 posts

128 months

Tuesday 23rd June 2015
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callmedave said:
Previous 'updates' have always downloaded as a completely new game. Copy across your saves, crafts and any mods (making a back at the same time, just in case) and use the new Ksp.exe application you should be fine.
I did that, but still ended up with the same version. Weird, but there we go.

Thanks anyway.

budfox

1,510 posts

128 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Good grief.... How hard is the docking/docking tutorial! I love this game but the fine adjustments to get even close to another vehicle in orbit are proving impossible for me to manage.

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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I found the easiest way to get the hang of docking was to build a vehicle with the docking port on the nose, and RCS thrusters either at both ends of the vehicle, or somewhere near the centre of mass with a decent flywheel to make up for any asymetry. Get within 5km or so of your target, and set its docking port as your target and "control from" your docking port.

Then set the camera to chase view (I think it's V to cycle through camera views), and rotate the view so that it matches the orientation of the RCS controls (I J K L). If you've got a decent SAS or trained pilot set it to point towards the target and then you can really easily tweak the RCS controls to line up perfectly on the target docking port.

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Docking is probably the most difficult skill to master in this game. When I was still learning I couldn't understand the mechanics of why, when I was getting close to the target, it would go whizzing by at goodness knows how many m/s and I would have to start my rendezvous approach all over again. I also believe the docking tutorial is flawed inasmuch that it doesn't get you to use the most convenient or efficient transfer point when planning your burn to make the intercept which makes it more difficult than it should be.

Some things to remember that might help you in your endeavours. To dock with another craft, your orbits need to be pretty much identical, as the more identical your orbits are the slower your closing speed will be. This leads to a conundrum though because if you have near identical orbits but are nowhere near your target it will take forever to close the gap.

I go through a few stages to complete my docking process. The first step is to go for a higher or lower orbit than my target, and this will be determined by whether I am ahead or behind respectively. Once my own orbit is established I will make sure that the two orbits are co-planar by making a burn at either the ascending or descending node, whichever is most convenient.

Next I will adjust my orbit slightly to make sure that part of it is at the same altitude as the target orbit. If I am in a higher orbit, I do a burn at apoapsis to bring my periapsis to the same altitude. Conversely, if I am in a lower orbit I burn at periapsis to get my apoapsis to match

At this point you should be seeing the intersect markers on your orbit showing how far apart the two craft are at closest approach. If I am the craft playing catch up and am in the lower orbit, the markers should be showing the target craft in front of mine at closest approach. Each time the craft complete an orbit and go past the markers, I check the distance between them because at some point the markers will change position and show me as being ahead of the target the next time round. If I do nothing else now at some time round the ensuing orbit I will overtake my target. To prevent this, I make a small correction burn, prograde in this case, to make my orbit slightly bigger until the intersection markers are as close together as I can get them.

The reverse is the case if you are in the higher orbit; the intersection markers will show you as being ahead until you have done enough orbits to allow your target to catch up, when the markers will change position and show you as being behind. The correction burn in this case is retrograde to make your orbit slightly smaller, again just enough to get the two markers as close as you can.

That's the process I follow to complete the initial rendezvous stage, and understanding what's happening through each step helped me enormously when I was struggling to string it all together. The final steps of rendezvous to get you within docking range is another ball game, but if you need any help with that give me a shout.

Of course there are loads of tutorials out there on Youtube which may make way more sense than the drivel I've just posted, so use whatever works for you.



Tycho

11,554 posts

272 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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As usual Scott Manley does a good tutorial on docking on YouTube, well worth subscribing to his channel.

budfox

1,510 posts

128 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Tycho said:
As usual Scott Manley does a good tutorial on docking on YouTube, well worth subscribing to his channel.
Agreed, and I've watched a lot of his stuff.

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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I agree that Scott has posted some very good videos but the problem I had with them when I knew a lot less than I do now is that whilst he tells you what he is doing he doesn't always tell you why he's doing it. The gap that left in my knowledge meant that I could cope if I was following one of his tutorials exactly but didn't give me the tools to resolve problems of my own making or to resolve situations that differed in some respect to the tutorial.

NNH

1,515 posts

131 months

Monday 13th July 2015
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The air seems a lot "thicker" in V1+, and you really need to turn very gently. I don't go much beyond 10-15 degrees of tilt until I'm above 20km.
The heatshield is tucked away in the Aero parts, though you can just about get away with a very shallow entry from orbit without one.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Tuesday 14th July 2015
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I'm usually passing 45 degrees at 20km! Interesting how everyone has a different way to get into orbit now. You really need a heatshield for re-entry, it's not a case of slamming into the atmosphere at any old angle and speed anymore.

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Tuesday 14th July 2015
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In a previous incarnation of KSP, I had several refuelling tanks dotted around parts of the Mun to refuel my hoppers (think of the Eagle craft from Space 1999). Originally I used docking ports but found an easier solution was to just fit my hoppers with a claw. It was then a simple case of just grabbing the tank and refuelling.

Alex@POD

6,133 posts

214 months

Wednesday 15th July 2015
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How do you keep your refuelling station full of fuel? Back when I played (I really need to get back into it), I tried getting a refuelling station in orbit, but I was always using so much fuel to get a payload of fuel to it that it was practically not worth doing...

I was also trying to design a reusable fuel transporter, but only for a giggle as it didn't matter at the time.

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Wednesday 15th July 2015
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Alex@POD said:
I was also trying to design a reusable fuel transporter, but only for a giggle as it didn't matter at the time.
In the previous version I had a 100% reusable tanker space plane that could launch about 3/4 of an orange tank's worth of fuel in to orbit to top up my refueling station, but to get more than that in one hit I gave up on reusable and had a massive multistage booster to get a big tank up to my station.

In version 1 I've only made it as far as one landing on the Mun and a Mininus flyby so far so little need for such things yet. I've got to say I don't find the latest version as compelling to play as previously, I find it's mostly about getting a decent launch and as a result is becoming quite repetitive. I guess I just need to start thinking a bit differently than I used to. I'm thinking an orbital station to transfer crews might make life a bit easier as I can only re-enter capsules at the moment (making all my old science lander designs obsolete) but I've not got as far as the big docking ports yet.

Do most people tend to build launch vehicles from scratch or do you have designs you know are good to get a certain weight in to orbit? I tend to scratch build but think a set of trusted designs might be a better way forward. I also try and design stuff so that a stage falls away just before I reach orbit, meaning I don't end up with loads of orbital debris, but again I think that's making things a bit harder for me.

Alex@POD

6,133 posts

214 months

Wednesday 15th July 2015
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ash73 said:
The latest version has new parts to scan for ore, drill it and refine it into fuel smile
Awesome, that will be a big plus for me as I waste fuel like it's going out of fashion. I have used ship designs that other players used for massive missions and ran out of fuel half way there...

MartG

20,620 posts

203 months

Monday 20th July 2015
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You know Kerbals never walked on the Mün? It's a hoax to make you buy the game. All the pictures provided are CGI and no one ever was witnessed coming back alive. whistle

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Monday 20th July 2015
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Jeb will punch you on the nose if you say that to his face

Tycho

11,554 posts

272 months

Monday 20th July 2015
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MartG said:
You know Kerbals never walked on the Mün? It's a hoax to make you buy the game. All the pictures provided are CGI and no one ever was witnessed coming back alive.whistle
Certainly true with most of my missions....

firemunki

361 posts

130 months

Tuesday 21st July 2015
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OH yeah!

Got into orbit and home again, then made a plane... which finally took off and landed. Then made a jet car, which handles... just.

Now for proper long term orbits and to the mun!

Pentoman

4,814 posts

262 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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Good thread. Haven't read it - am attempting to 'wing it'.

This is my current creation. I'm trying to achieve orbit. Not that well:


davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Monday 27th July 2015
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ash73 said:
Good effort, once you get bored of crashing fit an advanced controller and press the T button.
No need to do that if he's already fitted it with Jeb.

Until you get liquid fuelled engines and fins, it's a bit tricky to do anything apart from going straight up and back down again. However, it's possible. The trick is to get a long burn, not a powerful one - all of the atmosphere effect there is just wasted thrust. If you are getting that much wind that low you can probably put another stage on.

Pentoman

4,814 posts

262 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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davepoth said:
No need to do that if he's already fitted it with Jeb.

Until you get liquid fuelled engines and fins, it's a bit tricky to do anything apart from going straight up and back down again. However, it's possible. The trick is to get a long burn, not a powerful one - all of the atmosphere effect there is just wasted thrust. If you are getting that much wind that low you can probably put another stage on.
Jeb?

I didn't fully understand the bit about atmosphere effect and having another stage.

I have a liquid engine (just above the 6x or 7x solid engines) which I guess is stage 2. It gets me to 200km or so, but I'm far off achieving orbit. Mostly because I can't control the thing to stay pointing one direction. And because I don't know which way to point it, except horiztonal & really fast.

Is there a readout for lateral speed? The main speed readout just feels as if it's vertical speed.