Kerbal Space Program

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davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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Pentoman said:
davepoth said:
No need to do that if he's already fitted it with Jeb.

Until you get liquid fuelled engines and fins, it's a bit tricky to do anything apart from going straight up and back down again. However, it's possible. The trick is to get a long burn, not a powerful one - all of the atmosphere effect there is just wasted thrust. If you are getting that much wind that low you can probably put another stage on.
Jeb?

I didn't fully understand the bit about atmosphere effect and having another stage.

I have a liquid engine (just above the 6x or 7x solid engines) which I guess is stage 2. It gets me to 200km or so, but I'm far off achieving orbit. Mostly because I can't control the thing to stay pointing one direction. And because I don't know which way to point it, except horiztonal & really fast.

Is there a readout for lateral speed? The main speed readout just feels as if it's vertical speed.
Jebediah Kerman - the Kerbal steering the ship. That's his picture in the bottom right.

If you press T, he'll get involved with the steering, dampening the controls and stopping everything from being quite so crash-y. Depending on what things you've got unlocked you can also get him to steer towards some other things too, which is very handy.

The aim of the game (at this stage at least) is getting fuel to orbit as cheaply as possible. Solid fuel boosters are good - up to a limit. By using loads of them you end up forcing your rocket through the lower atmosphere a lot quicker than needed, which is a bit of a waste of fuel. If you want a massively overpowered rocket, liquid fuel is a better bet as you can avoid singeing the nose of your rocket.

To test it, cut your first stage in two, and fire three boosters, followed by another three boosters. I've not tested it, but I am pretty certain you'll get further up that way.

In terms of reaching orbit, it's pretty hard early on in the game because you don't have any decent fins to stabilise you. But the rough technique is to roll the rocket 90 degrees clockwise (heading 090), burn vertically to about 10km, and then slowly pitch the rocket down, ensuring that the difference between the direction of velocity and the direction the nose is pointing doesn't exceed around 5 degrees or so. If you do get too much of a angle between the velocity and the nose at low altitude, the force of the atmosphere will catch the side of the rocket like a sail and you will crash.

Aim to get the rocket roughly horizontal around 50-55km, pointing due east. You should probably run out of solid booster around now, which is good because this is the time that you need a little more control of thrust. Keep thrusting until the apoapsis (Ap on the orbital map, the high point of the orbit) exceeds 70km, which is the edge of the atmosphere. Stop thrusting at this point, and then wait until you get to within a minute of the apoapsis. Orbital mechanics (which are complicated) will tell you that a prograde burn (firing the engine in the direction of travel) has the most effect on the periapsis (the low point of the orbit) at the apoapsis.

So burn at the apoapsis, and keep burning until you are not going to crash into Kerbin any more. That's orbit. I hope you brought enough fuel to get back down again. wink

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Tuesday 28th July 2015
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He's playing the Demo, so there should be enough in the VAB to build a viable rocket to get to orbit.

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Wednesday 5th August 2015
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Got stuck in again last night having not played for a while, still not got that far in version 1.0 yet.

Lifted a station in to Mun orbit last night. Big thing to launch as I've not unlocked the big docking ring yet, i usually add the tanks and engine in orbit. The station/orbiter has a Mk2 capsule return vehicle, hitchiker, science lab, big RCS tank, orange fuel tank and a nuke. Took a Mainsail and 4 Skippers to get the thing in orbit and it burned nearly an entire orange tank getting it to the Mun so I don't think it was a particularly efficient design. Annoyingly I only managed to get it about 15 degrees off equatorial, so will need to burn a load more fuel getting it closer to polar so I can land/recover landers from more of the surface without them wasting fuel.

Next mission will be to launch the lander and another return capsule so I can get all 6 kerbanoughts that haven't yet planted a flag on the Mun down to the surface while getting a load of science from materials bays and goo containers, but I think I'm going to need them to take a load more fuel up too.

Hopefully that will give me enough science to make a similar mission to Minimus a bit easier.






davepoth said:
To test it, cut your first stage in two, and fire three boosters, followed by another three boosters. I've not tested it, but I am pretty certain you'll get further up that way.
Or right click on the boosters in the VAB and limit the thrust, that means they'll burn longer at lower power.

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Monday 10th August 2015
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Having fun reworking some of my SSTO designs to work in 1.0.4 aerodynamics. Here's a link to a thread in the KSP forum for my latest small creation, a one man craft with easy flight characteristics to get to orbit.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/131066...

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

197 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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Not had much time for games of late, but finally downloaded the full version and started over again. There's a lot more in there now, impressed with the career mode. And it's harder to get into orbit than it used to be!

paul_y3k

618 posts

207 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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hmm just restarted in 1.0.4 and struggling with over heating .... even though I've got a heat shield, everything is cooking on return and exploding (Mk1 can --> science jnr --> cpl of goo pods on can) .
I've covered the thing in radiators now but no benefits.

Alex@POD

6,133 posts

214 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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I've finally had my first go in version 1, simply starting again with all the tutorials for now as I forgot what most of the buttons do. I managed to get myself in a nice orbit then reenter the atmosphere, I had kept my whole craft on reentry (all I had left of it anyway) to try and control where I was going to land. Unfortunately I had to decouple before everything exploded, and 15k above the surface there was only water all around... I hope Kerbals can swim!

Great fun though, I can tell I'm going to spend some time on this again now...

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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I've found landing anything on Kerbin beyond a capsule can bit a bit hit and miss. Scientists can take the data from an experiment though so my early craft were flown by an unmanned module with a scientist as a passenger. Grab the data and dump everything but the capsule before re-rentry.

I have since managed to get a bigger craft to re-enter - Mk3 capsule with a small rockomax and 4 science juniors mounted radially, I think it's so wide that there's enough drag to slow it so quickly the heat doesn't build up too badly, although it lost some solar panels and batteries on the way down.

Currently have a Lab orbiting the Mun and 9 Kerbals doing a series of landings to get lots of science and have them all plant a flag for experience. In hindsight I should have had more fuel on the lander (Mk2 lander can with 3 x FL-T200 and 2 science juniors) to allow it to do 2 landings per mission rather than having to return to orbit and refuel each time. 1500m/s dv is a bit tight. Plan is the team all return in Mk3 capsule with the data and I leave the station and lander in Mun orbit for future missions

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 11th August 11:14

DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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Just completed a challenge in the KSP forums - vanilla install i.e. no mods, and then design, build, fly to the Mun, put a Kerbal on the surface, and then return him to Kerbin. No saves, no reverts, no second goes. If you can't do it in your first and only attempt, you fail. Was quite interesting. The only mod that I normally use that I actually missed whilst doing this challenge was the Docking Indicator. Obviously I was able to dock without it, but you forget how much easier that particular mod makes the process.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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RizzoTheRat said:
Or right click on the boosters in the VAB and limit the thrust, that means they'll burn longer at lower power.
Lower power? Heresy!

I didn't know you could do that. biggrin

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Tuesday 11th August 2015
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davepoth said:
Lower power? Heresy!
Sorry, not quite in the spirit of the game is it hehe

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
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Anyone else find they're regularly victims of their own stupidity?

Just tried to 2 missions in one: dock to vessels in Kerbin orbit, and rescue a stranded kerbonought who's in an inclined orbit reaching out as far as the mun.

Launched my rescue ship, consisting of a Mk1 pod, a probodyne to fly it and a docking port, in to Kerbin orbit, then launched a separate small probe with a docking port. Docked the 2 together, sent the probe to burn up in the atmosphere, and set off in the rescue ship to chase the stranded kerbonaught. Got in to a matching orbit...and then realised Jeb had decided to come along for the ride so the pod was full. D'Oh banghead

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Sunday 16th August 21:18

callmedave

2,686 posts

144 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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RizzoTheRat said:
Anyone else find they're regularly victims of their own stupidity?

Just tried to 2 missions in one: dock to vessels in Kerbin orbit, and rescue a stranded kerbonought who's in an inclined orbit reaching out as far as the mun.

Launched my rescue ship, consisting of a Mk1 pod, a probodyne to fly it and a docking port, in to Kerbin orbit, then launched a separate small probe with a docking port. Docked the 2 together, sent the probe to burn up in the atmosphere, and set off in the rescue ship to chase the stranded kerbonaught. Got in to a matching orbit...and then realised Jeb had decided to come along for the ride so the pod was full. D'Oh banghead

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Sunday 16th August 21:18
YES! but it leads you to take more care before launch. I have a procedure now before launching that check crew in correct slots, check power etc.


My laptop broke last month so have not been able to play, but getting a new desktop unit (pretty beefy too) so will be back to creating new explosions with impressive framerates soon! smile

Alex@POD

6,133 posts

214 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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I'm having a frustrating time at the moment (at the very beginning of the career), where I need to complete a couple of contracts to unlock more research, but I can't seem to build a ship stable enough to launch. Every single one flips round at some point.
I managed to get a ship at 95k (inadvertently, I was going for the 17k record) previously, but I simply can't seem to do it again...

callmedave

2,686 posts

144 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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Alex@POD said:
I'm having a frustrating time at the moment (at the very beginning of the career), where I need to complete a couple of contracts to unlock more research, but I can't seem to build a ship stable enough to launch. Every single one flips round at some point.
I managed to get a ship at 95k (inadvertently, I was going for the 17k record) previously, but I simply can't seem to do it again...
Post a pick so we can tell you why its all wrong. biggrin

if it flips, you could be going too fast and giving it too much angle of attack.

my rule is max 200 m/s up to 10,000m
start to turn straight after lift off, but keep pointing in the green circle. i.e. just a small amount of change.

10,000 -25,000 slowly increase speed to around 600 m/s still turning.
after 25,000 just gun it, max thrust until your apoapsis is where you want it (get it over 70,000 to escape the atmosphere)


DIW35

4,145 posts

199 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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Rockets flipping can be for a couple of reasons, or a combination thereof. Too much drag at the top of the rocket, lack of stabilising fins at the bottom, too much thrust. Without a pic of your creation it's difficult to surmise what your specific problem might be, but have a look at the areas I've mentioned.

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

197 months

Monday 17th August 2015
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RizzoTheRat said:
Anyone else find they're regularly victims of their own stupidity?
Oh yes. And not just in Kerbal-land either headache

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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More stupidity last night...

Munar resupply mission. Reasonably large payload (2 Mk3 return capsules and a new lander as the original's rubbish) with an orange tank and a nuke to transfer it to the Mun. Booster got it in to 100km orbit perfectly...and then I accidentally jettisoned the transfer stage. D'Oh!

Alex@POD

6,133 posts

214 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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Too much thrust might be my issue then, I have almost nothing to build from so my ship is simply a command pod, decoupler, some small fuel tanks and a liquid engine, with some fins around the bottom and a parachute at the top. I'm not using boosters as I can't jettison them, so the initial boost is cancelled out by the extra drag further along.

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Tuesday 18th August 2015
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Throttle back a bit to keep it below about 200-250m/s until you hit 10km, if ou're going too quick atmospheric drag can cause some serious issues.

I did the early altitude missions with solid boosters and reduced the amount of fuel and thrust in the VAB before launch, they're a lot lighter and cheaper than liquid rockets, but you need to rely on fins or torque to steer them.

If you're not precious about using mods, try installing Kerbal Engineer Redux, it gives you some really useful readouts such as Thrust to Weight Ratio and dV for each stage.