Discussion
Hehe, motion sickness could be an issue.
But if I've driven on a car sim all day and then go drive my real car it suddenly feels REALLY forceful, like it's an F1 car. My brain has adapted somewhat I suppose, to not having the forces there despite thinking I have visually.
This effect disappears within a few moments though.
Your brain adapts quite nicely.
As per latency, clearly some issues... but if they really want 100fps+ at 4k to make this 'perfect', we'll be waiting another 5 years.
That video looks ok to me. Yes it's low res, but if DK2 is better again and the final release a bit better again, then I won't have a huge problem with it.
I remember playing computer games in low res all the time. Big fat jaggies streaking across objects due to no AA filtering and huge pixels. Etc etc.
By all accounts if you fill in with a few more pixels ala DK2, and then really focus on making those pixels you do have really good ones (not just stretched out ones ala 4k games today), then I'd be very happy indeed.
Further, it's the immersion that you're getting with this. If you want to look at nice pictures buy a big monitor, but for now VR is gonna be limited but it's strengths in immersion into the virtual world will easily offset a slightly blurry look in my view.
If we wait till everything is perfect we'll have all died of old age.
Release it already, if it's worthless in 2 years so be it. Welcome to the world of computer/gaming peripherals.
Dave
But if I've driven on a car sim all day and then go drive my real car it suddenly feels REALLY forceful, like it's an F1 car. My brain has adapted somewhat I suppose, to not having the forces there despite thinking I have visually.
This effect disappears within a few moments though.
Your brain adapts quite nicely.
As per latency, clearly some issues... but if they really want 100fps+ at 4k to make this 'perfect', we'll be waiting another 5 years.
That video looks ok to me. Yes it's low res, but if DK2 is better again and the final release a bit better again, then I won't have a huge problem with it.
I remember playing computer games in low res all the time. Big fat jaggies streaking across objects due to no AA filtering and huge pixels. Etc etc.
By all accounts if you fill in with a few more pixels ala DK2, and then really focus on making those pixels you do have really good ones (not just stretched out ones ala 4k games today), then I'd be very happy indeed.
Further, it's the immersion that you're getting with this. If you want to look at nice pictures buy a big monitor, but for now VR is gonna be limited but it's strengths in immersion into the virtual world will easily offset a slightly blurry look in my view.
If we wait till everything is perfect we'll have all died of old age.
Release it already, if it's worthless in 2 years so be it. Welcome to the world of computer/gaming peripherals.
Dave
This seems like a good post too, with some follow on links..
The phenemon I was trying to describe is judder, near the bottom of the article. You can turn your head quite fast and your eyes even faster...that van mean you need crazy high refresh rates to get rid of judder.
http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/454559-valves-mi...
The phenemon I was trying to describe is judder, near the bottom of the article. You can turn your head quite fast and your eyes even faster...that van mean you need crazy high refresh rates to get rid of judder.
http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/454559-valves-mi...
OK finally found the original blog posts I was after!
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/why-virtual-...
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/why-virtual-...
Irrotational said:
This seems like a good post too, with some follow on links..
The phenemon I was trying to describe is judder, near the bottom of the article. You can turn your head quite fast and your eyes even faster...that van mean you need crazy high refresh rates to get rid of judder.
http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/454559-valves-mi...
Judder will probably be a problem for any large FOV then. Big half-dome with projectors, or a small screen right up near the eye.The phenemon I was trying to describe is judder, near the bottom of the article. You can turn your head quite fast and your eyes even faster...that van mean you need crazy high refresh rates to get rid of judder.
http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/454559-valves-mi...
Carmack seemed to cover all that stuff off with ways to make it better.
I suppose one way would be to render more than you need (wider FOV) and then at least you could account for pure rotation transforms quite quickly by just offsetting the actual rendering crop.
Doing that for actual head movement offsets would be no use.
I'm sure it's all been figured out by very bright people though. And once again, if you do any number of weird tests with even nice screens today you can get weird behaviours, like frame tearing. Ghosting, etc etc.
Truth is looking at a little square box with an image on it is the biggest immersion killer going. And even then it has lots of technical issues you could call out that spoil the immersion in games (like really low dynamic range output with 255 instances of brightness)
We can pull apart the Oculus all day long but just like every tech, we'll just have to live with some short comings as they slowly get resolved.
The single main thing it offers is immersion and that is what would make me buy one as soon as they come out.
It's gonna make games feel more like you're there, and more realistic, than adding more pixels to a floating square window in your living room is going to do.
Have to agree with Whippy, immersion is going to be the key. Come on, these are the first baby steps to all those fully immersive environments that we see in the Sci-Fi movies so the more investment that is made in this stuff, the better as far as I am concerned.
As for the limited market, yes at the moment it may be nerds\geeks who are getting excited over this stuff but if\when they iron out some of the issues and this takes off, I suspect the market will be huge. After all even "normal" people want to experience the Matrix and I suspect that is what FB are banking on.
As for the limited market, yes at the moment it may be nerds\geeks who are getting excited over this stuff but if\when they iron out some of the issues and this takes off, I suspect the market will be huge. After all even "normal" people want to experience the Matrix and I suspect that is what FB are banking on.
Wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the Alien Isolation game thread. Either way, if you want immersion, it looks like the Rift and Isolation really pull you in http://www.wired.com/2014/07/alien-isolation-oculu...
Having just bought myself a reasonable graphics card, I found myself in the market for a racing sim.
The killer being, knowing that the DV2 is out (I think?) and that it'll work with the likes of iRacing... at 1080p.
Someone please tell me why I shouldn't make a try for one of the dev kits? Because I really, really need VR sim racing in my life!
The killer being, knowing that the DV2 is out (I think?) and that it'll work with the likes of iRacing... at 1080p.
Someone please tell me why I shouldn't make a try for one of the dev kits? Because I really, really need VR sim racing in my life!
judas said:
the real reason I believe is that he knows Facebook will end up going the way of MySpace, so while he has the opportunity he's picking up companies that actually make something with real potential and getting them for a (relative) low cost and a pile of ultimately worthless stock.
Anyhow, I've just picked up a DK1 from fleabay and even with its low resolution it's amazing. The difference between having a 2D window view into a game and actually being inside the game is mind blowing
Just need to get over the whole motion sickness thing now... 
I'm pleased someone else agrees with me re: the direction of FB!Anyhow, I've just picked up a DK1 from fleabay and even with its low resolution it's amazing. The difference between having a 2D window view into a game and actually being inside the game is mind blowing
Just need to get over the whole motion sickness thing now... Also, I'm keen on picking up a Dev Kit... are they really worth the outlay?
Interesting tech from nVidia > light field displays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ
although resolution is very low in their prototype..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI1IzbveEQ
although resolution is very low in their prototype..
THX said:
I'm pleased someone else agrees with me re: the direction of FB!
Also, I'm keen on picking up a Dev Kit... are they really worth the outlay?
Don't forget that it isn't a sunk cost. Also, I'm keen on picking up a Dev Kit... are they really worth the outlay?
I bought mine for £300 and sold it a few weeks later for £280.
£20 to try it out? Absolutely worth it
ajprice said:
Wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the Alien Isolation game thread. Either way, if you want immersion, it looks like the Rift and Isolation really pull you in http://www.wired.com/2014/07/alien-isolation-oculu...
Unfortunately it was just a prototype and the full game won't support the Rift (or VR full stop presumably) http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-07-alien...
Our DK2 arrive this morning, waiting to download some demos as a lot of the DK1 demos don't even recognise the DK2, predictably.
Giant pixels are still a problem, although the FOV seems a bit higher with the larger eye lenses.
Update: Virtually no existing DK1 demo works with the DK2 without rebuilding their projects.
Giant pixels are still a problem, although the FOV seems a bit higher with the larger eye lenses.
Update: Virtually no existing DK1 demo works with the DK2 without rebuilding their projects.
Edited by scorp on Friday 25th July 04:10
trooperiziz said:
scorp said:
Giant pixels are still a problem,
That's disappointing to hear, but not unexpected. Can you post up some proper thoughts once you have had a good play around
The pixels are smaller than the DK1, with text being easier to read. One thing that is noticeable is the RED pixels on the OLED screen, mostly because they make a noticable matrix of dots compared to green/blue, this must be something to do with OLED technology were the red cells are much brighter and to compensate need to be made smaller which is noticeable in the centre area were the screen is in perfect focus. You do ignore it after a while though.
Editted: Turns out its caused by a pentile matrix display, similar to Galaxy S3 phones.
The optics are different too, using larger lenses which seem to give you higher FOV but also increases chromatic distortion near the edges, I had to do some calibration for my exact eye dimensions to mostly make this problem kind of go away. There is a new configuration tool which does this visually so not a big deal, it saves the settings to a personal profile too so it only needs doing once per person if it's needed.
The head tracking, higher frame rate (75hz now) is very good, although it screws up if you put a hand infront of the HMD or if you look behind you as the camera needs a full view of the front of the headset to be able to measure its position.
The new monitor driver is also nice, no need to extend desktops or change resolution of your monitors, DK2 demos can now run a window on your main display and full screen DK2 HMD at the same time with no windows desktop mode shenanigans
Edited by scorp on Friday 25th July 12:39
Edited by scorp on Tuesday 29th July 06:11
scorp said:
The new monitor driver is also nice, no need to extend desktops or change resolution of your monitors, DK2 demos can now run a window on your main display and full screen DK2 HMD at the same time with no windows desktop mode shenanigans
That's good news! With my DK1 I basically ran my PC as Oculus only while I had it, because I couldn't be arsed with the faffing around.I was about 48 hours late on the ordering, so no idea when mine will arrive.
I'm equally dissapointed about the cost of the Unity engine - it's free for the basic version, but OR support isn't included in that, and the full whack version that does have support is mega-money. Best bet seems to be the Unreal engine, but not so keen on that. But for $19 (upfront, or monthly if you want all the updates) seems to be the only option...
I'm equally dissapointed about the cost of the Unity engine - it's free for the basic version, but OR support isn't included in that, and the full whack version that does have support is mega-money. Best bet seems to be the Unreal engine, but not so keen on that. But for $19 (upfront, or monthly if you want all the updates) seems to be the only option...
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